Finding a LH/Switch hitting OFer

[ILMOU]

The only way we trade Danks is either if the Sox pick up a ton of salary (um, lol) or bring back a bad contract in return.

 

Tell me which of those you prefer, and then I will consider a proposal containing the idea that John Danks won't be back next as "serious".

 

The Sox history shows the biggest possibility is that the Sox do exactly what is bolded above, as they have shown a history to do when a guy isn't a problem in the clubhouse in addition to sucking.

 

I'm saying that he will be back in '15, but potentially he can become tradeable again, even if some money has to go along with him. By Memorial Day, he'll have around $24M remaining on the deal. He may be attractive at $15-18M for that time frame if he's performing well enough.

[BlackSox13]

Yeah people need to realize that no one actually wants Danks, we are most likely stuck with that contract.

 

I wish I could tell you what Ruben Amaro is thinking, but I'm fairly sure he doesn't even know. That team and farm system is such a mess. The only thing I could say that would make the Tank trade make sense is that the Phillies are indeed LH heavy at the top of their order, so its possible that a new face that hits RH would make some sense for them from that standpoint.

Agreed. I am not expecting Danks to be traded. I think the best Sox fans can hope for is that Danks pitches well and is traded in June/July next year or that he pitches well for a contending White Sox team and could be traded after next season.

 

As for Brown. I just read an article that projected Brown to make between 1.25-2M in 2015 while Tank is projected to make around 4.4M so given the Phillies payroll situation, that trade might not be all that realistic. Plus, in AL honest I think Tank has more value than Brown seeing as how bad Brown's numbers were last year. Uhgg were they bad.

 

Might be better off not even looking into Brown to be honest.

 

I really like the idea raBBit has of Brandon Belt. Not sure if he will be available or at what price but the idea is a good one to ponder.

Edited October 13, 2014 by StRoostifer

[LDF]

I'm saying that he will be back in '15, but potentially he can become tradeable again, even if some money has to go along with him. By Memorial Day, he'll have around $24M remaining on the deal. He may be attractive at $15-18M for that time frame if he's performing well enough.

 

with all due respect, Dank can't be traded with that scenario. the only way it might

be done if we accept a huge contract or 2 in rtn.

[BlackSox13]

with all due respect, Dank can't be traded with that scenario. the only way it might

be done if we accept a huge contract or 2 in rtn.

I don't know man. IMO, its possible but I admit the stars must align first.

 

1- Danks has to pitch well.

 

2- a team must be kind of desperate due to unfortunate injury to a starter, which does happen.

 

3- that team would have to have some room in the payroll to take on 50-80% of Danks contract.

 

4- the Sox would have to be willing to take whatever as far as prospect(s) go.

 

I do think Memorial Day is possible but mid to late June is much more probable, assuming Danks is or still is pitching well.

 

 

 

[TheFutureIsNear]

Agreed. I am not expecting Danks to be traded. I think the best Sox fans can hope for is that Danks pitches well and is traded in June/July next year or that he pitches well for a contending White Sox team and could be traded after next season.

 

As for Brown. I just read an article that projected Brown to make between 1.25-2M in 2015 while Tank is projected to make around 4.4M so given the Phillies payroll situation, that trade might not be all that realistic. Plus, in AL honest I think Tank has more value than Brown seeing as how bad Brown's numbers were last year. Uhgg were they bad.

 

Might be better off not even looking into Brown to be honest.

 

I really like the idea raBBit has of Brandon Belt. Not sure if he will be available or at what price but the idea is a good one to ponder.

 

Well he wouldn't be very easy to get if he was good last year now would he lol? He was the #4 prospect in all of baseball just 3 years ago and hit .270 with 27 HR's last year in his 1st full season in the majors...he's for sure not perfect and I'm not even saying he's a sure thing, but I'd say he's definitely worth a shot. This is why my original offer of Johnson and Thompson works a lot better, they are 2 pieces we can definitely do without imo and make sense for the Phillies who have absolutely 0 young talent.

[BlackSox13]

Well he wouldn't be very easy to get if he was good last year now would he lol? He was the #4 prospect in all of baseball just 3 years ago and hit .270 with 27 HR's last year in his 1st full season in the majors...he's for sure not perfect and I'm not even saying he's a sure thing, but I'd say he's definitely worth a shot. This is why my original offer of Johnson and Thompson works a lot better, they are 2 pieces we can definitely do without imo and make sense for the Phillies who have absolutely 0 young talent.

In the scenerio you speak of , it makes more sense. I'm not sure how interested Philly would be in Johnson though. His stock took a huge hit in 2015. Might have to offer up someone like, Beck to go with Thompson?

 

From what I've read, Philly is desperate to shed payroll. I wonder just how much value Lee actually has given a recent injury, his salary, his age, only one year left on his contract and the fact Philly is desperate to open up some payroll. I would take a chance on Lee for year if the Phillies expectations were reasonable. I'm only curious due to the Sox desire to contend and the fact its likely Lee becomes a FA after 2015.

[caulfield12]

If you're not getting a subsidy for Lee's deal, that would blow almost 65-70% of your "payroll increase" on one pitcher...and leave you short 2 bats and 2 arms in the bullpen.

 

It's a tough situation for Hahn. It'a almost like he has to use or leverage those initial signings to get the last 3-5 pieces in place. And a lot of players are going to be skeptical until they know the White Sox are close to being "all in" on competing in 2015.

 

Now maybe you can get a Rasmus, or certainly Kendrys Morales, whose value is on the decline...but I find it hard to imagine that guys like Sandoval/Ramirez/Victor Martinez would be all that interested in the Sox unless we blew the other offers out of the water, which doesn't seem very likely with our recent FA history (other than Adam Dunn and the Abreu deal).

[TheFutureIsNear]

In the scenerio you speak of , it makes more sense. I'm not sure how interested Philly would be in Johnson though. His stock took a huge hit in 2015. Might have to offer up someone like, Beck to go with Thompson?

 

From what I've read, Philly is desperate to shed payroll. I wonder just how much value Lee actually has given a recent injury, his salary, his age, only one year left on his contract and the fact Philly is desperate to open up some payroll. I would take a chance on Lee for year if the Phillies expectations were reasonable. I'm only curious due to the Sox desire to contend and the fact its likely Lee becomes a FA after 2015.

 

I just think Johnson still has to have SOME value. There's no way his stuff that made him a top 100 prospect just vanished in 1 year. He's too young for that, some team would take a gamble on him just like we would on Brown after the year he had. But Beck is expendable imo so if he got the deal done I would do it.

 

Ehh no thanks on Lee. That elbow scares me. Now Papelbon? Yeah I think it would make a whole lot of sense for us to listen. The fans hate him there too so there's even more reason for the front office to move him. They were trying pretty desperately to get rid of him at the deadline to no avail. No idea what a Papelbon and Brown package would be though. Carlos Sanchez, Chris Beck, Trayce Thompson, and Chris Bassit? IDK that doesn't really seem like enough, but this is s*** throwing at its finest.

Edited October 14, 2014 by TheFutureIsNear

[Balta1701]

I just think Johnson still has to have SOME value. There's no way his stuff that made him a top 100 prospect just vanished in 1 year. He's too young for that, some team would take a gamble on him just like we would on Brown after the year he had. But Beck is expendable imo so if he got the deal done I would do it.

 

Ehh no thanks on Lee. That elbow scares me. Now Papelbon? Yeah I think it would make a whole lot of sense for us to listen. The fans hate him there too so there's even more reason for the front office to move him. They were trying pretty desperately to get rid of him at the deadline to no avail. No idea what a Papelbon and Brown package would be though. Carlos Sanchez, Chris Beck, Trayce Thompson, and Chris Bassit? IDK that doesn't really seem like enough, but this is s*** throwing at its finest.

Johnson has absolutely no trade value based on his performance this season. None whatsoever. He's a DFA candidate in the eyes of every trade partner, if someone really liked him they just have to wait a few months.

[Chicago White Sox]

Johnson has absolutely no trade value based on his performance this season. None whatsoever. He's a DFA candidate in the eyes of every trade partner, if someone really liked him they just have to wait a few months.

DFA candidate? Dude has options left. What in the world are you talking about?

[Balta1701]

DFA candidate? Dude has options left. What in the world are you talking about?

If he's as bad as he was last year and shows no improvement with his fastball next year he won't be worth a 40 man spot.

[TheFutureIsNear]

Johnson has absolutely no trade value based on his performance this season. None whatsoever. He's a DFA candidate in the eyes of every trade partner, if someone really liked him they just have to wait a few months.

 

Lol no. Not even close. 120 bad innings can't erase several very good years and a top 100 prospect status. Plus if he's healthy and his head is right he's MLB ready. He has some value, not a lot, but some value.

[Chicago White Sox]

If he's as bad as he was last year and shows no improvement with his fastball next year he won't be worth a 40 man spot.

Those are some big ifs to be making a year out. And let's be honest, plenty of garbage has a found a way to stick on the 40 man roster longer than their shelf life. There is little doubt IMO that Johnson will be given an entire year to rebound, former top 100 prospects aren't discarded so quickly.

[BlackSox13]

I just think Johnson still has to have SOME value. There's no way his stuff that made him a top 100 prospect just vanished in 1 year. He's too young for that, some team would take a gamble on him just like we would on Brown after the year he had. But Beck is expendable imo so if he got the deal done I would do it.

 

Ehh no thanks on Lee. That elbow scares me. Now Papelbon? Yeah I think it would make a whole lot of sense for us to listen. The fans hate him there too so there's even more reason for the front office to move him. They were trying pretty desperately to get rid of him at the deadline to no avail. No idea what a Papelbon and Brown package would be though. Carlos Sanchez, Chris Beck, Trayce Thompson, and Chris Bassit? IDK that doesn't really seem like enough, but this is s*** throwing at its finest.

For one season, I would take a chance on Lee in a trade that involved Danks. There are some potential upsides to consider...

 

1- a healthy Lee is a huge improvement over Danks, granted that's an if.

 

2- Lee has to pitch 200 innings for his 2016 option to vest. If the Sox contend, he pitches and if not they can shut him down and let him walk after the season.

 

3- Lee would only add roughly 10M more to the payroll leaving plenty of room to get higher salary players to fill holes.

 

4- Since its likely Lee would only pitch for the Sox in 2015, Lee not only helps the Sox to contending but helps bridge the gap to one of the young Sox pitchers that will hopefully be ready for 2016.

 

I see Lee as a one year commitment kind of guy and a chance for the Sox to rid Danks contract. I admit, its the optimal plan but given the pitching FA market, its not the worst plan either.

 

As for the Papelbon/ Brown proposal. I think you're offering too much to be honest, maybe try substituting Bassitt's name with E.Johnson?I know Papelbon had a statistically good season but 13M for a 33 year old closer is a lot. Isn't Papelbon another guy Philly tried to unload at the deadline and couldn't? High asking price? Lost value due to high salary? Maybe Philly would kick in a few bucks to help offset the expense...

[nickofypres]

For one season, I would take a chance on Lee in a trade that involved Danks. There are some potential upsides to consider...

 

1- a healthy Lee is a huge improvement over Danks, granted that's an if.

 

2- Lee has to pitch 200 innings for his 2016 option to vest. If the Sox contend, he pitches and if not they can shut him down and let him walk after the season.

 

3- Lee would only add roughly 10M more to the payroll leaving plenty of room to get higher salary players to fill holes.

 

4- Since its likely Lee would only pitch for the Sox in 2015, Lee not only helps the Sox to contending but helps bridge the gap to one of the young Sox pitchers that will hopefully be ready for 2016.

 

I see Lee as a one year commitment kind of guy and a chance for the Sox to rid Danks contract. I admit, its the optimal plan but given the pitching FA market, its not the worst plan either.

As for the Papelbon/ Brown proposal. I think you're offering too much to be honest, maybe try substituting Bassitt's name with E.Johnson?I know Papelbon had a statistically good season but 13M for a 33 year old closer is a lot. Isn't Papelbon another guy Philly tried to unload at the deadline and couldn't? High asking price? Lost value due to high salary? Maybe Philly would kick in a few bucks to help offset the expense...

 

I kind of actually like that idea, StRoostifer. But why would Philly do that?

 

 

Edited October 14, 2014 by woods of ypres

[BlackSox13]

I kind of actually like that idea, StRoostifer. But why would Philly do that?

Just to clarify, I meant its not the optimal plan. Sorry for missing that.

 

Philly is desperate to shed some payroll so they can have some space to work with. I'm guessing the Sox would have to send a few prospects with Danks although I have no idea how many or what value each would/should have. Danks + prospects for Lee saves the Phillies 10.5M and gives them some room to work with. If I remember right their preference was to trade Lee but teams were calling about Hamel's which is a guy they would rather keep, unless that's changed since July/August.

 

Like I said earlier, I'm just throwing s*** out there since its a dead time for trade rumors with the playoffs still going on. Just trying to think outside the box.

[nickofypres]

Understood. Thank you for clarifying.

[TheFutureIsNear]

For one season, I would take a chance on Lee in a trade that involved Danks. There are some potential upsides to consider...

 

1- a healthy Lee is a huge improvement over Danks, granted that's an if.

 

2- Lee has to pitch 200 innings for his 2016 option to vest. If the Sox contend, he pitches and if not they can shut him down and let him walk after the season.

 

3- Lee would only add roughly 10M more to the payroll leaving plenty of room to get higher salary players to fill holes.

 

4- Since its likely Lee would only pitch for the Sox in 2015, Lee not only helps the Sox to contending but helps bridge the gap to one of the young Sox pitchers that will hopefully be ready for 2016.

 

I see Lee as a one year commitment kind of guy and a chance for the Sox to rid Danks contract. I admit, its the optimal plan but given the pitching FA market, its not the worst plan either.

 

As for the Papelbon/ Brown proposal. I think you're offering too much to be honest, maybe try substituting Bassitt's name with E.Johnson?I know Papelbon had a statistically good season but 13M for a 33 year old closer is a lot. Isn't Papelbon another guy Philly tried to unload at the deadline and couldn't? High asking price? Lost value due to high salary? Maybe Philly would kick in a few bucks to help offset the expense...

 

It's just my personal feeling that Lee is done. I could be way off on that, but he just looked and acted like a guy who knew he was done at the end of last year. He had nothing left even after spending like 30 days on the DL in August. Plus, the track record for 36/37 year old starters succeeding isn't exactly great. Like I said, it's my personal gut feeling with nothing to really back it up, but I wouldn't take the chance on wasting the $10M on Lee.

[Eminor3rd]

Danks is terrible and his market value is negative. All of the proposals you guys are coming up with where it seems like a really good idea for us won't happen because you're right -- it would be a really good idea for us and thus a bad idea for the other team.

 

If we're gonna move Danks, it's going to be for a similarly problematic guy. One where you really have to squint to see the upside. Because that's what Danks is.

[witesoxfan]

Danks is terrible and his market value is negative. All of the proposals you guys are coming up with where it seems like a really good idea for us won't happen because you're right -- it would be a really good idea for us and thus a bad idea for the other team.

 

If we're gonna move Danks, it's going to be for a similarly problematic guy. One where you really have to squint to see the upside. Because that's what Danks is.

 

Yeah, Andre Ethier

 

He's coming off a similar season to Danks, he's owed more money, he's locked up longer, and he's older. The Dodgers pick up $12 mill of the final year of the deal, which still saves them money overall and cuts the Sox cost from $18 mill to $8.5 mill ($6 mill plus $2.5 mill buyout).

 

Frankly, to me, that's the deal that makes the most sense if there's any deal that makes sense.

[Eminor3rd]

Yeah, Andre Ethier

 

He's coming off a similar season to Danks, he's owed more money, he's locked up longer, and he's older. The Dodgers pick up $12 mill of the final year of the deal, which still saves them money overall and cuts the Sox cost from $18 mill to $8.5 mill ($6 mill plus $2.5 mill buyout).

 

Frankly, to me, that's the deal that makes the most sense if there's any deal that makes sense.

 

The only issue is, if you're the Dodgers, can you do better? Sure, Ethier is a black hole, BUT if you're going to eat most of the money anyway (which is essentially what you're doing by accepting Danks' contract), wouldn't you rather dump him for some single A live arm that could be a reliever? I'd be shocked if there wasn't some team, somewhere, that would take Ethier at the cost of say, $10m over three years, and give up something that at least has some prayer of turning into a cost-controlled RP.

 

Unfortunately, the Dodgers need a bad starter about as much as they need a bad outfielder. Danks is extra bad because it doesn't even make sense to send him to the bullpen because of his poor velocity and neutral platoon splits.

[BlackSox13]

It's just my personal feeling that Lee is done. I could be way off on that, but he just looked and acted like a guy who knew he was done at the end of last year. He had nothing left even after spending like 30 days on the DL in August. Plus, the track record for 36/37 year old starters succeeding isn't exactly great. Like I said, it's my personal gut feeling with nothing to really back it up, but I wouldn't take the chance on wasting the $10M on Lee.

I get what your saying. There's no doubt Lee comes with a risk factor and even I wouldn't count on him for the entire season, more hoping than anything.

 

I am still curious about Domonic Brown and what it would cost to grab him. If he could bounce back he would be perfect for the DH spot.

 

Yeah, Andre Ethier

 

He's coming off a similar season to Danks, he's owed more money, he's locked up longer, and he's older. The Dodgers pick up $12 mill of the final year of the deal, which still saves them money overall and cuts the Sox cost from $18 mill to $8.5 mill ($6 mill plus $2.5 mill buyout).

 

Frankly, to me, that's the deal that makes the most sense if there's any deal that makes sense.

It only makes sense if the Dodgers are willing to spend send that 12M to the Sox when the time comes. 18M for each of the next two seasons is expensive for Ethier don't ya think?

 

I like the idea of grabbing Ethier, just not wild about paying him 18M for the next two years.

[Balta1701]

I get what your saying. There's no doubt Lee comes with a risk factor and even I wouldn't count on him for the entire season, more hoping than anything.

 

I am still curious about Domonic Brown and what it would cost to grab him. If he could bounce back he would be perfect for the DH spot.

 

 

It only makes sense if the Dodgers are willing to spend send that 12M to the Sox when the time comes. 18M for each of the next two seasons is expensive for Ethier don't ya think?

 

I like the idea of grabbing Ethier, just not wild about paying him 18M for the next two years.

It also matters whether the Dodgers really are looking for a significant payroll cut. If they need to drop payroll, then it will be really hard for them to take Danks back and send money along.

[BlackSox13]

It also matters whether the Dodgers really are looking for a significant payroll cut. If they need to drop payroll, then it will be really hard for them to take Danks back and send money along.

Agreed. Taking Danks and sending money with Ethier would negate a nice size portion of the potential savings as far as the Dodgers are concerned. Assuming they really do want to shed 50M off of next years payroll.

 

On the flip side they do have Hanley and Uribe's salaries coming off the books so if they nickel and dime here and there it can happen.

 

So, instead the Sox send Alexei and Gillaspie to LA for Ethier and a low level prospect. Then the Sox put Semien at 3B, sign Hanley to play SS, sign Melky to play LF with Ethier being the 4th OF/ DH. The rest of the money goes into the bullpen and we all hold hands while skipping down the street together into the 2015 playoffs.

[Eminor3rd]

Agreed. Taking Danks and sending money with Ethier would negate a nice size portion of the potential savings as far as the Dodgers are concerned. Assuming they really do want to shed 50M off of next years payroll.

 

On the flip side they do have Hanley and Uribe's salaries coming off the books so if they nickel and dime here and there it can happen.

 

So, instead the Sox send Alexei and Gillaspie to LA for Ethier and a low level prospect. Then the Sox put Semien at 3B, sign Hanley to play SS, sign Melky to play LF with Ethier being the 4th OF/ DH. The rest of the money goes into the bullpen and we all hold hands while skipping down the street together into the 2015 playoffs.

 

I know you're being whimsical (hence and ), but Hanley is not a SS at this point. We wouldn't be able to handle that, IMO. Also, Alexei and Gillaspie better net us more than Etheri and a low level prospect, haha.