Three YEPS and three NOPES

[Eminor3rd]

A different take on an offseason thread that I hope will invite some thoughtful responses.

 

The rules: First name three moves the Sox absolutely need to MAKE this offseason, then name three moves the Sox absolutely need to AVOID this offseason. To wit:

 

Three YEPS:

 

1. Sign Russell Martin at anything up to 4yr/$60m -- He will NOT ever be as good at the plate as he was this year, but that's okay because he was a MONSTER this year and doesn't need to be to make the deal worth it. He has a career high 145 wRC+ this season, but all we need from him is about 100, and his career line is 106. THat would make him an elite defender with a league average bat who also happens to bring Veteran Leadership™ to the table. Even if his bat begins to decline immediately, game-calling and pitch-framing tend to improve with experience, and having that kind of glove back there witha bat that doesn't kill you is worth its weight in blood diamonds.

 

Admittedly, this was a much more attractive option when I first started clamoring for it midseason before the national media caught the scent, and he's going to be expensive as a result, but when you take a look around at the free agent classes of the next couple years and try to find ones that are going to pay dividends both immediately AND going forward, this is one of the few that jump out. And if paying Martin $14m a year is your big money acquisition, you're not really risking much, especially with our current payroll commitments being so low.

 

2. Trade Alexei Ramirez, probably to the Yankees -- I love Alexei. I really do. I have bragged about Alexei being the most underrated player in the game to all my friends for about four years now. But there are two reasons that it's time to move on: (1) he will be 33 years old, meaning that his defense will most likely decline as soon as next season, meaning that he will NOT be the player he is today when we need him the most a couple years down the line, and (2) we have a glut of MI prospects in the advanced levels of our minors, all of whom need a shot to stick at the majors. It is the position we are best able to fill with AT LEAST a stopgap. The market will be ripe this offseason as several big names will be looking for a SS, most notably the Yankees (who not only want a SS, but also one that will be an immediate contributor but won't require a long-term commitment, which is EXACTLY what Alexei is), who just happen to have a bunch of extra decent catching prospects laying around, which just happens to be exactly what our system needs. Even if none of the guys in the minor can cut it at SS, we have Leury, who can hold the position down admirably on defense until Tim Anderson or whoever is ready.

 

Alexei is great, but he's not likely to be a part of our next contender, so it's time to move him while he has value and we have the in-house candidates to replace him.

 

3. Acquire TWO corner outfielders -- It is time for Dayan Vicedo to go. I have always, ALWAYS been down on Viciedo and have always been willing to go down in flames if he broke out. Remember when I agreed you guys could stone me if he was good? Well he's not. He sucks. He has to go. "But Eminor, he hit a few homers the other day!" Yeah, look at his line this year: .231/.281/.405 with 21 HR (87 wRC+). "But Eminor, right-handed power is at a premium!" Yeah, but when you do everything else like a minor league utility player (except defense, which you do like Carlos Lee), you do more harm than good. Just for reference, 87 wRC+ is 13% below league average, and is exactly equal to the average MLB shortstop. We should give him to Seattle or something for anything in return.

 

But he should be replaced with TWO OFs, at least one of which needs to be left-handed. What this does is make our team more like Oakland in that it will allow us to play match-ups like crazy. THIS is what the rotating DH should look like: four starting outfielders, and extra starting caliber corner infielder, mixed handedness, use DH to make sure the best/hottest guys are in the lineup every night, maximizing platoon advantage and ensuring good health. Giving Abreu some days off, too.

 

I think we sign one (maybe a mid-tier guy, maybe a reclamation. Probably not Markakis even though he makes sense in every way except price) and trade for another. Another guy like Eaton would be ideal but let's not kid ourselves. If we spend more on the FA, maybe the trade is for the reclamation guy. Dominic Brown? I don't know, but we need two.

 

Three NOPES:

 

1. Do NOT sign James Shields -- He has been a great pitcher, had a cool career, he's eaten us up, I get it. But he's going to be 33 and is already experiencing the effects of a natural decline. His velocity is down and he's now relying much more on contact than before, which has kept his K/BB rates good, but cannot go on forever. Also, it's risky because you rely more on BABIP luck and good defense to get by. Shileds would be good next year, but already worse than this year, and it'll keep going downhill as his velocity goes. Given what he's going to cost (I'm guessing roughly 5yr/$100m plus a draft pick), we just are not ready to mortgage our future for 2015. It's just the wrong time, both for us and him.

 

2. Do NOT sign Victor Martinez -- This dude is about to get PAID. He's also really old, really injury prone, and really REALLY unlikely ever to touch what he did this year again. I'm not saying he's going to be useless, but guys at his age are one knee injury from becoming bums (see Carlos Beltran), and even if he stays healthy, you're not going to get that value back to justify the cost of what this season si about to earn him. He may be in line for 3yr/$60m. Also, locking up the DH spot with a one-dimensional player takes away our ability to do my rotating DH/platoon OF thing. This is money that can go toward Russell Martin!

 

3. Do NOT alter the pitching plan -- It didn't work out this year. With the exception of Noesi, all of our bullpen and rotation upside plays busted. That is NOT likely to happen again. It's a process that has worked wonders for several franchises in our position. We need to do a better job of selecting them, but the plan is sound. Do not let Felipe Paulino cloud your judgement, Hahn. Continue to leverage your pitching development staff, continue to find assets that can be moved if necessary, continue to find assets that don't block anyone, and continue to fish for upside.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Eminor3rd

[caulfield12]

1) I think we're going to get priced out of the Russell Martin sweepstakes by a team like the Dodgers.

 

2) Trading Alexei Ramirez is fine if we're only hoping for .500 next season, and not playoff contention....then it's the logical move, obviously.

 

Playing Leury Garcia 145 games at SS is a sure way to the same record we have currently this same time next year.

 

 

3) Viciedo is likely to be the back-up OF/DH next year, at least as things currently stand, with another player brought in from the outside or via free agency for LF/RF. I don't believe Rick Hahn's just quite ready to throw in the towel...kind of the same set of decisions he had with DeAza and Beckham this past offseason, and he punted them into 2014 essentially.

 

4) The bullpen needs a reliable lefty not named Andrew Miller and another potential closer who we're not paying coming off a 30-50 save season in 2014, like a Joakim Soria who's currently in a set-up role.

 

5) As far as Shields goes, see Alexei Ramirez....not competing in 2014, it's the wrong move as his best season will be wasted and then he'll be declining.

 

Agree about Victor Martinez.

 

Will be interesting to see what it would take to make Nelson Cruz part-time corner guy and mostly full-time DH, paired with a LH-hitting left fielder. Once again, Nellie Cruz is more of a "nice if you're competing in 2014 but probably not the right guy" if we're positioning for 2015.

 

I also think it's pretty clear that Sanchez will make a pretty nifty utility infielder but he's not a starter...and that Micah Johnson's not ready to play in the big leagues until June or July, so that's yet one more reason they need to reign it in and hold off spending until next offseason.

 

 

 

 

[iamshack]

A different take on an offseason thread that I hope will invite some thoughtful responses.

 

The rules: First name three moves the Sox absolutely need to MAKE this offseason, then name three moves the Sox absolutely need to AVOID this offseason. To wit:

 

Three YEPS:

 

1. Sign Russell Martin at anything up to 4yr/$60m -- He will NOT ever be as good at the plate as he was this year, but that's okay because he was a MONSTER this year and doesn't need to be to make the deal worth it. He has a career high 145 wRC+ this season, but all we need from him is about 100, and his career line is 106. THat would make him an elite defender with a league average bat who also happens to bring Veteran Leadership™ to the table. Even if his bat begins to decline immediately, game-calling and pitch-framing tend to improve with experience, and having that kind of glove back there witha bat that doesn't kill you is worth its weight in blood diamonds.

 

Admittedly, this was a much more attractive option when I first started clamoring for it midseason before the national media caught the scent, and he's going to be expensive as a result, but when you take a look around at the free agent classes of the next couple years and try to find ones that are going to pay dividends both immediately AND going forward, this is one of the few that jump out. And if paying Martin $14m a year is your big money acquisition, you're not really risking much, especially with our current payroll commitments being so low.

 

2. Trade Alexei Ramirez, probably to the Yankees -- I love Alexei. I really do. I have bragged about Alexei being the most underrated player in the game to all my friends for about four years now. But there are two reasons that it's time to move on: (1) he will be 33 years old, meaning that his defense will most likely decline as soon as next season, meaning that he will NOT be the player he is today when we need him the most a couple years down the line, and (2) we have a glut of MI prospects in the advanced levels of our minors, all of whom need a shot to stick at the majors. It is the position we are best able to fill with AT LEAST a stopgap. The market will be ripe this offseason as several big names will be looking for a SS, most notably the Yankees (who not only want a SS, but also one that will be an immediate contributor but won't require a long-term commitment, which is EXACTLY what Alexei is), who just happen to have a bunch of extra decent catching prospects laying around, which just happens to be exactly what our system needs. Even if none of the guys in the minor can cut it at SS, we have Leury, who can hold the position down admirably on defense until Tim Anderson or whoever is ready.

 

Alexei is great, but he's not likely to be a part of our next contender, so it's time to move him while he has value and we have the in-house candidates to replace him.

 

3. Acquire TWO corner outfielders -- It is time for Dayan Vicedo to go. I have always, ALWAYS been down on Viciedo and have always been willing to go down in flames if he broke out. Remember when I agreed you guys could stone me if he was good? Well he's not. He sucks. He has to go. "But Eminor, he hit a few homers the other day!" Yeah, look at his line this year: .231/.281/.405 with 21 HR (87 wRC+). "But Eminor, right-handed power is at a premium!" Yeah, but when you do everything else like a minor league utility player (except defense, which you do like Carlos Lee), you do more harm than good. Just for reference, 87 wRC+ is 13% below league average, and is exactly equal to the average MLB shortstop. We should give him to Seattle or something for anything in return.

 

But he should be replaced with TWO OFs, at least one of which needs to be left-handed. What this does is make our team more like Oakland in that it will allow us to play match-ups like crazy. THIS is what the rotating DH should look like: four starting outfielders, and extra starting caliber corner infielder, mixed handedness, use DH to make sure the best/hottest guys are in the lineup every night, maximizing platoon advantage and ensuring good health. Giving Abreu some days off, too.

 

I think we sign one (maybe a mid-tier guy, maybe a reclamation. Probably not Markakis even though he makes sense in every way except price) and trade for another. Another guy like Eaton would be ideal but let's not kid ourselves. If we spend more on the FA, maybe the trade is for the reclamation guy. Dominic Brown? I don't know, but we need two.

 

Three NOPES:

 

1. Do NOT sign James Shields -- He has been a great pitcher, had a cool career, he's eaten us up, I get it. But he's going to be 33 and is already experiencing the effects of a natural decline. His velocity is down and he's now relying much more on contact than before, which has kept his K/BB rates good, but cannot go on forever. Also, it's risky because you rely more on BABIP luck and good defense to get by. Shileds would be good next year, but already worse than this year, and it'll keep going downhill as his velocity goes. Given what he's going to cost (I'm guessing roughly 5yr/$100m plus a draft pick), we just are not ready to mortgage our future for 2015. It's just the wrong time, both for us and him.

 

2. Do NOT sign Victor Martinez -- This dude is about to get PAID. He's also really old, really injury prone, and really REALLY unlikely ever to touch what he did this year again. I'm not saying he's going to be useless, but guys at his age are one knee injury from becoming bums (see Carlos Beltran), and even if he stays healthy, you're not going to get that value back to justify the cost of what this season si about to earn him. He may be in line for 3yr/$60m. Also, locking up the DH spot with a one-dimensional player takes away our ability to do my rotating DH/platoon OF thing. This is money that can go toward Russell Martin!

 

3. Do NOT alter the pitching plan -- It didn't work out this year. With the exception of Noesi, all of our bullpen and rotation upside plays busted. That is NOT likely to happen again. It's a process that has worked wonders for several franchises in our position. We need to do a better job of selecting them, but the plan is sound. Do not let Felipe Paulino cloud your judgement, Hahn. Continue to leverage your pitching development staff, continue to find assets that can be moved if necessary, continue to find assets that don't block anyone, and continue to fish for upside.

Bravo, bravo!

[2nd_city_saint787]

Pirates GM Neal Huntington:"We are going to try to do everything we can to keep Russ.We’d love nothing more than to have (Martin) in a Pirates uniform (Martin) is a unique circumstance where we got beat up for singing him & if he does (leave), we are going to get highly criticized"

 

I'd love Martin, but I'd be shocked if he's not a Pirate next year.

 

I'm ok with trading Lexi as long as the package includes at least 1 guy who's gonna contribute at the ML level. I really think the Sox can compete as early as next year so I'm not interested in trading him for a bunch of minor leaguers.

 

I've been high on VMart and if they can get him for 2 year with an option for a 3rd I'd do it all day. I can really care less about the inability to have a rotating DH. You have a rotating DH when you don't have a good DH. I think VMart has at least 2 good years in em.

[bmags]

I don't see a SS in the minors until Tim Anderson that I think can match 80% of Alexei. I still think we should hold on until then and "get nothing".

[southsider2k5]

Pirates GM Neal Huntington:"We are going to try to do everything we can to keep Russ.We’d love nothing more than to have (Martin) in a Pirates uniform (Martin) is a unique circumstance where we got beat up for singing him & if he does (leave), we are going to get highly criticized"

 

I'd love Martin, but I'd be shocked if he's not a Pirate next year.

 

I'm ok with trading Lexi as long as the package includes at least 1 guy who's gonna contribute at the ML level. I really think the Sox can compete as early as next year so I'm not interested in trading him for a bunch of minor leaguers.

 

I've been high on VMart and if they can get him for 2 year with an option for a 3rd I'd do it all day. I can really care less about the inability to have a rotating DH. You have a rotating DH when you don't have a good DH. I think VMart has at least 2 good years in em.

 

I would be surprised to see the Pirates open the checkbook that wide.

[Eminor3rd]

1) I think we're going to get priced out of the Russell Martin sweepstakes by a team like the Dodgers.

 

We very well may get outbid on Martin, I agree. If it gets into the $80m range, we should bow out. And it may.

 

Also, I think what you seem to be implying about 2015 is it may be a "domino issue," in that if you decide to do one move, a bunch of others need to follow. I think that makes sense. LIke if you sign Shield or VMart, you should also try to sign the other, and you should also not trade Alexei, etc.

 

Bravo, bravo!

 

Thanks, friend!

 

I've been high on VMart and if they can get him for 2 year with an option for a 3rd I'd do it all day. I can really care less about the inability to have a rotating DH. You have a rotating DH when you don't have a good DH. I think VMart has at least 2 good years in em.

 

There's just no way he's going to come at 2 years.

 

I don't see a SS in the minors until Tim Anderson that I think can match 80% of Alexei. I still think we should hold on until then and "get nothing".

 

I just don't think Leury's bat out of SS is going to ruin this team the next year or two if you're right and no one in the minors can stick at SS. A good bat at SS is a luxury but not a requirement. The DEFENSE is a requirement, and I think Leury has it. I'm okay with that floor in the worst case.

[chw42]

A different take on an offseason thread that I hope will invite some thoughtful responses.

 

The rules: First name three moves the Sox absolutely need to MAKE this offseason, then name three moves the Sox absolutely need to AVOID this offseason. To wit:

 

Three YEPS:

 

1. Sign Russell Martin at anything up to 4yr/$60m -- He will NOT ever be as good at the plate as he was this year, but that's okay because he was a MONSTER this year and doesn't need to be to make the deal worth it. He has a career high 145 wRC+ this season, but all we need from him is about 100, and his career line is 106. THat would make him an elite defender with a league average bat who also happens to bring Veteran Leadership™ to the table. Even if his bat begins to decline immediately, game-calling and pitch-framing tend to improve with experience, and having that kind of glove back there witha bat that doesn't kill you is worth its weight in blood diamonds.

 

Admittedly, this was a much more attractive option when I first started clamoring for it midseason before the national media caught the scent, and he's going to be expensive as a result, but when you take a look around at the free agent classes of the next couple years and try to find ones that are going to pay dividends both immediately AND going forward, this is one of the few that jump out. And if paying Martin $14m a year is your big money acquisition, you're not really risking much, especially with our current payroll commitments being so low.

 

2. Trade Alexei Ramirez, probably to the Yankees -- I love Alexei. I really do. I have bragged about Alexei being the most underrated player in the game to all my friends for about four years now. But there are two reasons that it's time to move on: (1) he will be 33 years old, meaning that his defense will most likely decline as soon as next season, meaning that he will NOT be the player he is today when we need him the most a couple years down the line, and (2) we have a glut of MI prospects in the advanced levels of our minors, all of whom need a shot to stick at the majors. It is the position we are best able to fill with AT LEAST a stopgap. The market will be ripe this offseason as several big names will be looking for a SS, most notably the Yankees (who not only want a SS, but also one that will be an immediate contributor but won't require a long-term commitment, which is EXACTLY what Alexei is), who just happen to have a bunch of extra decent catching prospects laying around, which just happens to be exactly what our system needs. Even if none of the guys in the minor can cut it at SS, we have Leury, who can hold the position down admirably on defense until Tim Anderson or whoever is ready.

 

Alexei is great, but he's not likely to be a part of our next contender, so it's time to move him while he has value and we have the in-house candidates to replace him.

 

3. Acquire TWO corner outfielders -- It is time for Dayan Vicedo to go. I have always, ALWAYS been down on Viciedo and have always been willing to go down in flames if he broke out. Remember when I agreed you guys could stone me if he was good? Well he's not. He sucks. He has to go. "But Eminor, he hit a few homers the other day!" Yeah, look at his line this year: .231/.281/.405 with 21 HR (87 wRC+). "But Eminor, right-handed power is at a premium!" Yeah, but when you do everything else like a minor league utility player (except defense, which you do like Carlos Lee), you do more harm than good. Just for reference, 87 wRC+ is 13% below league average, and is exactly equal to the average MLB shortstop. We should give him to Seattle or something for anything in return.

 

But he should be replaced with TWO OFs, at least one of which needs to be left-handed. What this does is make our team more like Oakland in that it will allow us to play match-ups like crazy. THIS is what the rotating DH should look like: four starting outfielders, and extra starting caliber corner infielder, mixed handedness, use DH to make sure the best/hottest guys are in the lineup every night, maximizing platoon advantage and ensuring good health. Giving Abreu some days off, too.

 

I think we sign one (maybe a mid-tier guy, maybe a reclamation. Probably not Markakis even though he makes sense in every way except price) and trade for another. Another guy like Eaton would be ideal but let's not kid ourselves. If we spend more on the FA, maybe the trade is for the reclamation guy. Dominic Brown? I don't know, but we need two.

 

Three NOPES:

 

1. Do NOT sign James Shields -- He has been a great pitcher, had a cool career, he's eaten us up, I get it. But he's going to be 33 and is already experiencing the effects of a natural decline. His velocity is down and he's now relying much more on contact than before, which has kept his K/BB rates good, but cannot go on forever. Also, it's risky because you rely more on BABIP luck and good defense to get by. Shileds would be good next year, but already worse than this year, and it'll keep going downhill as his velocity goes. Given what he's going to cost (I'm guessing roughly 5yr/$100m plus a draft pick), we just are not ready to mortgage our future for 2015. It's just the wrong time, both for us and him.

 

2. Do NOT sign Victor Martinez -- This dude is about to get PAID. He's also really old, really injury prone, and really REALLY unlikely ever to touch what he did this year again. I'm not saying he's going to be useless, but guys at his age are one knee injury from becoming bums (see Carlos Beltran), and even if he stays healthy, you're not going to get that value back to justify the cost of what this season si about to earn him. He may be in line for 3yr/$60m. Also, locking up the DH spot with a one-dimensional player takes away our ability to do my rotating DH/platoon OF thing. This is money that can go toward Russell Martin!

 

3. Do NOT alter the pitching plan -- It didn't work out this year. With the exception of Noesi, all of our bullpen and rotation upside plays busted. That is NOT likely to happen again. It's a process that has worked wonders for several franchises in our position. We need to do a better job of selecting them, but the plan is sound. Do not let Felipe Paulino cloud your judgement, Hahn. Continue to leverage your pitching development staff, continue to find assets that can be moved if necessary, continue to find assets that don't block anyone, and continue to fish for upside.

 

Unless we get back a really good prospect for Alexei, I really don't think we should trade him. There are a lot of good reasons to trade him, like you brought up, but I don't see a good replacement in the near future that can replicate his bat and defense.

[bmags]

We very well may get outbid on Martin, I agree. If it gets into the $80m range, we should bow out. And it may.

 

Also, I think what you seem to be implying about 2015 is it may be a "domino issue," in that if you decide to do one move, a bunch of others need to follow. I think that makes sense. LIke if you sign Shield or VMart, you should also try to sign the other, and you should also not trade Alexei, etc.

 

 

 

Thanks, friend!

 

 

 

There's just no way he's going to come at 2 years.

 

 

 

I just don't think Leury's bat out of SS is going to ruin this team the next year or two if you're right and no one in the minors can stick at SS. A good bat at SS is a luxury but not a requirement. The DEFENSE is a requirement, and I think Leury has it. I'm okay with that floor in the worst case.

 

 

Depends what you mean by "ruin the team". We have several infield prospects that really don't appear to offer higher than average offensive returns. So we are taking 1 of those positions where we were seeing average to above average offense and downgrading it. Is 2b getting an upgrade with Semien? Perhaps, but I'm only from the Beckham baseline.

 

So, if we don't get Martin, you'll be getting below average production from Catcher, SS, 2b, and likely one of two corner OF positions.

 

While this may not "ruin" the team, it doesn't really solve my biggest issue, which is quite possibly wasting the core years of a tremendous group in Abreu, Sale and Q.

 

Unless you are getting a starter from Alexei, I don't see the need to develop that position.

[witesoxfan]

I'll go with more general guidelines as opposed to more confined and restrictive moves you've made.

 

YEPS

1) Do attempt to buy low on talented players. These are players who will be discounted somewhat who won't require long-term deals and can provide some insane value both for the Sox and on the trade market. The optimal guy on the free agent market is Colby Rasmus as he fits the Sox needs for another outfielder while offering insane upside to the Sox. He's very much a TTO player, which will turn a lot of guys off, but the upside is high enough to warrant a gamble.

2) Do whatever you can to trade John Danks. He's been discussed quite often, and at the deadline I was on the side of keeping him as it didn't make sense to eat money and get rid of him, but I think this team is a lot closer to competing than even I realized. They're likely going to end up eating most of his contract, but there are ways around that, primarily eating another bad contract that the Sox can find some value in. When looking at possible returns, I look at the Sox needs - outfielder, rotation arm, and bullpen arms - and figure out which is most a trade that can be made. I don't know the exact team, but someone with bad contracts and a need for starting pitching. My gut right now tells me Philadelphia is a possible place to trade with a guy like Domonic Brown coming back, but who knows.

3) In coordination with 2, do bring in a good starting pitcher. Again, this is not shedding all the prospects and bringing in a guy like Cueto or signing James Shields to a mega contract, but acquire a solid 3 WAR starting pitcher, essentially a quality #3. Even if you have to spend a bit of money, this will be worth it as the additions of Rodon and said guy can add a total of perhaps 6 WAR to the rotation. That is a team that is competing.

 

NOPES

1) Do not spend a lot of money on part-time players. This includes relievers. With the amount of decent depth the club as well as the number of options the Sox should be able to acquire for cheap, there is no reason to give a Keppinger or Linebrink type of contract out this offseason. Just continue looking for talented non-tenders and waiver claims and keep moving forward. This does not mean don't show interest - there are guys out there who would be worth multi-year deals at the right price (such as Andrew Miller) - but be cautious.

2) Similar to 1 in the yeps, do not buy players at their highest value. This kind of works against Russell Martin, who I think is a special case, but in general, this will only result in negative cost-value. The Sox, currently, are not at a point where they need a guys such as that. Perhaps following the 2015 or 2016 season they can look towards those moves.

3) Do not "blow the load" this offseason. There is no need to spend a huge sum of money on a free agent, nor is there any reason to trade a huge package of minor leaguers for a major leaguer. Keep the ship steady, make incremental upgrades, and put forth the most talented roster you can without making brash or irrational moves. The Sox are not ready for that yet.

[Jake]

I need a haul to trade Alexei. He's one of the top 3-5 SS in the game and has been for years, is relatively cheap, under control, and we don't have a clear replacement. If there is no good return out there, then there is no risk in keeping him as I have very little fear that he won't live up to expectations for the duration of his contract.

 

I'm very conflicted about what to do about catcher. If not Martin, who I think will ultimately be overpaid, then you're faced with guys who are probably not clearly better options than Flowers. While I can get behind investing in Martin, the main alternative I'd endorse pursuing is getting a younger guy in here. This might be a stipulation for trading Alexei. On the lower end, a guy like Wilin Rosario would be interesting to have in here - could be a Tank-Rosario swap?

[witesoxfan]

How could I have forgotten the most obvious one?

 

MOST OBVIOUS DO ON THE PLANET

1) Sign Adam Dunn to 735 year, $1,000,000,000,000 contract

[2nd_city_saint787]

How could I have forgotten the most obvious one?

 

MOST OBVIOUS DO ON THE PLANET

1) Sign Adam Dunn to 735 year, $1,000,000,000,000 contract

 

Wouldn't that be blowing the load though? Which was one of your don'ts? Cutting out 3 of those zeros seems much more reasonable.

Edited September 23, 2014 by scs787

[witesoxfan]

Wouldn't that be blowing the load though? Which was one of your don'ts? Cutting out 3 of those zeros seems much more reasonable.

 

I think we can make an exception for a guy who's going to save the planet from imminent destruction.

[BlackSox13]

A different take on an offseason thread that I hope will invite some thoughtful responses.

 

The rules: First name three moves the Sox absolutely need to MAKE this offseason, then name three moves the Sox absolutely need to AVOID this offseason. To wit:

 

Three YEPS:

 

1. Sign Russell Martin at anything up to 4yr/$60m -- He will NOT ever be as good at the plate as he was this year, but that's okay because he was a MONSTER this year and doesn't need to be to make the deal worth it. He has a career high 145 wRC+ this season, but all we need from him is about 100, and his career line is 106. THat would make him an elite defender with a league average bat who also happens to bring Veteran Leadership™ to the table. Even if his bat begins to decline immediately, game-calling and pitch-framing tend to improve with experience, and having that kind of glove back there witha bat that doesn't kill you is worth its weight in blood diamonds.

 

Admittedly, this was a much more attractive option when I first started clamoring for it midseason before the national media caught the scent, and he's going to be expensive as a result, but when you take a look around at the free agent classes of the next couple years and try to find ones that are going to pay dividends both immediately AND going forward, this is one of the few that jump out. And if paying Martin $14m a year is your big money acquisition, you're not really risking much, especially with our current payroll commitments being so low.

 

2. Trade Alexei Ramirez, probably to the Yankees -- I love Alexei. I really do. I have bragged about Alexei being the most underrated player in the game to all my friends for about four years now. But there are two reasons that it's time to move on: (1) he will be 33 years old, meaning that his defense will most likely decline as soon as next season, meaning that he will NOT be the player he is today when we need him the most a couple years down the line, and (2) we have a glut of MI prospects in the advanced levels of our minors, all of whom need a shot to stick at the majors. It is the position we are best able to fill with AT LEAST a stopgap. The market will be ripe this offseason as several big names will be looking for a SS, most notably the Yankees (who not only want a SS, but also one that will be an immediate contributor but won't require a long-term commitment, which is EXACTLY what Alexei is), who just happen to have a bunch of extra decent catching prospects laying around, which just happens to be exactly what our system needs. Even if none of the guys in the minor can cut it at SS, we have Leury, who can hold the position down admirably on defense until Tim Anderson or whoever is ready.

 

Alexei is great, but he's not likely to be a part of our next contender, so it's time to move him while he has value and we have the in-house candidates to replace him.

 

3. Acquire TWO corner outfielders -- It is time for Dayan Vicedo to go. I have always, ALWAYS been down on Viciedo and have always been willing to go down in flames if he broke out. Remember when I agreed you guys could stone me if he was good? Well he's not. He sucks. He has to go. "But Eminor, he hit a few homers the other day!" Yeah, look at his line this year: .231/.281/.405 with 21 HR (87 wRC+). "But Eminor, right-handed power is at a premium!" Yeah, but when you do everything else like a minor league utility player (except defense, which you do like Carlos Lee), you do more harm than good. Just for reference, 87 wRC+ is 13% below league average, and is exactly equal to the average MLB shortstop. We should give him to Seattle or something for anything in return.

 

But he should be replaced with TWO OFs, at least one of which needs to be left-handed. What this does is make our team more like Oakland in that it will allow us to play match-ups like crazy. THIS is what the rotating DH should look like: four starting outfielders, and extra starting caliber corner infielder, mixed handedness, use DH to make sure the best/hottest guys are in the lineup every night, maximizing platoon advantage and ensuring good health. Giving Abreu some days off, too.

 

I think we sign one (maybe a mid-tier guy, maybe a reclamation. Probably not Markakis even though he makes sense in every way except price) and trade for another. Another guy like Eaton would be ideal but let's not kid ourselves. If we spend more on the FA, maybe the trade is for the reclamation guy. Dominic Brown? I don't know, but we need two.

 

Three NOPES:

 

1. Do NOT sign James Shields -- He has been a great pitcher, had a cool career, he's eaten us up, I get it. But he's going to be 33 and is already experiencing the effects of a natural decline. His velocity is down and he's now relying much more on contact than before, which has kept his K/BB rates good, but cannot go on forever. Also, it's risky because you rely more on BABIP luck and good defense to get by. Shileds would be good next year, but already worse than this year, and it'll keep going downhill as his velocity goes. Given what he's going to cost (I'm guessing roughly 5yr/$100m plus a draft pick), we just are not ready to mortgage our future for 2015. It's just the wrong time, both for us and him.

 

2. Do NOT sign Victor Martinez -- This dude is about to get PAID. He's also really old, really injury prone, and really REALLY unlikely ever to touch what he did this year again. I'm not saying he's going to be useless, but guys at his age are one knee injury from becoming bums (see Carlos Beltran), and even if he stays healthy, you're not going to get that value back to justify the cost of what this season si about to earn him. He may be in line for 3yr/$60m. Also, locking up the DH spot with a one-dimensional player takes away our ability to do my rotating DH/platoon OF thing. This is money that can go toward Russell Martin!

 

3. Do NOT alter the pitching plan -- It didn't work out this year. With the exception of Noesi, all of our bullpen and rotation upside plays busted. That is NOT likely to happen again. It's a process that has worked wonders for several franchises in our position. We need to do a better job of selecting them, but the plan is sound. Do not let Felipe Paulino cloud your judgement, Hahn. Continue to leverage your pitching development staff, continue to find assets that can be moved if necessary, continue to find assets that don't block anyone, and continue to fish for upside.

Agreed with everything except for Martin. If Martin would cost 15M per year then I would have to say no. I would rather stick with Flowers and use spend that 15M per year on a couple of nice relievers for the pen. I guess my thinking is Flowers plus two solid relievers makes the team better than one Martin.

 

I'm not sure who replaces Alexei. Could try to sign Steven Drew on the cheap and use him to bridge the gap to Anderson while Drew uses the Sox to rebuild his value. Drew would give the Sox another lefty bat in the lineup while providing some decent defense.

 

Otherwise I like where you're coming from on this upcoming off season. I love the idea of 4 OF's to rotate with the DH. Should the Sox decide to put Semien at 3rd, Gillaspie could become apart of that 4 man rotation and allow Ventura to use Gillaspie mostly against RHP. Assuming Tank would be traded, there would still be room to bring in a higher salary player via trade to fit into that 4 man OF rotation of Gillaspie, Eaton, Avi and whomever.

[glangon]

Yeps

 

1) Bring in a proven closer - A proven closer will set up the guys we already have to roles in the pen. We don't need to do a lot to the pen, but bringing in a closer would put the likes of Putnam, Petricka and Guerra in proper roles in the pen rather than being shuffled about to fill in.

 

2) Sign 1 big name starter - The rotation next year looks to be Sale, Q, Danks and Noesi. Bringing in one big name righty starter would put Q to 3, Noesi to 4 and Danks to 5. We're stuck with Danks contract, we may as well make the best of it

 

3) Sign a Left Handed Left Fielder - More than likely, Tank will play DH next season with Jordan Danks / Moises Sierra likely to be the back up outfielder, one outfielder should be enough with Eaton and Avi in the outfield already

 

Nopes

 

1) Don't bring in a proven catcher. Flowers has done the job this year and seems to handle the pitching staff well and with Nieto / Phegley as back up, we aren't too bad going forward. If we are trading pieced away, then I'd rather see us bringing in young talented catchers to come through the system.

 

2) Don't put Rodon in the rotation. I'd like to see him as either a leftie in the pen or another year in Charlotte before he comes up to give him some more experience.

 

3) Don't trade away Alexei. His defense has been great this year and with Carlos Sanchez at 2nd base and Marcus Semien as the utility guy, our infield looks and can hit better than when we had Beckham. Plus. I would like to see Micah spend some more time in AAA

[BlackSox13]

Yeps

 

1) Bring in a proven closer - A proven closer will set up the guys we already have to roles in the pen. We don't need to do a lot to the pen, but bringing in a closer would put the likes of Putnam, Petricka and Guerra in proper roles in the pen rather than being shuffled about to fill in.

 

2) Sign 1 big name starter - The rotation next year looks to be Sale, Q, Danks and Noesi. Bringing in one big name righty starter would put Q to 3, Noesi to 4 and Danks to 5. We're stuck with Danks contract, we may as well make the best of it

 

3) Sign a Left Handed Left Fielder - More than likely, Tank will play DH next season with Jordan Danks / Moises Sierra likely to be the back up outfielder, one outfielder should be enough with Eaton and Avi in the outfield already

 

Nopes

 

1) Don't bring in a proven catcher. Flowers has done the job this year and seems to handle the pitching staff well and with Nieto / Phegley as back up, we aren't too bad going forward. If we are trading pieced away, then I'd rather see us bringing in young talented catchers to come through the system.

 

2) Don't put Rodon in the rotation. I'd like to see him as either a leftie in the pen or another year in Charlotte before he comes up to give him some more experience.

 

3) Don't trade away Alexei. His defense has been great this year and with Carlos Sanchez at 2nd base and Marcus Semien as the utility guy, our infield looks and can hit better than when we had Beckham. Plus. I would like to see Micah spend some more time in AAA

Sorry but the Sox only have 30-35M to spend which will not be enough to sign a big named starter, sign a lefty bat and bring in a proven closer. All three of those will be very costly.

[Eminor3rd]

Agreed with everything except for Martin. If Martin would cost 15M per year then I would have to say no. I would rather stick with Flowers and use spend that 15M per year on a couple of nice relievers for the pen. I guess my thinking is Flowers plus two solid relievers makes the team better than one Martin.

 

I'm not sure who replaces Alexei. Could try to sign Steven Drew on the cheap and use him to bridge the gap to Anderson while Drew uses the Sox to rebuild his value. Drew would give the Sox another lefty bat in the lineup while providing some decent defense.

 

Otherwise I like where you're coming from on this upcoming off season. I love the idea of 4 OF's to rotate with the DH. Should the Sox decide to put Semien at 3rd, Gillaspie could become apart of that 4 man rotation and allow Ventura to use Gillaspie mostly against RHP. Assuming Tank would be traded, there would still be room to bring in a higher salary player via trade to fit into that 4 man OF rotation of Gillaspie, Eaton, Avi and whomever.

 

I actually kind of love the idea of throwing Stephen Drew in the mix in the event of an Alexei trade. Drew has been so abjectly bad that (1) there's no way he'll get paid anything significant and (2) there's no way he won't accidentally be better. That would be the type of signing where if one of the kids comes up and grabs the ML SS job by the nuts in the spring, you're fine just DFA'ing Drew.

[Eminor3rd]

Yeps

 

1) Bring in a proven closer - A proven closer will set up the guys we already have to roles in the pen. We don't need to do a lot to the pen, but bringing in a closer would put the likes of Putnam, Petricka and Guerra in proper roles in the pen rather than being shuffled about to fill in.

 

2) Sign 1 big name starter - The rotation next year looks to be Sale, Q, Danks and Noesi. Bringing in one big name righty starter would put Q to 3, Noesi to 4 and Danks to 5. We're stuck with Danks contract, we may as well make the best of it

 

3) Sign a Left Handed Left Fielder - More than likely, Tank will play DH next season with Jordan Danks / Moises Sierra likely to be the back up outfielder, one outfielder should be enough with Eaton and Avi in the outfield already

 

Nopes

 

1) Don't bring in a proven catcher. Flowers has done the job this year and seems to handle the pitching staff well and with Nieto / Phegley as back up, we aren't too bad going forward. If we are trading pieced away, then I'd rather see us bringing in young talented catchers to come through the system.

 

2) Don't put Rodon in the rotation. I'd like to see him as either a leftie in the pen or another year in Charlotte before he comes up to give him some more experience.

 

3) Don't trade away Alexei. His defense has been great this year and with Carlos Sanchez at 2nd base and Marcus Semien as the utility guy, our infield looks and can hit better than when we had Beckham. Plus. I would like to see Micah spend some more time in AAA

 

Lol, this one is funny to me because it's almost literally the exact opposite of mine. It's almost as if you took direct counterpoint to everything in my post.

 

Not saying your ideas are bad, maybe you have the right plan. But I must say: with all due respect, I could not possibly disagree more with the plan you laid out.

 

Also, did you vote YES on independence?!

Edited September 23, 2014 by Eminor3rd

[Eminor3rd]

I'm very conflicted about what to do about catcher. If not Martin, who I think will ultimately be overpaid, then you're faced with guys who are probably not clearly better options than Flowers. While I can get behind investing in Martin, the main alternative I'd endorse pursuing is getting a younger guy in here. This might be a stipulation for trading Alexei. On the lower end, a guy like Wilin Rosario would be interesting to have in here - could be a Tank-Rosario swap?

 

I agree with that -- I think the first thing you do the second the WS ends is get on the phone and try to get a good, controllable catcher. Russell Martin would be a back-up plan to that that I'd be very happy with if I was Hahn.

 

And if he isn't going to cost me $100m or something insane.

 

However, while I'd absolutely trade Viciedo for ANYTHING, I don't think Rosario should be our target. I'm of the belief that catcher defense is mroe important than we can quantify, and Rosario is barely a catcher. But yeah, if they'd take Viciedo for some reason...

[Eminor3rd]

I'll go with more general guidelines as opposed to more confined and restrictive moves you've made.

 

 

YEPS

1) Do attempt to buy low on talented players. These are players who will be discounted somewhat who won't require long-term deals and can provide some insane value both for the Sox and on the trade market. The optimal guy on the free agent market is Colby Rasmus as he fits the Sox needs for another outfielder while offering insane upside to the Sox. He's very much a TTO player, which will turn a lot of guys off, but the upside is high enough to warrant a gamble.

2) Do whatever you can to trade John Danks. He's been discussed quite often, and at the deadline I was on the side of keeping him as it didn't make sense to eat money and get rid of him, but I think this team is a lot closer to competing than even I realized. They're likely going to end up eating most of his contract, but there are ways around that, primarily eating another bad contract that the Sox can find some value in. When looking at possible returns, I look at the Sox needs - outfielder, rotation arm, and bullpen arms - and figure out which is most a trade that can be made. I don't know the exact team, but someone with bad contracts and a need for starting pitching. My gut right now tells me Philadelphia is a possible place to trade with a guy like Domonic Brown coming back, but who knows.

3) In coordination with 2, do bring in a good starting pitcher. Again, this is not shedding all the prospects and bringing in a guy like Cueto or signing James Shields to a mega contract, but acquire a solid 3 WAR starting pitcher, essentially a quality #3. Even if you have to spend a bit of money, this will be worth it as the additions of Rodon and said guy can add a total of perhaps 6 WAR to the rotation. That is a team that is competing.

 

NOPES

1) Do not spend a lot of money on part-time players. This includes relievers. With the amount of decent depth the club as well as the number of options the Sox should be able to acquire for cheap, there is no reason to give a Keppinger or Linebrink type of contract out this offseason. Just continue looking for talented non-tenders and waiver claims and keep moving forward. This does not mean don't show interest - there are guys out there who would be worth multi-year deals at the right price (such as Andrew Miller) - but be cautious.

2) Similar to 1 in the yeps, do not buy players at their highest value. This kind of works against Russell Martin, who I think is a special case, but in general, this will only result in negative cost-value. The Sox, currently, are not at a point where they need a guys such as that. Perhaps following the 2015 or 2016 season they can look towards those moves.

3) Do not "blow the load" this offseason. There is no need to spend a huge sum of money on a free agent, nor is there any reason to trade a huge package of minor leaguers for a major leaguer. Keep the ship steady, make incremental upgrades, and put forth the most talented roster you can without making brash or irrational moves. The Sox are not ready for that yet.

 

Regarding Danks, I jsut don't see any situation where anyone would give up ANYTHING for him. He's damaged goods. Without his contract, he simply wouldn't be in the Majors right now. I can't come up with a scneario where some other team would want to invest to give him a shot, even if the money was covered.

 

Like The Dodgers are better off using Ethier purely as a pinch hitter than having Danks in the mix. The Phillies might have an argument to give up Howard, but why the hell would we want Howard, and I'm not sure Danks would bring enough value to justify Amaro admitting his mistake like that.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Eminor3rd

[witesoxfan]

I agree with that -- I think the first thing you do the second the WS ends is get on the phone and try to get a good, controllable catcher. Russell Martin would be a back-up plan to that that I'd be very happy with if I was Hahn.

 

And if he isn't going to cost me $100m or something insane.

 

However, while I'd absolutely trade Viciedo for ANYTHING, I don't think Rosario should be our target. I'm of the belief that catcher defense is mroe important than we can quantify, and Rosario is barely a catcher. But yeah, if they'd take Viciedo for some reason...

 

This is why I'm not that down on Flowers. Even with the highest career strikeout rate of all time, I think he provides enough to justify 400 or so plate appearances a year, the staff is comfortable with him, and he has turned into a really solid catcher.

[Eminor3rd]

This is why I'm not that down on Flowers. Even with the highest career strikeout rate of all time, I think he provides enough to justify 400 or so plate appearances a year, the staff is comfortable with him, and he has turned into a really solid catcher.

 

I think he's a really solid BACKUP -- maybe even an awesome backup. And, in general, an awesome backup is a guy you can live with as a starter if you absolutely have to. I'm with you there. But I also think it's the easiest and most substantial upgrade we can make on the roster.

 

Except maybe LF.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Sorry but the Sox only have 30-35M to spend which will not be enough to sign a big named starter, sign a lefty bat and bring in a proven closer. All three of those will be very costly.

 

We really don't know that for sure. Rock has said in the past that when the Sox are ready to compete the payroll will be $100+. Right now pre arbitration the payroll is 43.8. Arbitration wise I can't imagine it being much more that 15M if they bring back Noesi, Tank, Flowers, and Jones. So IF there are guys they like to spend it on, and by that I mean they won't just spend money to spend money, it's possible they can be adding ~50M.

 

I really don't think money will be an issue this offseason.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

A different take on an offseason thread that I hope will invite some thoughtful responses.

 

The rules: First name three moves the Sox absolutely need to MAKE this offseason, then name three moves the Sox absolutely need to AVOID this offseason. To wit:

 

Three YEPS:

 

1. Sign Russell Martin at anything up to 4yr/$60m -- He will NOT ever be as good at the plate as he was this year, but that's okay because he was a MONSTER this year and doesn't need to be to make the deal worth it. He has a career high 145 wRC+ this season, but all we need from him is about 100, and his career line is 106. THat would make him an elite defender with a league average bat who also happens to bring Veteran Leadership™ to the table. Even if his bat begins to decline immediately, game-calling and pitch-framing tend to improve with experience, and having that kind of glove back there witha bat that doesn't kill you is worth its weight in blood diamonds.

 

Admittedly, this was a much more attractive option when I first started clamoring for it midseason before the national media caught the scent, and he's going to be expensive as a result, but when you take a look around at the free agent classes of the next couple years and try to find ones that are going to pay dividends both immediately AND going forward, this is one of the few that jump out. And if paying Martin $14m a year is your big money acquisition, you're not really risking much, especially with our current payroll commitments being so low.

 

2. Trade Alexei Ramirez, probably to the Yankees -- I love Alexei. I really do. I have bragged about Alexei being the most underrated player in the game to all my friends for about four years now. But there are two reasons that it's time to move on: (1) he will be 33 years old, meaning that his defense will most likely decline as soon as next season, meaning that he will NOT be the player he is today when we need him the most a couple years down the line, and (2) we have a glut of MI prospects in the advanced levels of our minors, all of whom need a shot to stick at the majors. It is the position we are best able to fill with AT LEAST a stopgap. The market will be ripe this offseason as several big names will be looking for a SS, most notably the Yankees (who not only want a SS, but also one that will be an immediate contributor but won't require a long-term commitment, which is EXACTLY what Alexei is), who just happen to have a bunch of extra decent catching prospects laying around, which just happens to be exactly what our system needs. Even if none of the guys in the minor can cut it at SS, we have Leury, who can hold the position down admirably on defense until Tim Anderson or whoever is ready.

 

Alexei is great, but he's not likely to be a part of our next contender, so it's time to move him while he has value and we have the in-house candidates to replace him.

 

3. Acquire TWO corner outfielders -- It is time for Dayan Vicedo to go. I have always, ALWAYS been down on Viciedo and have always been willing to go down in flames if he broke out. Remember when I agreed you guys could stone me if he was good? Well he's not. He sucks. He has to go. "But Eminor, he hit a few homers the other day!" Yeah, look at his line this year: .231/.281/.405 with 21 HR (87 wRC+). "But Eminor, right-handed power is at a premium!" Yeah, but when you do everything else like a minor league utility player (except defense, which you do like Carlos Lee), you do more harm than good. Just for reference, 87 wRC+ is 13% below league average, and is exactly equal to the average MLB shortstop. We should give him to Seattle or something for anything in return.

 

But he should be replaced with TWO OFs, at least one of which needs to be left-handed. What this does is make our team more like Oakland in that it will allow us to play match-ups like crazy. THIS is what the rotating DH should look like: four starting outfielders, and extra starting caliber corner infielder, mixed handedness, use DH to make sure the best/hottest guys are in the lineup every night, maximizing platoon advantage and ensuring good health. Giving Abreu some days off, too.

 

I think we sign one (maybe a mid-tier guy, maybe a reclamation. Probably not Markakis even though he makes sense in every way except price) and trade for another. Another guy like Eaton would be ideal but let's not kid ourselves. If we spend more on the FA, maybe the trade is for the reclamation guy. Dominic Brown? I don't know, but we need two.

 

Three NOPES:

 

1. Do NOT sign James Shields -- He has been a great pitcher, had a cool career, he's eaten us up, I get it. But he's going to be 33 and is already experiencing the effects of a natural decline. His velocity is down and he's now relying much more on contact than before, which has kept his K/BB rates good, but cannot go on forever. Also, it's risky because you rely more on BABIP luck and good defense to get by. Shileds would be good next year, but already worse than this year, and it'll keep going downhill as his velocity goes. Given what he's going to cost (I'm guessing roughly 5yr/$100m plus a draft pick), we just are not ready to mortgage our future for 2015. It's just the wrong time, both for us and him.

 

2. Do NOT sign Victor Martinez -- This dude is about to get PAID. He's also really old, really injury prone, and really REALLY unlikely ever to touch what he did this year again. I'm not saying he's going to be useless, but guys at his age are one knee injury from becoming bums (see Carlos Beltran), and even if he stays healthy, you're not going to get that value back to justify the cost of what this season si about to earn him. He may be in line for 3yr/$60m. Also, locking up the DH spot with a one-dimensional player takes away our ability to do my rotating DH/platoon OF thing. This is money that can go toward Russell Martin!

 

3. Do NOT alter the pitching plan -- It didn't work out this year. With the exception of Noesi, all of our bullpen and rotation upside plays busted. That is NOT likely to happen again. It's a process that has worked wonders for several franchises in our position. We need to do a better job of selecting them, but the plan is sound. Do not let Felipe Paulino cloud your judgement, Hahn. Continue to leverage your pitching development staff, continue to find assets that can be moved if necessary, continue to find assets that don't block anyone, and continue to fish for upside.

I like the trade Alexei part , though if you rid the Sox of Viciedo and Alexei . Abreu has no countrymen except Nieto who is most likely in the minors next year. Probably won't matter much to a hitter like Abreu but it's something to discuss. Alexei's coming off a good season and the time to trade him is now. Leury at SS though, yuckie ! Remember Jose Inglesias is coming back from injury next year ( http://www.sportsoverdose.com/mlb-players/jose-iglesias ) and that Suarez kid has looked pretty damn good at SS for the Tigers. Too bad its inter-division but Tigers might be willing to move one or the other now that Suarez has held his own.

 

Not sure about the Russell Martin thing meaning highly doubtful we get him since so many other teams have deeper pockets and catching is at such a premium. Is this a career year for Flowers or has all the studying he's done of great hitters paid off into a league average catcher , which frankly, would be fine with me because...

 

We need more a few more good relief pitchers. Is that altering the pitching plan ? Bottom feeding for pitchers isn't what I'd call a plan if you want to compete. Maybe Erik Johnson can rebound as a starter or try him in the pen. But Sox do have some great arms in the system but arrival time is so crucial when you have guys like Sale and Abreu . Can't wait too long .

 

I was wondering what teams have benefited from that approach ? Maybe the Cubs come to mind but I'd like some from the AL because ,frankly , it's a different game in the NL . I'm always leery of getting NL pitchers.

 

I wanted Ellsbury last year but I do like Sierra. The guy is a tool shed. Seems great ( or annoying depending how you respond to his love) in the dugout and has played well for the Sox . Sort of suffered since trying to build Viciedo's value. The Sox rebuild really suffered a big blow this year despite several guys like Abreu, Eaton and, Gillaspie all emerging but about 8 guys you wanted to see emerge sucking or getting injured. I'd like Saunders from the Mariners and hopefully they are willing to move him if they still want Viciedo ( ha right) .

 

If the Sox do want to compete next year then a bat like VMart is a must. Again will probably be outbid but his numbers are astounding. How fast could he really fall off ? I think Abreu could deal with losing his Cuban countrymen if he had VMART next to him in the lineup. Try pitching around Abreu now suckers ! You get to face VMArt instead of Conor or Avi. If no VMart then the Sox seem to be putting a lot of weight that your favorite ( ) Avi Garcia will produce and/ or improve the defense and relief pitching a lot , which then might preclude trading Alexei. Of course we would need another quality starter then also.

 

A lot of directions this can go. The 1st major trade or signing will point us to what Hahn has in mind .