Three YEPS and three NOPES

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I was being hyperbolic I thought, but lo and behold:

 

Fangraphs gives Jeter a -5.5 in 1996

Fangraphs gives Omar an 11.2 in 2007

In what ? Was Jeter 22 in 96 ? Was Vizquel an every day SS at 42 in 2007 ? Can't compare range between a regular and a part timer when range won't hold up playing every day at 42. Defensive metrics don't prove squat, thats why I said prove it. I'm supposed to know you're being hyberbolic how again ? If you're making a point saying how Alexei will age you should stick to facts. Hyberbole in order to make a point just comes off as not believing in your position enough to state the truth or facts.

[ILMOU]

You are odd. Wow. Maybe Hahn should be looking for all guys over 32 instead of young guys. All athletes are not the majority of athletes. Yea duh that's why I said the majority instead of all. Play the odds he's a SS not a 1st baseman. The position demands just a bit more athleticism which does not increase with age. Besides like Eminor I love the guy and if we can sign my free agents there's really no need to trade him. But like I said I'm leaning in the trade direction knowing the Sox won't sign 3 free agents.

 

Lexi is stealing more bases and more efficiently than at any point in his career. He's not putting on weight. He'll age just fine for at least a few more years.

 

Now, the debate about whether to trade him is different, but I think folks are underestimating the difficulty of finding a quality defensive SS that isn't a black hole on O. Semien, who I like, has 14 errors now in limited time, and has not convinced me he's an answer there.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Stan Bahnsen

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Lexi is stealing more bases and more efficiently than at any point in his career. He's not putting on weight. He'll age just fine for at least a few more years.

 

Now, the debate about whether to trade him is different, but I think folks are underestimating the difficulty of finding a quality defensive SS that isn't a black hole on O. Semien, who I like, has 14 errors now in limited time, and has not convinced me he's an answer there.

I know he'll age just fine and be good for the remainder of his contract but then he's nearing 35 and Vance Law is talking an extension ? I'm fine with Alexei I really am. Who wouldn't be ? But extension talk ?

 

I know it's very hard to fill that position but I just filled DH with a great hitter and plugged holes in the bullpen and starting rotation with my plan. I'd be happy either way with keeping or trading him . I guess I have to keep repeating that. But since my plan won't happen see what you can get for him because we don't have much else worth trading as far as older guys worth a damn and still have lots of holes to fill.

Edited September 24, 2014 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Vance Law]

You are odd. Wow. Maybe Hahn should be looking for all guys over 32 instead of young guys. All athletes are not the majority of athletes. Yea duh that's why I said the majority instead of all. Play the odds he's a SS not a 1st baseman. The position demands just a bit more athleticism which does not increase with age. Besides like Eminor I love the guy and if we can sign my free agents there's really no need to trade him. But like I said I'm leaning in the trade direction knowing the Sox won't sign 3 free agents.

I'm actually not odd. Obviously signing only players over 32 is a bad idea and not something Hahn would/should do. It's also not a coherent "argument" for why any particular 32 year old is a good or bad idea. You stated, as if it were fact, that "speculating on how Alexei will age is pointless." That's an odd thing to say. Speculating on how Alexei will age, I'd bet he's a better defensive shortstop than Semien, Sanchez, or Anderson for the next 4 years. Sanchez has quickness and hands but nowhere near the arm that allows Ramirez to make plays. Semien seems a work in progress in all defensive facets, and Anderson has played all of 10 games at AA and had 34 errors in 82 games this year.

 

I say all of this as someone who thinks either option, keep or trading Alexei both have merit.

[Chicago White Sox]

I think the Sox are planning on Tim Anderson becoming our starting shortstop by 2017. So unless you can get something of significance for Alexei, you might as well hold onto him through 2016. If this team is serious about competing over the next four to five years, I can't think of a better way to maximize our SS production.

 

Also, Luery Garcia has no business being a starting SS in the pros. I don't care how special you think his defense might be, his bat is beyond horrendous and would simply destroy the bottom of the lineup.

[Vance Law]

In what ? Was Jeter 22 in 96 ? Was Vizquel an every day SS at 42 in 2007 ? Can't compare range between a regular and a part timer when range won't hold up playing every day at 42. Defensive metrics don't prove squat, thats why I said prove it. I'm supposed to know you're being hyberbolic how again ? If you're making a point saying how Alexei will age you should stick to facts. Hyberbole in order to make a point just comes off as not believing in your position enough to state the truth or facts.

 

Buddy, c'mon for chrissakes. I didn't necessarily know if Vizquel actually had better range precisely at age 42 than Jeter did at age 22. I didn't think a sentence like that would read like something I was swearing my life to, but I would stand behind the more general point that Vizquel waaaayyy late in his career still was better defensively than Jeter at his most athletic (or virtually any time in his career).

 

Looks like Vizquel was not a full timer at 42, no. But at age 40 he was and Fangraphs has him at his career best defensive season at 30.2. Other defensive metrics agree, UZR of 23.9. etc., etc.

 

Yes, Jeter was 22 in '96.

[greg775]

I think the Sox are planning on Tim Anderson becoming our starting shortstop by 2017. So unless you can get something of significance for Alexei, you might as well hold onto him through 2016. If this team is serious about competing over the next four to five years, I can't think of a better way to maximize our SS production.

 

Also, Luery Garcia has no business being a starting SS in the pros. I don't care how special you think his defense might be, his bat is beyond horrendous and would simply destroy the bottom of the lineup.

 

Amen. You don't trade Alexei unless you have a replacement. As it stands, if the Sox trade Alexei and put L. Garcia at ss, you are looking at probably the worst team in Sox history. The automatic out that Garcia accounts for, does not bode well when guys like Viciedo and Flowers go into prolonged slumps. I don't care what WAR says, I'm saying if you trade Alexei and replace him with L. Garcia or Semien, you got a CERTAIN last-place team on your hands.

Of course some fans don't mind finishing last. It's like it's part of the rebuilding plan. I can't even imagine a .500 team on the south side the next 10 years the way it's going now.

And Anderson might not be the answer from what I've been reading about his defense.

Edited September 24, 2014 by greg775

[IlliniKrush]

Buddy, c'mon for chrissakes. I didn't necessarily know if Vizquel actually had better range precisely at age 42 than Jeter did at age 22. I didn't think a sentence like that would read like something I was swearing my life to, but I would stand behind the more general point that Vizquel waaaayyy late in his career still was better defensively than Jeter at his most athletic (or virtually any time in his career).

 

Looks like Vizquel was not a full timer at 42, no. But at age 40 he was and Fangraphs has him at his career best defensive season at 30.2. Other defensive metrics agree, UZR of 23.9. etc., etc.

 

Yes, Jeter was 22 in '96.

You proved your "point," you were absolutely correct. Even without "proof" watching games would tell you Jeter had terrible range his entire career, and Vizquel was still solid in later years.

 

[Dam8610]

Amen. You don't trade Alexei unless you have a replacement. As it stands, if the Sox trade Alexei and put L. Garcia at ss, you are looking at probably the worst team in Sox history. The automatic out that Garcia accounts for, does not bode well when guys like Viciedo and Flowers go into prolonged slumps. I don't care what WAR says, I'm saying if you trade Alexei and replace him with L. Garcia or Semien, you got a CERTAIN last-place team on your hands.

Of course some fans don't mind finishing last. It's like it's part of the rebuilding plan. I can't even imagine a .500 team on the south side the next 10 years the way it's going now.

And Anderson might not be the answer from what I've been reading about his defense.

 

How do you think one finds a replacement for a player? There are very few options for this.

 

1) The team rids itself of the player and acquires a similar or higher quality player externally, via trade or free agency. This seems to be the solution you advocate in practically every situation. This is also the solution that gives you a crapton of untenable payroll commitments eventually, if you go the free agent route, or leaves you with a barren farm system if you go the trade route.

 

2) The team rids itself of the player and finds a replacement internally. From your posts, I gather that you find this option unpalatable in practically all situations, as you seem to value minor league baseball players at roughly the same level the average person values toilet paper, virtually useless, save for the exact right situation. The problem with this line of thinking is that the only way to turn talented young baseball players into effective major league contributors is by allowing them to get the experience they need to develop into those roles.

 

3) The team keeps the player until the player's value is less than that of a league average or worse replacement, then replaces him either internally or externally with the best available option. You also seem to be okay with this strategy, but to me, it leaves a lot of value on the table, because this strategy precludes "selling high" on a player, which is when you will be able to maximize value.

 

I also have to disagree with your assessment of the team's prospects of winning next year should they decide to start Semien at SS. There is a chance that he will be a terrible starter, but I think there is a higher chance that he'll cut down on his K rate, improve his BB total, keep his ISO in the .125-.150 range, and be a .700-.750 OPS SS. That's at least league average, and certainly not enough of a black hole to justify keeping Ramirez over maximizing his value.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Dam8610

[Dam8610]

As for the thread premise, here goes:

 

DO acquire at least two hitters, preferably OF, one of which should be LH and ideally both starter caliber. If I were doing the shopping, I would be looking at potential guys and reclamation projects here. A guy who the front office thinks could be a middle of the order bat is a must, but other than that I would look for good defense and low K rates. One of these holes may be able to be filled internally with Semien depending on how okay you are with he and Sanchez both playing major roles in 2015.

 

DO acquire a solid, #2-3 type RHSP, and a couple of quality bullpen pieces. Doing this will place the Sox in the best position they can be in to contend next year, while also giving some flexibility at the trade deadline if things break poorly, as they did this year. Doing this will also give the Sox a starting 5 that can at least compete for the first half without having to force their hand on Rodon, assuming that you believe that two of Noesi, Danks, Carroll, and Bassitt can give you quality 4 and 5 guys. The other plus from that group is the two that don't make the rotation may be able to be used to improve the bullpen, which will need several upgrades from any and all sources possible for this team to compete next year.

 

DO shop everyone on the ML team except for Sale, Q, Abreu, Eaton, A. Garcia, and anyone under the age of 25. To me, if the price is right on anyone else, you take the deal. The only players that would require a major return in my book would be Ramirez and Gillaspie, because I feel that the production of either would be particularly difficult to replace, and would create a ripple effect of platoon problems, unless you feel Semien can replace Gillaspie's production. Also, if you can sucker someone into taking Danks's contact, great, but unlikely. Viciedo would be a great guy to move as well, especially if you can get anything of value for him.

 

DO NOT hand John Danks a 2015 rotation slot. To me, if the team goes out and signs a #2-3 caliber starter, then rotation slots 4 and 5 should be completely up for grabs. I have a feeling Noesi will pull down one of those slots because he has pitched fairly well for the White Sox this year, but I would like to see Bassitt, maybe Carroll, and hell even Erik Johnson get a shot at a starting slot. I hate the idea of making decisions on sunk costs, and to me, the only reason Danks would even be considered for the 2015 rotation is the sunk cost of his contract. If that's the case, then make him the long man and give a guy like Bassitt a shot to develop. That would be ideal to me, with the eventuality being that Rodon takes one of the 4 or 5 slots when he is ready.

 

DO NOT spend big money in free agency on an old, "proven" bat. Signing a guy like Victor Martinez would set this team back in its goals as he is 36 and will get WAY too much on the open market. Paying a 36 year old $20 million per year for 3 years is obscenely stupid unless you feel that that player can put your team on a championship contending level. Without significant other spending, Victor Martinez would not do that for the White Sox. Nor would Russell Martin, nor any of the other 32-36 year olds available.

 

DO NOT go into "Win Now" mode. This is a ~75 win team. To be a playoff team, it will take a ~15-20 win improvement. It would be nigh impossible to gain that ground this off-season, and it would be bad to do so for the overarching long term goal of building a consistent championship contender. Gaining another 5-10 games this off-season should be the goal, with the full force of "Win Now" mode coming into effect after the 2015 season. Obviously, that doesn't mean start trading away the farm at that point, but I feel as though 2016 is going to be the realistic beginning of the White Sox competitive window with this core.

[Quin]

IF Alexei is traded it's one of Sanchez or Semien at SS with Micah at 2B. Then Anderson likely comes up and takes the spot.

 

My guess is Alexei isn't traded unless it's an absolute haul.

[beautox]

Great post.

 

- Personally I wouldn't pay for Martin, career year over 30 plays the most demanding position on the diamond. I would prefer Hahn try and buy low on Grandal, his sept is a marked improvement over the rest of his year.

 

- I've been saying for a few months now that trading Alexei to the yankees makes way too much sense and honestly we should be looking at a package similar to this for his services RHP Luis Severino, LHP Manny Banuelos & SS Jorge Mateo

 

- Sign Rasmus he hits everything that Hahn is looking for: Left hand, power, defense relatively young & shouldn't cost much. I agree we should be looking for 4 outfielders total though but i still think in a rebuilding year Wilkins should be given 3-500 major league at bats just to close the book on him if he is only a AAAA player.

 

If we're going to add a pitcher I think the sox would be better served adding Maeda than anyone else out there this offseason and Rodon shouldn't be brought up till super 2 passes, Hahn has figured out how to deal with Boras and its simple: limit the number of draft picks represented by him and precede to sign every other pick leaving him with a finite budget in addition to leaving yourself an out with a reach incase he denies you.

Edited September 24, 2014 by beautox

[caulfield12]

Great post.

 

- Personally I wouldn't pay for Martin, career year over 30 plays the most demanding position on the diamond. I would prefer Hahn try and buy low on Grandal, his sept is a marked improvement over the rest of his year.

 

- I've been saying for a few months now that trading Alexei to the yankees makes way too much sense and honestly we should be looking at a package similar to this for his services RHP Luis Severino, LHP Manny Banuelos & SS Jorge Mateo

 

- Sign Rasmus he hits everything that Hahn is looking for: Left hand, power, defense relatively young & shouldn't cost much. I agree we should be looking for 4 outfielders total though but i still think in a rebuilding year Wilkins should be given 3-500 major league at bats just to close the book on him if he is only a AAAA player.

 

If we're going to add a pitcher I think the sox would be better served adding Maeda than anyone else out there this offseason and Rodon shouldn't be brought up till super 2 passes, Hahn has figured out how to deal with Boras and its simple: limit the number of draft picks represented by him and precede to sign every other pick leaving him with a finite budget in addition to leaving yourself an out with a reach incase he denies you.

 

 

That's assuming they DON'T go after Hanley Ramirez or JJ Hardy, depending on whether his option is picked up by BALT.

 

The Tigers will be trying to unload Iglesias or Suarez (likely Iglesias, so that will undercut Alexei's value a bit as well).

 

There are a couple of other options in play as well, such as Jed Lowrie, trying to keep Stephen Drew, etc.

 

The Mariners have another Brendan Ryan type in Brad Miller they'll attempt to trade, since they've found a better offensive SS who doesn't hit with a wet newspaper.

 

Eduardo Escobar will be available too, as the Twins are likely to move Salazar back to SS when/if Buxton and Hicks come back healthy.

[Eminor3rd]

Sure, as long as he has the right platoon partner.

 

Precisely.

[witesoxfan]

As for the thread premise, here goes:

 

DO acquire at least two hitters, preferably OF, one of which should be LH and ideally both starter caliber. If I were doing the shopping, I would be looking at potential guys and reclamation projects here. A guy who the front office thinks could be a middle of the order bat is a must, but other than that I would look for good defense and low K rates. One of these holes may be able to be filled internally with Semien depending on how okay you are with he and Sanchez both playing major roles in 2015.

 

DO acquire a solid, #2-3 type RHSP, and a couple of quality bullpen pieces. Doing this will place the Sox in the best position they can be in to contend next year, while also giving some flexibility at the trade deadline if things break poorly, as they did this year. Doing this will also give the Sox a starting 5 that can at least compete for the first half without having to force their hand on Rodon, assuming that you believe that two of Noesi, Danks, Carroll, and Bassitt can give you quality 4 and 5 guys. The other plus from that group is the two that don't make the rotation may be able to be used to improve the bullpen, which will need several upgrades from any and all sources possible for this team to compete next year.

 

DO shop everyone on the ML team except for Sale, Q, Abreu, Eaton, A. Garcia, and anyone under the age of 25. To me, if the price is right on anyone else, you take the deal. The only players that would require a major return in my book would be Ramirez and Gillaspie, because I feel that the production of either would be particularly difficult to replace, and would create a ripple effect of platoon problems, unless you feel Semien can replace Gillaspie's production. Also, if you can sucker someone into taking Danks's contact, great, but unlikely. Viciedo would be a great guy to move as well, especially if you can get anything of value for him.

 

DO NOT hand John Danks a 2015 rotation slot. To me, if the team goes out and signs a #2-3 caliber starter, then rotation slots 4 and 5 should be completely up for grabs. I have a feeling Noesi will pull down one of those slots because he has pitched fairly well for the White Sox this year, but I would like to see Bassitt, maybe Carroll, and hell even Erik Johnson get a shot at a starting slot. I hate the idea of making decisions on sunk costs, and to me, the only reason Danks would even be considered for the 2015 rotation is the sunk cost of his contract. If that's the case, then make him the long man and give a guy like Bassitt a shot to develop. That would be ideal to me, with the eventuality being that Rodon takes one of the 4 or 5 slots when he is ready.

 

DO NOT spend big money in free agency on an old, "proven" bat. Signing a guy like Victor Martinez would set this team back in its goals as he is 36 and will get WAY too much on the open market. Paying a 36 year old $20 million per year for 3 years is obscenely stupid unless you feel that that player can put your team on a championship contending level. Without significant other spending, Victor Martinez would not do that for the White Sox. Nor would Russell Martin, nor any of the other 32-36 year olds available.

 

DO NOT go into "Win Now" mode. This is a ~75 win team. To be a playoff team, it will take a ~15-20 win improvement. It would be nigh impossible to gain that ground this off-season, and it would be bad to do so for the overarching long term goal of building a consistent championship contender. Gaining another 5-10 games this off-season should be the goal, with the full force of "Win Now" mode coming into effect after the 2015 season. Obviously, that doesn't mean start trading away the farm at that point, but I feel as though 2016 is going to be the realistic beginning of the White Sox competitive window with this core.

 

I agree with all of this, but just want to note on the bolded - that's a lot of crap the Sox are shopping. It's the same problem they had at the deadline this year and it's the major problem with the current roster construction, but it's a very good problem to have. Right now, the Sox have a few very talented, high upside players on the roster - specifically Sale, Quintana, Abreu, Eaton, and possibly Garcia (though I'm still timid, he's acquainted himself fairly well and he should be a good bat moving forward, if nothing else). The problem is filling in around them - the back of the rotation needs help, the bullpen is very mediocre, and there are still holes and upgradeable positions throughout the lineup. Those are much, much easier to fill than giant, glaring holes where you need big time production.

 

Basically, if you shop those other guys, don't expect a lot because they are not very good.

[southsider2k5]

I don't get the trade Alexi mentality unless it is something impossible to say no to. He seems the type of player who will get old around 42. He's one of the best SS and replacing him from the farm system will probably be another one of those deficits the Sox jinx themselves for years.

 

He is also a guy that most likely will be willing to work out a team friendly deal to stay somewhere he obviously loves.

[southsider2k5]

Amen. You don't trade Alexei unless you have a replacement. As it stands, if the Sox trade Alexei and put L. Garcia at ss, you are looking at probably the worst team in Sox history. The automatic out that Garcia accounts for, does not bode well when guys like Viciedo and Flowers go into prolonged slumps. I don't care what WAR says, I'm saying if you trade Alexei and replace him with L. Garcia or Semien, you got a CERTAIN last-place team on your hands.

Of course some fans don't mind finishing last. It's like it's part of the rebuilding plan. I can't even imagine a .500 team on the south side the next 10 years the way it's going now.

And Anderson might not be the answer from what I've been reading about his defense.

 

Learn some White Sox history dude. As long as this organization has a healthy Abreu and Sale, it isn't the worst anything.

[witesoxfan]

Learn some White Sox history dude. As long as this organization has a healthy Abreu and Sale, it isn't the worst anything.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/1970.shtml

 

Oh, and people like to complain about attendance, but that team AVERAGED 6,115 a game.

[Eminor3rd]

How do you think one finds a replacement for a player? There are very few options for this.

 

1) The team rids itself of the player and acquires a similar or higher quality player externally, via trade or free agency. This seems to be the solution you advocate in practically every situation. This is also the solution that gives you a crapton of untenable payroll commitments eventually, if you go the free agent route, or leaves you with a barren farm system if you go the trade route.

 

2) The team rids itself of the player and finds a replacement internally. From your posts, I gather that you find this option unpalatable in practically all situations, as you seem to value minor league baseball players at roughly the same level the average person values toilet paper, virtually useless, save for the exact right situation. The problem with this line of thinking is that the only way to turn talented young baseball players into effective major league contributors is by allowing them to get the experience they need to develop into those roles.

 

3) The team keeps the player until the player's value is less than that of a league average or worse replacement, then replaces him either internally or externally with the best available option. You also seem to be okay with this strategy, but to me, it leaves a lot of value on the table, because this strategy precludes "selling high" on a player, which is when you will be able to maximize value.

 

I also have to disagree with your assessment of the team's prospects of winning next year should they decide to start Semien at SS. There is a chance that he will be a terrible starter, but I think there is a higher chance that he'll cut down on his K rate, improve his BB total, keep his ISO in the .125-.150 range, and be a .700-.750 OPS SS. That's at least league average, and certainly not enough of a black hole to justify keeping Ramirez over maximizing his value.

 

 

As for the thread premise, here goes:

 

DO acquire at least two hitters, preferably OF, one of which should be LH and ideally both starter caliber. If I were doing the shopping, I would be looking at potential guys and reclamation projects here. A guy who the front office thinks could be a middle of the order bat is a must, but other than that I would look for good defense and low K rates. One of these holes may be able to be filled internally with Semien depending on how okay you are with he and Sanchez both playing major roles in 2015.

 

DO acquire a solid, #2-3 type RHSP, and a couple of quality bullpen pieces. Doing this will place the Sox in the best position they can be in to contend next year, while also giving some flexibility at the trade deadline if things break poorly, as they did this year. Doing this will also give the Sox a starting 5 that can at least compete for the first half without having to force their hand on Rodon, assuming that you believe that two of Noesi, Danks, Carroll, and Bassitt can give you quality 4 and 5 guys. The other plus from that group is the two that don't make the rotation may be able to be used to improve the bullpen, which will need several upgrades from any and all sources possible for this team to compete next year.

 

DO shop everyone on the ML team except for Sale, Q, Abreu, Eaton, A. Garcia, and anyone under the age of 25. To me, if the price is right on anyone else, you take the deal. The only players that would require a major return in my book would be Ramirez and Gillaspie, because I feel that the production of either would be particularly difficult to replace, and would create a ripple effect of platoon problems, unless you feel Semien can replace Gillaspie's production. Also, if you can sucker someone into taking Danks's contact, great, but unlikely. Viciedo would be a great guy to move as well, especially if you can get anything of value for him.

 

DO NOT hand John Danks a 2015 rotation slot. To me, if the team goes out and signs a #2-3 caliber starter, then rotation slots 4 and 5 should be completely up for grabs. I have a feeling Noesi will pull down one of those slots because he has pitched fairly well for the White Sox this year, but I would like to see Bassitt, maybe Carroll, and hell even Erik Johnson get a shot at a starting slot. I hate the idea of making decisions on sunk costs, and to me, the only reason Danks would even be considered for the 2015 rotation is the sunk cost of his contract. If that's the case, then make him the long man and give a guy like Bassitt a shot to develop. That would be ideal to me, with the eventuality being that Rodon takes one of the 4 or 5 slots when he is ready.

 

DO NOT spend big money in free agency on an old, "proven" bat. Signing a guy like Victor Martinez would set this team back in its goals as he is 36 and will get WAY too much on the open market. Paying a 36 year old $20 million per year for 3 years is obscenely stupid unless you feel that that player can put your team on a championship contending level. Without significant other spending, Victor Martinez would not do that for the White Sox. Nor would Russell Martin, nor any of the other 32-36 year olds available.

 

DO NOT go into "Win Now" mode. This is a ~75 win team. To be a playoff team, it will take a ~15-20 win improvement. It would be nigh impossible to gain that ground this off-season, and it would be bad to do so for the overarching long term goal of building a consistent championship contender. Gaining another 5-10 games this off-season should be the goal, with the full force of "Win Now" mode coming into effect after the 2015 season. Obviously, that doesn't mean start trading away the farm at that point, but I feel as though 2016 is going to be the realistic beginning of the White Sox competitive window with this core.

 

Where have you been all my life?

 

Thoughtful post, I agree with all the premises. I still want Russell Martin because I think there are objective reasons to believe that he will age well, but am aware that the price may be too high. You're right -- you only pay for the career year if you think it will happen again, and I don't.

 

I need to spend time in other forums.

 

[Eminor3rd]

That's assuming they DON'T go after Hanley Ramirez or JJ Hardy, depending on whether his option is picked up by BALT.

 

The Tigers will be trying to unload Iglesias or Suarez (likely Iglesias, so that will undercut Alexei's value a bit as well).

 

There are a couple of other options in play as well, such as Jed Lowrie, trying to keep Stephen Drew, etc.

 

The Mariners have another Brendan Ryan type in Brad Miller they'll attempt to trade, since they've found a better offensive SS who doesn't hit with a wet newspaper.

 

Eduardo Escobar will be available too, as the Twins are likely to move Salazar back to SS when/if Buxton and Hicks come back healthy.

 

I don't think Hardy has an option. If I'm right, he's the only comparable alternative to Alexei on the market.

 

They won't want to pay Hanley to decline for them -- I think Cashman has learned his lesson the pasty couple years about fielding old, injury prone has-beens. The other guys you listed are very clearly worse than Hardy/Alexei, except Lowrie, who won't be available.

[iamshack]

I don't think Hardy has an option. If I'm right, he's the only comparable alternative to Alexei on the market.

 

They won't want to pay Hanley to decline for them -- I think Cashman has learned his lesson the pasty couple years about fielding old, injury prone has-beens. The other guys you listed are very clearly worse than Hardy/Alexei, except Lowrie, who won't be available.

I wouldn't be able to watch Hardy and his girly throwing motion

[Eminor3rd]

I wouldn't be able to watch Hardy and his girly throwing motion

 

 

I would love it if Hahn just went out and said something like that at a press conference.

 

Reporter: "Now that you've traded franchise cornerstone Alexei Ramirez, how do you plan to address the SS issue? There are obviously internal options, but some have speculated that free agent JJ Hardy might be a good fit."

 

Hahn: "Free agency is an avenue we'll explore, but JJ Hardy isn't really on our radar. Collectively, we simply wouldn't be able to watch his girly throwing motion all year."

[caulfield12]

 

I would love it if Hahn just went out and said something like that at a press conference.

 

Reporter: "Now that you've traded franchise cornerstone Alexei Ramirez, how do you plan to address the SS issue? There are obviously internal options, but some have speculated that free agent JJ Hardy might be a good fit."

 

Hahn: "Free agency is an avenue we'll explore, but JJ Hardy isn't really on our radar. Collectively, we simply wouldn't be able to watch his girly throwing motion all year."

 

I don't think we need the additional handicap of a NOW boycott of Sox games to go along with another "Hawkism."

[Eminor3rd]

I don't think we need the additional handicap of a NOW boycott of Sox games to go along with another "Hawkism."

 

Lol, I know. It was a joke. No one should ever say something like that on the air.

[greg775]

How do you think one finds a replacement for a player? There are very few options for this.

 

1) The team rids itself of the player and acquires a similar or higher quality player externally, via trade or free agency. This seems to be the solution you advocate in practically every situation. This is also the solution that gives you a crapton of untenable payroll commitments eventually, if you go the free agent route, or leaves you with a barren farm system if you go the trade route.

 

2) The team rids itself of the player and finds a replacement internally. From your posts, I gather that you find this option unpalatable in practically all situations, as you seem to value minor league baseball players at roughly the same level the average person values toilet paper, virtually useless, save for the exact right situation. The problem with this line of thinking is that the only way to turn talented young baseball players into effective major league contributors is by allowing them to get the experience they need to develop into those roles.

 

3) The team keeps the player until the player's value is less than that of a league average or worse replacement, then replaces him either internally or externally with the best available option. You also seem to be okay with this strategy, but to me, it leaves a lot of value on the table, because this strategy precludes "selling high" on a player, which is when you will be able to maximize value.

 

I also have to disagree with your assessment of the team's prospects of winning next year should they decide to start Semien at SS. There is a chance that he will be a terrible starter, but I think there is a higher chance that he'll cut down on his K rate, improve his BB total, keep his ISO in the .125-.150 range, and be a .700-.750 OPS SS. That's at least league average, and certainly not enough of a black hole to justify keeping Ramirez over maximizing his value.

 

That's a pretty good post as I am honored you have expressed my position pretty accurately and your toilet paper line was quite well written and funny, especially for an internet forum.

True I don't have much confidence in the Sox bringing in their minor leaguers to fill future roles. I hope you are right about Semien at short. I would prefer your option 3 at this time. Let Lexi play some more for the Sox until Anderson is ready. I'm assuming Anderson was a solid No. 1 pick, but I am getting worried that his defense may suck. The best thing I've heard about his defense on this board is it figures to get better since he's young.

I actually am in favor of Semien playing second next year. I don't want to see him butcher third defensively any longer.

So I want Gillaspie to platoon with somebody at third and pray his defense gets more consistent; Lexi at short; Semien at second and Abreu at first. That's a playoff caliber infield. Yank Lexi out of there and it's a sub .500 team infield (or worse as I expressed earlier) unless Abreu goes bonkers with 60 homers.

Edited September 24, 2014 by greg775