Three YEPS and three NOPES

[Eminor3rd]

I like the trade Alexei part , though if you rid the Sox of Viciedo and Alexei . Abreu has no countrymen except Nieto who is most likely in the minors next year. Probably won't matter much to a hitter like Abreu but it's something to discuss. Alexei's coming off a good season and the time to trade him is now. Leury at SS though, yuckie ! Remember Jose Inglesias is coming back from injury next year ( http://www.sportsoverdose.com/mlb-players/jose-iglesias ) and that Suarez kid has looked pretty damn good at SS for the Tigers. Too bad its inter-division but Tigers might be willing to move one or the other now that Suarez has held his own.

 

Not sure about the Russell Martin thing meaning highly doubtful we get him since so many other teams have deeper pockets and catching is at such a premium. Is this a career year for Flowers or has all the studying he's done of great hitters paid off into a league average catcher , which frankly, would be fine with me because...

 

We need more a few more good relief pitchers. Is that altering the pitching plan ? Bottom feeding for pitchers isn't what I'd call a plan if you want to compete. Maybe Erik Johnson can rebound as a starter or try him in the pen. But Sox do have some great arms in the system but arrival time is so crucial when you have guys like Sale and Abreu . Can't wait too long .

 

I was wondering what teams have benefited from that approach ? Maybe the Cubs come to mind but I'd like some from the AL because ,frankly , it's a different game in the NL . I'm always leery of getting NL pitchers.

 

I wanted Ellsbury last year but I do like Sierra. The guy is a tool shed. Seems great ( or annoying depending how you respond to his love) in the dugout and has played well for the Sox . Sort of suffered since trying to build Viciedo's value. The Sox rebuild really suffered a big blow this year despite several guys like Abreu, Eaton and, Gillaspie all emerging but about 8 guys you wanted to see emerge sucking or getting injured. I'd like Saunders from the Mariners and hopefully they are willing to move him if they still want Viciedo ( ha right) .

 

If the Sox do want to compete next year then a bat like VMart is a must. Again will probably be outbid but his numbers are astounding. How fast could he really fall off ? I think Abreu could deal with losing his Cuban countrymen if he had VMART next to him in the lineup. Try pitching around Abreu now suckers ! You get to face VMArt instead of Conor or Avi. If no VMart then the Sox seem to be putting a lot of weight that your favorite ( ) Avi Garcia will produce and/ or improve the defense and relief pitching a lot , which then might preclude trading Alexei. Of course we would need another quality starter then also.

 

A lot of directions this can go. The 1st major trade or signing will point us to what Hahn has in mind .

 

All good food for thought.

[Dick Allen]

So a 33 year old SS won't be part of the next White Sox contender but the Sox should open the check book for a 32 year old catcher and be willing to go 4 years and $60 million.

 

You have been saying Alexei will slip for at least 2 year. Why wouldn't that apply to Martin?

[Butter Parque]

I'd sign Denorfia to a 1 or 2 year deal to hit lefties. You could also sign Rasmus or trade for another lefty outfield bat and platoon the two. Definitely will help our OF defense.

[caulfield12]

I need a haul to trade Alexei. He's one of the top 3-5 SS in the game and has been for years, is relatively cheap, under control, and we don't have a clear replacement. If there is no good return out there, then there is no risk in keeping him as I have very little fear that he won't live up to expectations for the duration of his contract.

 

I'm very conflicted about what to do about catcher. If not Martin, who I think will ultimately be overpaid, then you're faced with guys who are probably not clearly better options than Flowers. While I can get behind investing in Martin, the main alternative I'd endorse pursuing is getting a younger guy in here. This might be a stipulation for trading Alexei. On the lower end, a guy like Wilin Rosario would be interesting to have in here - could be a Tank-Rosario swap?

 

 

Rosario's kind of a headcase and the Rockies at one point were considering moving him out of the catcher's position because he was making so many frustrating mistakes...think of him as Dayan Viciedo, but at catcher.

 

That said, I'd rather find talented but flawed (buy low) players like Rosario (or Grandal) than overspend on a soon-to-be-declining Russell Martin.

[BlackSox13]

I actually kind of love the idea of throwing Stephen Drew in the mix in the event of an Alexei trade. Drew has been so abjectly bad that (1) there's no way he'll get paid anything significant and (2) there's no way he won't accidentally be better. That would be the type of signing where if one of the kids comes up and grabs the ML SS job by the nuts in the spring, you're fine just DFA'ing Drew.

That's what I'm thinking.

 

The Sox get a decent replacement for Alexei plus whatever prospect(s) they get from trading Alexei. Hopefully Anderson comes around with the glove and will be ready for 2016 .

 

We really don't know that for sure. Rock has said in the past that when the Sox are ready to compete the payroll will be $100+. Right now pre arbitration the payroll is 43.8. Arbitration wise I can't imagine it being much more that 15M if they bring back Noesi, Tank, Flowers, and Jones. So IF there are guys they like to spend it on, and by that I mean they won't just spend money to spend money, it's possible they can be adding ~50M.

 

I really don't think money will be an issue this offseason.

Good points. I think I kind of forgot about Dunn's salary coming off the books.

 

I still doubt the Sox buy a FA pitcher. Sherzer will cost big in terms of annual salary and the length of the contract, Shields is going to be 33 in December and likely to get a 3-4 year deal so I don't see him being a realistic option.

 

The Sox could bring in salary via trade which I agree with but do the Sox have enough prospects to trade away while keeping something for the future? I'm glad I don't have Hahn's job.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

All good food for thought.

Think the Yankee's would be willing to part with Dellin Betances for Alexei ? Maybe David Robertson or Brandon McCarthy ? Yankees probably go for Scherzer or Shields ,can afford to give up McCarthy maybe a prospect with McCarthy.

[Balta1701]

Think the Yankee's would be willing to part with Dellin Betances for Alexei ? Maybe David Robertson or Brandon McCarthy ? Yankees probably go for Scherzer or Shields ,can afford to give up McCarthy maybe a prospect with McCarthy.

Both of those guys are free agents I believe.

[southsider2k5]

Think the Yankee's would be willing to part with Dellin Betances for Alexei ? Maybe David Robertson or Brandon McCarthy ? Yankees probably go for Scherzer or Shields ,can afford to give up McCarthy maybe a prospect with McCarthy.

 

Trade a reliever for Alexei? Surely we can do better than that.

[caulfield12]

I don't think the whole "wait on Tim Anderson to be the answer at SS" train is going to get going until he proves he can field that position more effectively in 2015 than he did the last couple of seasons.

 

Birmingham will be a big test for him. It's a make or break year for him sticking at his highest value position, IMO. To me, right now, I'm going to be more cautious and say he's still more likely to end up at 2B/LF just so I won't be disappointed in the future. If he does remain at SS, that allows for me to be pleasantly surprised at his development.

 

I'd rather have a "plus" LF with good range and oozing with talent and an above average arm for that position (compared to short) than a below-average shortstop...unless Anderson's doubles and triples starting turning into 18-24 homers per season and you live with the errors in order for that kind of bat to be in the line-up at a premium position where 75% of the players league-wide are under a 700 OPS.

Edited September 23, 2014 by caulfield12

[Jake]

Carlos Sanchez is your SS

[Chisoxfn]

So a 33 year old SS won't be part of the next White Sox contender but the Sox should open the check book for a 32 year old catcher and be willing to go 4 years and $60 million.

 

You have been saying Alexei will slip for at least 2 year. Why wouldn't that apply to Martin?

I agree. Martin is a nice get but giving big money to an aging catcher coming off a career year would appear to be a very bad idea. He has a lot of innings and wear and tear on his knees. Is he AJ like durable, maybe, but that is a major risk over a 4 year window, imo. As much as I hate to say it, I think you stick with Flowers at catcher and focus all of your resources in other areas.

[caulfield12]

Carlos Sanchez is your SS

 

 

Yikes. Hello another season of 5-10 games under .500 baseball.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Trade a reliever for Alexei? Surely we can do better than that.

Just throwing out some Yankees names who the Sox might like. If Robertson and McCarthy are free agents then sign them both.and VMart and the Sox are done . Closer and starting pitcher both not in the upper tier. Though McCarthy has pitched so well for the Yanks could he get a QO ? Betances was an all star this year wasn't he and Alexei is a 33 yr old SS after all .

 

Signing Robertson and McCarthy and getting Betances would go a long way to fixing the pen and the rotation. Then just sign Vmart and fill the hole at SS however you please. Wonder what it would cost in years and money to sign all 3 of those free agents.

[Balta1701]

Yikes. Hello another season of 5-10 games under .500 baseball.

This is entirely possible anyway, but the motivation to do so continues to be "We got a really good haul for Alexei".

[caulfield12]

Just throwing out some Yankees names who the Sox might like. If Robertson and McCarthy are free agents then sign them both.and VMart and the Sox are done . Closer and starting pitcher both not in the upper tier. Though McCarthy has pitched so well for the Yanks could he get a QO ? Betances was an all star this year wasn't he and Alexei is a 33 yr old SS after all .

 

Signing Robertson and McCarthy and getting Betances would go a long way to fixing the pen and the rotation. Then just sign Vmart and fill the hole at SS however you please. Wonder what it would cost in years and money to sign all 3 of those free agents.

 

 

They wouldn't trade Betances for Alexei Ramirez, so you can forget about that one.

 

Robertson's going to be at $10-12 million and then McCarthy would be roughly the same, maybe a bit higher.

 

Pass on both those guys, at those prices. The White Sox traded him back in 2006 for a reason...just as they did with Hudson (the only one they missed out on was Gio, and he's come down to earth in 2014 as well).

[southsider2k5]

Just throwing out some Yankees names who the Sox might like. If Robertson and McCarthy are free agents then sign them both.and VMart and the Sox are done . Closer and starting pitcher both not in the upper tier. Though McCarthy has pitched so well for the Yanks could he get a QO ? Betances was an all star this year wasn't he and Alexei is a 33 yr old SS after all .

 

Signing Robertson and McCarthy and getting Betances would go a long way to fixing the pen and the rotation. Then just sign Vmart and fill the hole at SS however you please. Wonder what it would cost in years and money to sign all 3 of those free agents.

 

With the control the White Sox still have over Alexei, my asking price starts at Gary Sanchez and moves on from there.

[caulfield12]

This is entirely possible anyway, but the motivation to do so continues to be "We got a really good haul for Alexei".

 

 

If it's a JJ Hardy, Jed Lowrie, Stephen Drew or Asdrubal Cabrera veteran type as a placeholder, that's fine.

 

No interest in wasting a full year proving that Sanchez or Leury Garcia aren't the long-term answer at that position.

Edited September 23, 2014 by caulfield12

[Eminor3rd]

So a 33 year old SS won't be part of the next White Sox contender but the Sox should open the check book for a 32 year old catcher and be willing to go 4 years and $60 million.

 

You have been saying Alexei will slip for at least 2 year. Why wouldn't that apply to Martin?

 

I thought I expounded on it a bit in my post, but I'll summarize again: unlike SS, the parts of catcher defense that I consider most critical (game-calling, pitch-framing) are shown to improve with experience, presumably because they are more related to knowledge of the game and muscle memory. His arm may get worse and his bat may get worse, but he'll still be an excellent asset to our pitching staff, and he's got a pretty long way to fall with the arm/bat anyhow.

 

Also, to clarify again: I have been saying Alexei WILL slip for at least two years, but in every instance, I am referring to him slipping within the next few years, NOT the very next season. If you are implying that I have been calling for Alexei's demise over the past couple years, you are incorrect. I think Alexei is good now and will be pretty good in 2015, but I think there's a good chance he's not real good in 2016 and an even better chance in 2017, and those are the years I think we might have a real chance at a championship. Make no mistake -- Alexei's value is propped up by his defense. despite his hot start to this year at the plate, he's been roughly league average overall, and that makes this year substantially better than the last few. If he loses a step on the field and puts up an 85 wRC+, he's suddenly not too special. If Martin loses a tick on the arm and drops down to 100 wRC+, he's still pretty special.

 

[Eminor3rd]

I'd sign Denorfia to a 1 or 2 year deal to hit lefties. You could also sign Rasmus or trade for another lefty outfield bat and platoon the two. Definitely will help our OF defense.

 

I think Denorfia would be a great under-the-radar FA signing for our OF.

[bmags]

I don't think the whole "wait on Tim Anderson to be the answer at SS" train is going to get going until he proves he can field that position more effectively in 2015 than he did the last couple of seasons.

 

Birmingham will be a big test for him. It's a make or break year for him sticking at his highest value position, IMO. To me, right now, I'm going to be more cautious and say he's still more likely to end up at 2B/LF just so I won't be disappointed in the future. If he does remain at SS, that allows for me to be pleasantly surprised at his development.

 

I'd rather have a "plus" LF with good range and oozing with talent and an above average arm for that position (compared to short) than a below-average shortstop...unless Anderson's doubles and triples starting turning into 18-24 homers per season and you live with the errors in order for that kind of bat to be in the line-up at a premium position where 75% of the players league-wide are under a 700 OPS.

 

The wait for Tim Anderson crowd is hopeful because otherwise we are severely downgrading our SS position for no reason except that something different is always better than what you have.

[greg775]

so that's yet one more reason they need to reign it in and hold off spending until next offseason.

Geez, this is like being a Cub fan: Wait til next year. How long are the Sox going to waste Sale and now Abreu? Do what it takes to win a s*** division NOW.

 

Sorry but the Sox only have 30-35M to spend which will not be enough to sign a big named starter, sign a lefty bat and bring in a proven closer. All three of those will be very costly.

If that's all the Sox can spend, Jerry should cut parking in half NOW.

 

Also, trading Alexei is a ridiculous idea. Do some of you WANT to finish last again? Think about how bad the Sox will be at short without Alexei. It will be embarrassingly bad. A whole season of L. Garcia at short? My gosh. Pencil them in for last place for sure with no bat at all there.

Edited September 23, 2014 by greg775

[caulfield12]

I think Denorfia would be a great under-the-radar FA signing for our OF.

 

Sure, as long as he has the right platoon partner.

 

That means they're probably going to have to ditch Sierra...and I just don't see Denorfia/Sierra being a serious answer long-term for one corner OF position.

[2nd_city_saint787]

I've been down on Semien a bit offensively, but if the Sox can get a haul for Lexi then I think he'd be the everyday SS. I wouldn't hate to see what Semien could do with everyday ABs to try and prove my "fears" wrong about him at the dish.

 

Leury would not be the starting SS.

[shysocks]

Geez, this is like being a Cub fan: Wait til next year. How long are the Sox going to waste Sale and now Abreu? Do what it takes to win a s*** division NOW.

 

 

If that's all the Sox can spend, Jerry should cut parking in half NOW.

 

Also, trading Alexei is a ridiculous idea. Do some of you WANT to finish last again? Think about how bad the Sox will be at short without Alexei. It will be embarrassingly bad. A whole season of L. Garcia at short? My gosh. Pencil them in for last place for sure with no bat at all there.

I'm against trading Alexei too, but Leury will certainly not be starting at short, they'd plug in a prospect. Which is not what he is.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

With the control the White Sox still have over Alexei, my asking price starts at Gary Sanchez and moves on from there.

Both ends of the spectrum between yours and Caulfields responses. I'm more in line with Caulfield . The Yanks wouldn't trade Betances for Alexei and Gary Sanchez isn't at all what he's cracked up to be . He's had discipline problems at AA and didnt hit all that well.

 

If you want instant contender , VMart, Robertson,and BMac gives you a very strong 2015 . Try getting the Yanks to take Danks too while your at it .Even eat some salary if you think you can sign the FA's I mentioned . Heck I might trade Alexei and Danks both for Betances if I knew I could sign VMart, Robertson and BMac with Rodon and Bassitt on the horizon with the outside chance Erik Johson could bounce back. Pen fixed, rotation fixed , lineup much stronger.

 

If you think Robertson and BMac add up to $24M /yr and lets say 2/3 yrs of VMart at $20M /yr that's $44M added to the annual payroll minus Danks salary of $14 M is only $30M added to the annual payroll for a 3 yr period maybe for each player. By the time those contracts end Rodon or Bassitt or Montas or Danish or some combination of them move into the rotation so not only do you have instant contender but a window to work the young pitchers into the rotation while still competing.

Edited September 23, 2014 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside