Let's Grade the Players, Coaches, Hahn for 2014

[Jerksticks]

I wish more people would post their grades, then mine wouldn't be so scrutinized. I never thought this thread would turn into this.

 

You make a compelling statement/sentence, but I grade them based on the factors I've listed in my many posts: acquisitions, record of the team. I just am stupified that people think he's way better than a C, which is an average grade. Believe me, if the Sox ever contend again til the final week of the season I WILL give Mr. Hahn credit.

 

Man I feel like your grade of C is for the team on the field, its W-L record, the lack of playoffs and just generally how it all played out in 2014. And I understand your point that Hahn is responsible for the players on the field, and I think he really screwed up with every FA not named Abreu this year. But Greg Abreu is sooo good that he personally lifted our offense out of the toilet and is the single reason we are talking about contention in 2015 and can use words like retooling instead of rebuilding.

 

Greg do you feel like Hahn has accelerated the rebuild or not, just in general. Like do you weigh the Davidson blunder equally with the Abreu success?

 

 

[greg775]

Abreu is sooo good that he personally lifted our offense out of the toilet and is the single reason we are talking about contention in 2015 and can use words like retooling instead of rebuilding.

 

Greg do you feel like Hahn has accelerated the rebuild or not, just in general. Like do you weigh the Davidson blunder equally with the Abreu success?

 

Well, my opinion is the Reed trade really hurt the bullpen and knocked everything out of kilter. It would have been nice to have a proven closer, a guy capable of getting 31 saves like Reed. As bad as some say he is, I think staying in Chicago as the established closer would have helped him even more and he'd have had minimum of 31 saves for the Sox. So I do feel the Davidson blunder was very costly and big in my giving him a C.

Jerk, I am not sure we are in a position to contend in 2015. I'm not in that camp. Not right now. Nobody has given me a GREAT reason to up my grade of C to B.

Now ... if two moves, Abreu and Eaton were so good and I'm mistaken, then yes, I'll give him the B. I thought the bullpen and the 89 losses and horrid defense added up to a C.

 

In answer to your question, I think he has accelerated the rebuild because of Abreu/Eaton but at this point in time the team remains an 89-loss team next season. Hopefully he has a plan, which he probably does, and we'll get to .500.

Edited September 30, 2014 by greg775

[chitownsportsfan]

I wish more people would post their grades, then mine wouldn't be so scrutinized. I never thought this thread would turn into this.

 

You make a compelling statement/sentence, but I grade them based on the factors I've listed in my many posts: acquisitions, record of the team. I just am stupefied that people think he's way better than a C, which is an average grade. Believe me, if the Sox ever contend again til the final week of the season I WILL give Mr. Hahn credit.

 

 

Rome wasn't built in a day. The Sox team Hahn inherited was awful. Outside of the Cubs and 'Stros, and argument could be made coming into this season the Sox had the worst MLB talent in all of MLB in '13. Furthermore, unlike those teams, the Sox also were in the unevniable position as having a bottom 5 farm.

 

In fact, when he took over, there were really only 3-5 players on the entire 40 man roster you'd consider possible starters on the next Sox playoff team: Alexei, Quintana, and Sale ok for sure, then name 2 more from the opening day roster in '13. It's slim pickings.

 

Hahn has accomplished in a very short time a) getting the team's MLB talent back to mediocre and b) getting the MilB talent back to mediocre (or possibly even good depending on how highly you view Rodon/Adama/Danish/Montas/Bassitt.

 

He's done this without bumping payroll, in fact he's done this while CUTTING payroll. The team is younger, has 3 foundational players (and contracts) and has enough prospects and payroll flexibility to make a run starting possibly as soon as next year.

 

You don't go from 68 wins or whatever to 90 overnight. That they were 10 better this season while still playing a bunch of dead wood (to see if it wasn't quite rotted to the core in the case of most of it) is a very impressive GM job.

 

Look at how other team's flounder in their tear downs. Hahn did in 1 offseason what it took the 'Stros and Cubs to do in 3-4 and he's done it with hardly any bad mistakes.

 

You can preach on about how awful Paulino was but come on man, he was basically a spring invite that cost the amount of revenue from 1/162 of their MLBAM share. It was a nothing cost move that cost them nothing, and might have even (ya!) gotten them a protected 8th pick rather than a non protected later pick.

 

Anyways, my grades, don't care about the pen won't list them other than as a group:

 

position players

nieto: D: --upside is there but needs more seasoning in AAA. Framing awful, hitting has potential, good tools. turned in a OK year for a backup catcher but I'm not gonna curve grade

flowers: C- --late season surge and steady defense earn him a passing grade but hardly a standout year

Kong: D- -- bumped revenue, was like -2 WAR on field.

Abreu: A -- turned from incomplete slugger to triple threat down the stretch, one of the top 5 hitters in MLB, stud. played in 145 games, proved fairly durable if fatigued at end

Beckham: D- --defense was usual solid, but with such an awful bat he'd need to be the wiz at SS to carry a 260 OBP.

Semian: C- -- showed flashes but also major holes in his game. was hurt by the move to 3B IMO but his bat was MIA except for a few late game heroics

Sanchez: C- -- really could be a D but at times an elite glove at 2B. Hitting obviously needs to improve but with that glove he could carry a 260/300/340 type line. Him and Semian will be key next year to any thoughts of contention imo

Alexei: B+ -- another year of staying healthy and putting up around 4 WAR. Very much enjoy watching Alexei and his bat was pretty good for a SS in 2014. they don't hit like they did in the sillyball era

Conor: B- -- again, no curves, ended up 1.2 fWAR and 1.6 bWAR, which eh, is probably what he is. Needs a platoon partner badly. Could be why Semian is playing so much 3B -- he's the platoon in '15.

Keppinger: F -- if he had played, he would have sucked.

Garcia: C+ -- Bat was even slower than usual after the injury but ran into enough and took enough walks to where you can squint and see a pretty damn good hitter. Middle case seems he'll be an OK starter. Hard worker to come back.

Moises: C+ -- toolsy. May never be more than a 4th OF, but worth taking a flyer on in '15 spring

Taylor: INC -- nothing there

Tank: D -- brutal defense, no average, decent power, adds up to a below replacement level player that will probably be traded for scraps

Eaton: B+ -- easy A if he had played 150 games instead of 123. Gets on base at a good clip (361), plays great defense, and can run the bases a bit. Not much of a base stealer but his reads and 1st to 3rd are top notch.

Danks: D- -- one day he'll have a lifetime job in the sox marketing dpt if he wants.

Leury: F -- sucks, should have been in AAA but Sox were incredibly thin at SS depth

Willkins: F -- see, Danks. future FO mid level executive if he wants

 

starters:

Sale: A- -- some injury time missed, otherwise can't ask for more, top 3 starter in MLB.

Q: A- -- workhorse, went over 200 ip, tough luck loser often, but top 15 mlb starter

Johnson: F -- has to be injured, lost his razor thin margin when he went from 90-92 to 88-90. Not optimistic he'll ever bounce back, seems to have a shoulder problem

Paulino: F -- easy come easy go

Carroll : D+ -- actually was a decent facsmille of a MLB quality 4thish, 5th starter at times. Othertimes proved he's a long man at best, absolute best.

Noesi: C -- did a solid job, passable 4th starter in a mediocre rotation, solid 5th in a good one though. cheap for the next couple years good pickup

bassit: C+ -- if he can keep that control up he'll be a solid MLB starter. Not sure he really can though.

 

Pen, grade as whole: F -- Only guys with decent FIPS are I believe Putnam and Petricka. Eveyrone else pretty much sucked.

 

FO:

 

Hahn: A -- see above

Robin: D -- players like him. awful tactician, has no concept of platoons and lineup construction. loves to make a move only to be easily countered by the opposing team

Cooper: B -- didn't have much to work with, made some improvements with Noesi. The cream rose with Q and Sale. Will have his most important project since Sale next year with Rodon.

Stevenson: B -- In general, I think he was a positive influence but maybe only because the talent was better.

 

Team grade:

 

B-: An exciting year that had many great walk off wins and some elite indidivudal performances. The Sox haven't had a hitter this good since Frank. They haven't had a pitcher this good since...? The bullpen was awful,a function of throwing a bunch of s*** at the wall and hoping it turned into gold plated s***. Didn't happen and the team also gave up a ton of runs at the margins with awful defense in the corners (for the most part) and below replacement batting lines spread throughout the lineup. THe future however should see those holes filled, either through acquiring some salary and/or trades, or in house prospects.

Edited September 30, 2014 by chitownsportsfan

[greg775]

Rome wasn't built in a day. The Sox team Hahn inherited was awful. Outside of the Cubs and 'Stros, and argument could be made coming into this season the Sox had the worst MLB talent in all of MLB in '13. Furthermore, unlike those teams, the Sox also were in the unevniable position as having a bottom 5 farm.

 

In fact, when he took over, there were really only 3-5 players on the entire 40 man roster you'd consider possible starters on the next Sox playoff team: Alexei, Quintana, and Sale ok for sure, then name 2 more from the opening day roster in '13. It's slim pickings.

 

Hahn has accomplished in a very short time a) getting the team's MLB talent back to mediocre and b) getting the MilB talent back to mediocre (or possibly even good depending on how highly you view Rodon/Adama/Danish/Montas/Bassitt.

 

He's done this without bumping payroll, in fact he's done this while CUTTING payroll. The team is younger, has 3 foundational players (and contracts) and has enough prospects and payroll flexibility to make a run starting possibly as soon as next year.

 

You don't go from 68 wins or whatever to 90 overnight. That they were 10 better this season while still playing a bunch of dead wood (to see if it wasn't quite rotted to the core in the case of most of it) is a very impressive GM job.

 

Look at how other team's flounder in their tear downs. Hahn did in 1 offseason what it took the 'Stros and Cubs to do in 3-4 and he's done it with hardly any bad mistakes.

 

You can preach on about how awful Paulino was but come on man, he was basically a spring invite that cost the amount of revenue from 1/162 of their MLBAM share. It was a nothing cost move that cost them nothing, and might have even (ya!) gotten them a protected 8th pick rather than a non protected later pick.

 

Anyways, my grades, don't care about the pen won't list them other than as a group:

 

position players

nieto: D: --upside is there but needs more seasoning in AAA. Framing awful, hitting has potential, good tools. turned in a OK year for a backup catcher but I'm not gonna curve grade

flowers: C- --late season surge and steady defense earn him a passing grade but hardly a standout year

Kong: D- -- bumped revenue, was like -2 WAR on field.

Abreu: A -- turned from incomplete slugger to triple threat down the stretch, one of the top 5 hitters in MLB, stud. played in 145 games, proved fairly durable if fatigued at end

Beckham: D- --defense was usual solid, but with such an awful bat he'd need to be the wiz at SS to carry a 260 OBP.

Semian: C- -- showed flashes but also major holes in his game. was hurt by the move to 3B IMO but his bat was MIA except for a few late game heroics

Sanchez: C- -- really could be a D but at times an elite glove at 2B. Hitting obviously needs to improve but with that glove he could carry a 260/300/340 type line. Him and Semian will be key next year to any thoughts of contention imo

Alexei: B+ -- another year of staying healthy and putting up around 4 WAR. Very much enjoy watching Alexei and his bat was pretty good for a SS in 2014. they don't hit like they did in the sillyball era

Conor: B- -- again, no curves, ended up 1.2 fWAR and 1.6 bWAR, which eh, is probably what he is. Needs a platoon partner badly. Could be why Semian is playing so much 3B -- he's the platoon in '15.

Keppinger: F -- if he had played, he would have sucked.

Garcia: C+ -- Bat was even slower than usual after the injury but ran into enough and took enough walks to where you can squint and see a pretty damn good hitter. Middle case seems he'll be an OK starter. Hard worker to come back.

Moises: C+ -- toolsy. May never be more than a 4th OF, but worth taking a flyer on in '15 spring

Taylor: INC -- nothing there

Tank: D -- brutal defense, no average, decent power, adds up to a below replacement level player that will probably be traded for scraps

Eaton: B+ -- easy A if he had played 150 games instead of 123. Gets on base at a good clip (361), plays great defense, and can run the bases a bit. Not much of a base stealer but his reads and 1st to 3rd are top notch.

Danks: D- -- one day he'll have a lifetime job in the sox marketing dpt if he wants.

Leury: F -- sucks, should have been in AAA but Sox were incredibly thin at SS depth

Willkins: F -- see, Danks. future FO mid level executive if he wants

 

starters:

Sale: A- -- some injury time missed, otherwise can't ask for more, top 3 starter in MLB.

Q: A- -- workhorse, went over 200 ip, tough luck loser often, but top 15 mlb starter

Johnson: F -- has to be injured, lost his razor thin margin when he went from 90-92 to 88-90. Not optimistic he'll ever bounce back, seems to have a shoulder problem

Paulino: F -- easy come easy go

Carroll : D+ -- actually was a decent facsmille of a MLB quality 4thish, 5th starter at times. Othertimes proved he's a long man at best, absolute best.

Noesi: C -- did a solid job, passable 4th starter in a mediocre rotation, solid 5th in a good one though. cheap for the next couple years good pickup

bassit: C+ -- if he can keep that control up he'll be a solid MLB starter. Not sure he really can though.

 

Pen, grade as whole: F -- Only guys with decent FIPS are I believe Putnam and Petricka. Eveyrone else pretty much sucked.

 

FO:

 

Hahn: A -- see above

Robin: D -- players like him. awful tactician, has no concept of platoons and lineup construction. loves to make a move only to be easily countered by the opposing team

Cooper: B -- didn't have much to work with, made some improvements with Noesi. The cream rose with Q and Sale. Will have his most important project since Sale next year with Rodon.

Stevenson: B -- In general, I think he was a positive influence but maybe only because the talent was better.

 

Team grade:

 

B-: An exciting year that had many great walk off wins and some elite indidivudal performances. The Sox haven't had a hitter this good since Frank. They haven't had a pitcher this good since...? The bullpen was awful,a function of throwing a bunch of s*** at the wall and hoping it turned into gold plated s***. Didn't happen and the team also gave up a ton of runs at the margins with awful defense in the corners (for the most part) and below replacement batting lines spread throughout the lineup. THe future however should see those holes filled, either through acquiring some salary and/or trades, or in house prospects.

 

Awesome post. Good reading. Some astute points and well written. Glad to see somebody else isn't proclaming Noesi the next Tom Seaver.

Edited September 30, 2014 by greg775

[BlackSox13]

Here are my grades for this season. I'll give the team a C-minus though I wouldn't argue with D.

 

Abreu: A-plus. He had 36 HRS, 107 RBI. Everybody likey.

Beckham: D. He stunk and his tenure was blah. (Sanchez in 27 games hit .247; Semien hit .233 in 63 games; both get Incompletes). The eye test tells me Semien will be a good player.

Alexei: A. He hit .273 with 74 RBI.

Gillaspie: B. I wouldn't argue B-plus. He hit .282 with 57 RBI in 130 games.

Viciedo: D. He hit 21 homers and only drove in 58, barely hitting .230. He's an underachiever to date.

Eaton: A. We all know he was great.

A. Garcia: B to B-minus. Hit .250 in 45 games. Showed a lot of guts to come back so quickly.

Flowers: C. Hit .240 with 15 homers. 50 RBIs.

Paulie: I'd like to give him an incomplete as a favor to my idol. If I have to give a grade I'd give him a D.

Dunn: 20 home runs in 360 at bats. That's not so horrendous. I'll give him a C this year. For his Sox career a big fat D.

Moises Sierra, Danks and guys like that didn't play a lot. Not a big fan of that duo.

Quintana: B. 3.32 ERA is fine.

Sale: A-plus. He's good.

Danks: C. He was 11-11? Not bad for an 89-loss team. I realize we don't care about wins and losses of pitchers anymore.

Noesi: C. 8-11 record.

Carroll: C-. Was 5-10 I love everything about him except his stuff.

I'll give all the relievers a D except Petricka and Putnam who get Cs. And Bella of course gets an F. I can't bring myself to mention each guy.

 

Robin: He gets a C. The team was a couple games over .500 at a fairly late date then sucked. I wouldn't argue C-.

Hahn: C. He improved the team some but the team is still lousy and not a contender.

Jerry Reinsdorf: D. No sense of urgency from the big guy.

That's it for now. I think we have some good players. At this time, I'm really down on our bullpen and down on Viciedo.

Soxtalk posters: C. I wouldn't argue B-. Still a reluctance to start new threads with people thinking a new thread is evil for some reason. People love the catchall threads more than new threads. Not a lot of activity on the baseball board. Lot of lurkers need to start posting more. The new posters were awesome this season. Of my own posting I'd give myself a B-. I put passion into my posts even if many of you despise me. Cheers to the White Sox.

I'll play along. I don't mind being graded for my grades.

 

Abreu- agreed on the A+. The numbers, the way he carries himself and how he took over the team speaks for itself.

Beckham- agreed on the D. He tried but s***ty numbers and injuries are what they are.

Alexei- agreed on the A. Year after year he quietly has a hell of a season. Like Abreu, he carries himself very well!

Gillaspie- B+. Would be an easy A if only he matched his 2013 HR totals. Still, the increase in BA and doubles helps tremendously.

Viciedo- C . IMO, his only saving grace was his 21 HR's. Other than that I'm looking forward to trading him, god willing!

Eaton- A minus. The minus from how he needs to learn to be more disciplined as a defender to avoid injuries.

Avi- I won't grade since he missed so much although I was very impressed with him coming back so early.

Flowers- B. Improved defensively and so did his bat. I think his improvements will allow the Sox to look at spending money to fill other holes in more need.

Paulie- no grade for a guy that I held no expectations on. This was his fair well season after all.

Dunn- sigh, his numbers are nothing impressive but I respect him for how he handled himself during his struggles. I give him a C minus based on tat.

Q- A plus. Improved yet again at the tender age of 25 and has solidified the #2 spot in the rotation, IMHO.

Sale- A plus. I know he spent time on the DL but he bounced back injury free after that and put up great numbers.

Danks- D. Sorry, but his over numbers suck in relation to his pay despite having some good streaks. This doesn't mean he cannot or will not improve in 2015 tho.

Noesi- B minus. He came a long way very fast and filled a void that the Sox desperately needed filled. I really am impressed.

Carroll- C+. Not the best numbers as a starter but I like him as a reliever. Overall I think he did well for a guy that was thrown into the fire. Definitely a future long man reliever.

Sanchez and Semien- I liked what I saw and want to see more. No grades.

Robin- agreed with the C. Didn't always make the best decisions by any means but he also deserves a break on what he had to work with as well.

Hahn- B minus. Some moves worked out and some didn't. I do love the direction Hahn has this team going and I think Hahn and his scouts had a very good draft.

JR- no grade since we all knew this was a rebuilding year.

 

 

That's all for grading from me. I will leave it at that. Go Sox!

[southsider2k5]

I wish more people would post their grades, then mine wouldn't be so scrutinized. I never thought this thread would turn into this.

 

You make a compelling statement/sentence, but I grade them based on the factors I've listed in my many posts: acquisitions, record of the team. I just am stupified that people think he's way better than a C, which is an average grade. Believe me, if the Sox ever contend again til the final week of the season I WILL give Mr. Hahn credit.

 

I posted mine, which you "scrutinized". So tell me, who has done better, and why.

[daggins]

I would post my grades but they don't vary significantly from what others have posted. So here are some fake grades -

 

Hahn - F - He already graded himself! Who am I to argue? Are you smarter than Rick Hahn, boy genius?

Steverson - F - He was the hitting coach, but he didn't hit once this year. Not. Even. Once.

Joe McEwing - A+ My favorite windmill

Robin Ventura - A - Look at this way - he had a lousy team with no hope of reinforcements, and he had to deal with Harold Baines, aka King Douche

Harold Baines - F - What a douche

Steve Stone - C - Branching out into PBP, trying to become a more fully rounded person, Stone is humanity itself. There's a little Steve Stone in all of us, trying to get out. A good contrast to...

Hawkbot 2000 - 01101010 - DADGUMMIT YOU CAN PUT IT ON THE CAN OF CORN MATT ABATTACOLA BZZT MALFUNCTION CORE OVERHEATING

Southpaw - Like, Groovy Man - Keep on truckin'

[LittleHurt05]

Well, my opinion is the Reed trade really hurt the bullpen and knocked everything out of kilter. It would have been nice to have a proven closer, a guy capable of getting 31 saves like Reed. As bad as some say he is, I think staying in Chicago as the established closer would have helped him even more and he'd have had minimum of 31 saves for the Sox. So I do feel the Davidson blunder was very costly and big in my giving him a C.

Jerk, I am not sure we are in a position to contend in 2015. I'm not in that camp. Not right now. Nobody has given me a GREAT reason to up my grade of C to B.

Now ... if two moves, Abreu and Eaton were so good and I'm mistaken, then yes, I'll give him the B. I thought the bullpen and the 89 losses and horrid defense added up to a C.

 

In answer to your question, I think he has accelerated the rebuild because of Abreu/Eaton but at this point in time the team remains an 89-loss team next season. Hopefully he has a plan, which he probably does, and we'll get to .500.

 

Nate Jo... Oh, never mind.

[Kyyle23]

Ok, i think we have established that the greg grading system is a mystery befitting of the Illuminati, and will probably never fully be explained.

 

So lets issue our own grades and stop beating our heads into brick walls trying to figure it out

[SCCWS]

Rome wasn't built in a day. The Sox team Hahn inherited was awful. Outside of the Cubs and 'Stros, and argument could be made coming into this season the Sox had the worst MLB talent in all of MLB in '13. Furthermore, unlike those teams, the Sox also were in the unevniable position as having a bottom 5 farm.

 

In fact, when he took over, there were really only 3-5 players on the entire 40 man roster you'd consider possible starters on the next Sox playoff team: Alexei, Quintana, and Sale ok for sure, then name 2 more from the opening day roster in '13. It's slim pickings.

 

Hahn has accomplished in a very short time a) getting the team's MLB talent back to mediocre and b) getting the MilB talent back to mediocre (or possibly even good depending on how highly you view Rodon/Adama/Danish/Montas/Bassitt.

 

He's done this without bumping payroll, in fact he's done this while CUTTING payroll. The team is younger, has 3 foundational players (and contracts) and has enough prospects and payroll flexibility to make a run starting possibly as soon as next year.

 

You don't go from 68 wins or whatever to 90 overnight. That they were 10 better this season while still playing a bunch of dead wood (to see if it wasn't quite rotted to the core in the case of most of it) is a very impressive GM job.

 

Look at how other team's flounder in their tear downs. Hahn did in 1 offseason what it took the 'Stros and Cubs to do in 3-4 and he's done it with hardly any bad mistakes.

 

You can preach on about how awful Paulino was but come on man, he was basically a spring invite that cost the amount of revenue from 1/162 of their MLBAM share. It was a nothing cost move that cost them nothing, and might have even (ya!) gotten them a protected 8th pick rather than a non protected later pick.

 

Anyways, my grades, don't care about the pen won't list them other than as a group:

 

position players

nieto: D: --upside is there but needs more seasoning in AAA. Framing awful, hitting has potential, good tools. turned in a OK year for a backup catcher but I'm not gonna curve grade

flowers: C- --late season surge and steady defense earn him a passing grade but hardly a standout year

Kong: D- -- bumped revenue, was like -2 WAR on field.

Abreu: A -- turned from incomplete slugger to triple threat down the stretch, one of the top 5 hitters in MLB, stud. played in 145 games, proved fairly durable if fatigued at end

Beckham: D- --defense was usual solid, but with such an awful bat he'd need to be the wiz at SS to carry a 260 OBP.

Semian: C- -- showed flashes but also major holes in his game. was hurt by the move to 3B IMO but his bat was MIA except for a few late game heroics

Sanchez: C- -- really could be a D but at times an elite glove at 2B. Hitting obviously needs to improve but with that glove he could carry a 260/300/340 type line. Him and Semian will be key next year to any thoughts of contention imo

Alexei: B+ -- another year of staying healthy and putting up around 4 WAR. Very much enjoy watching Alexei and his bat was pretty good for a SS in 2014. they don't hit like they did in the sillyball era

Conor: B- -- again, no curves, ended up 1.2 fWAR and 1.6 bWAR, which eh, is probably what he is. Needs a platoon partner badly. Could be why Semian is playing so much 3B -- he's the platoon in '15.

Keppinger: F -- if he had played, he would have sucked.

Garcia: C+ -- Bat was even slower than usual after the injury but ran into enough and took enough walks to where you can squint and see a pretty damn good hitter. Middle case seems he'll be an OK starter. Hard worker to come back.

Moises: C+ -- toolsy. May never be more than a 4th OF, but worth taking a flyer on in '15 spring

Taylor: INC -- nothing there

Tank: D -- brutal defense, no average, decent power, adds up to a below replacement level player that will probably be traded for scraps

Eaton: B+ -- easy A if he had played 150 games instead of 123. Gets on base at a good clip (361), plays great defense, and can run the bases a bit. Not much of a base stealer but his reads and 1st to 3rd are top notch.

Danks: D- -- one day he'll have a lifetime job in the sox marketing dpt if he wants.

Leury: F -- sucks, should have been in AAA but Sox were incredibly thin at SS depth

Willkins: F -- see, Danks. future FO mid level executive if he wants

 

starters:

Sale: A- -- some injury time missed, otherwise can't ask for more, top 3 starter in MLB.

Q: A- -- workhorse, went over 200 ip, tough luck loser often, but top 15 mlb starter

Johnson: F -- has to be injured, lost his razor thin margin when he went from 90-92 to 88-90. Not optimistic he'll ever bounce back, seems to have a shoulder problem

Paulino: F -- easy come easy go

Carroll : D+ -- actually was a decent facsmille of a MLB quality 4thish, 5th starter at times. Othertimes proved he's a long man at best, absolute best.

Noesi: C -- did a solid job, passable 4th starter in a mediocre rotation, solid 5th in a good one though. cheap for the next couple years good pickup

bassit: C+ -- if he can keep that control up he'll be a solid MLB starter. Not sure he really can though.

 

Pen, grade as whole: F -- Only guys with decent FIPS are I believe Putnam and Petricka. Eveyrone else pretty much sucked.

 

FO:

 

Hahn: A -- see above

Robin: D -- players like him. awful tactician, has no concept of platoons and lineup construction. loves to make a move only to be easily countered by the opposing team

Cooper: B -- didn't have much to work with, made some improvements with Noesi. The cream rose with Q and Sale. Will have his most important project since Sale next year with Rodon.

Stevenson: B -- In general, I think he was a positive influence but maybe only because the talent was better.

 

Team grade:

 

B-: An exciting year that had many great walk off wins and some elite indidivudal performances. The Sox haven't had a hitter this good since Frank. They haven't had a pitcher this good since...? The bullpen was awful,a function of throwing a bunch of s*** at the wall and hoping it turned into gold plated s***. Didn't happen and the team also gave up a ton of runs at the margins with awful defense in the corners (for the most part) and below replacement batting lines spread throughout the lineup. THe future however should see those holes filled, either through acquiring some salary and/or trades, or in house prospects.

 

When Robin was hired, I was one of the posters who complained that hiring a manager with zero experience was a bad move. Many people defended the move saying that a manager does not need experience to do a good job. Now I think the bullpen and overall weak roster was the main problem with the 2014 team. That weak roster extended to the AAA team since that is where teams look to find replacements for injuries and non-performers. You give Hahn an A and he is responsible for the overall weak lineup and the makeup of the bullpen. You give Cooper a B and he is responsible for the production from that bullpen that Hahn gave him. But you give Robin a D for the overall results. If Hahn had assembled a good bullpen or if Cooper developed a good bullpen the team probably was a .500 team. That would have made robin a pretty good manager.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I wish more people would post their grades, then mine wouldn't be so scrutinized. I never thought this thread would turn into this.

 

You make a compelling statement/sentence, but I grade them based on the factors I've listed in my many posts: acquisitions, record of the team. I just am stupified that people think he's way better than a C, which is an average grade. Believe me, if the Sox ever contend again til the final week of the season I WILL give Mr. Hahn credit.

 

 

I'm not posting grades for irrelevant players that have no bearing on the future of the White Sox. Sale and Q both get A's. Abreu and Eaton get A's. All 4 lived up to or exceeded expectations. Avisail is an incomplete because of the injury. The front office gets an A because there wasn't more they could have done. It's well been well documented throughout this thread how good of a job Hahn has done. I mean of course terrible baseball players will get terrible grades from a message board poster. I don't have the time for that though.

[knightni]

starters:

Sale: A- -- some injury time missed, otherwise can't ask for more, top 3 starter in MLB.

Q: A- -- workhorse, went over 200 ip, tough luck loser often, but top 15 mlb starter

Johnson: F -- has to be injured, lost his razor thin margin when he went from 90-92 to 88-90. Not optimistic he'll ever bounce back, seems to have a shoulder problem

Paulino: F -- easy come easy go

Carroll : D+ -- actually was a decent facsmille of a MLB quality 4thish, 5th starter at times. Othertimes proved he's a long man at best, absolute best.

Noesi: C -- did a solid job, passable 4th starter in a mediocre rotation, solid 5th in a good one though. cheap for the next couple years good pickup

bassit: C+ -- if he can keep that control up he'll be a solid MLB starter. Not sure he really can though.

 

Pen, grade as whole: F -- Only guys with decent FIPS are I believe Putnam and Petricka. Eveyrone else pretty much sucked.

 

I'm sure that Danks gets a D- or F, but I didn't see him there.

[Jerksticks]

When Robin was hired, I was one of the posters who complained that hiring a manager with zero experience was a bad move. Many people defended the move saying that a manager does not need experience to do a good job. Now I think the bullpen and overall weak roster was the main problem with the 2014 team. That weak roster extended to the AAA team since that is where teams look to find replacements for injuries and non-performers. You give Hahn an A and he is responsible for the overall weak lineup and the makeup of the bullpen. You give Cooper a B and he is responsible for the production from that bullpen that Hahn gave him. But you give Robin a D for the overall results. If Hahn had assembled a good bullpen or if Cooper developed a good bullpen the team probably was a .500 team. That would have made robin a pretty good manager.

 

I've been a Robin supporter but his lack of experience shows. How can you expect a guy with no history of leadership to be a good manager. I mean the closest position to leadership he ever held was being a junior senator from Illino...strikingly similar.

[knightni]

A's - Sale, Quintana, Abreu, Putnam

 

B's - Ramirez, Gillaspie, Eaton, Guerra, Petricka

 

C's - Flowers, Garcia, Sierra, Noesi, Dunn, Bassitt

 

D's - Viciedo, Beckham, Semien, Nieto, Danks, Webb, Cleto

 

F's - Pretty much everyone else.

[witesoxfan]

I would post my grades but they don't vary significantly from what others have posted. So here are some fake grades -

 

Hahn - F - He already graded himself! Who am I to argue? Are you smarter than Rick Hahn, boy genius?

Steverson - F - He was the hitting coach, but he didn't hit once this year. Not. Even. Once.

Joe McEwing - A+ My favorite windmill

Robin Ventura - A - Look at this way - he had a lousy team with no hope of reinforcements, and he had to deal with Harold Baines, aka King Douche

Harold Baines - F - What a douche

Steve Stone - C - Branching out into PBP, trying to become a more fully rounded person, Stone is humanity itself. There's a little Steve Stone in all of us, trying to get out. A good contrast to...

Hawkbot 2000 - 01101010 - DADGUMMIT YOU CAN PUT IT ON THE CAN OF CORN MATT ABATTACOLA BZZT MALFUNCTION CORE OVERHEATING

Southpaw - Like, Groovy Man - Keep on truckin'

 

This post has not gotten enough dap. This is awesome.

[witesoxfan]

Well, in answer to your question, the team did improve by 10, but 99 to 89 does not thrill me. It is progress, though. I think my angry bullpen posts show that indeed I blamed Hahn heavily for that disaster. The Reed trade ...

 

I think this is what bugs me the most. First and foremost, a 10 game improvement is a 10 game improvement no matter how you slice it. If they improve by another 10 games next year, they're above .500 and competing for a Wild Card spot and possibly division title all year. That's not chop suey. This team also included two guys - Paul Konerko and Leury Garcia - who had to be on the roster together because of what each of them brought. Those two combined for -2 WAR. Simply be removing those players are getting two guys in who can play their position(s) and hit a little bit, the Sox have improved their team already, and that's not including adding a starting pitcher, improving the bullpen, or finding a good LF.

 

Also, if you know the team isn't going to be good going into the season, then spending a lot on a bullpen is a bit of a waste. A bullpen alone isn't going to make or break your season if the team behind it isn't that good, and this team wasn't. So you take a few chances on guys and try and find a diamond in the rough here or there and if they don't work out, you move on. The Sox moved on from Downs because it appeared he was done. They didn't from Belisario because you could see from him pitching that his stuff is still there and very real, but he has a tendency to miss with his pitches out over the plate, where they get hit very hard. Still, there are a few guys who should compete for a role in the bullpen that they found this year and then they'll got out and make a few moves. It's not totally unreasonable nor unheard of that a bullpen goes from crap to awesome in an offseason, but you want to get everything else in place before that time.

[harfman77]

The problems in general are, that RBI and pitching wins are not accurate assessments for players anymore.

 

They have no control of either of those stats.

 

They never really were good assessments. Too dependent on others to really measure what a player can do.

[Dick Allen]

I think this is what bugs me the most. First and foremost, a 10 game improvement is a 10 game improvement no matter how you slice it. If they improve by another 10 games next year, they're above .500 and competing for a Wild Card spot and possibly division title all year. That's not chop suey. This team also included two guys - Paul Konerko and Leury Garcia - who had to be on the roster together because of what each of them brought. Those two combined for -2 WAR. Simply be removing those players are getting two guys in who can play their position(s) and hit a little bit, the Sox have improved their team already, and that's not including adding a starting pitcher, improving the bullpen, or finding a good LF.

 

Also, if you know the team isn't going to be good going into the season, then spending a lot on a bullpen is a bit of a waste. A bullpen alone isn't going to make or break your season if the team behind it isn't that good, and this team wasn't. So you take a few chances on guys and try and find a diamond in the rough here or there and if they don't work out, you move on. The Sox moved on from Downs because it appeared he was done. They didn't from Belisario because you could see from him pitching that his stuff is still there and very real, but he has a tendency to miss with his pitches out over the plate, where they get hit very hard. Still, there are a few guys who should compete for a role in the bullpen that they found this year and then they'll got out and make a few moves. It's not totally unreasonable nor unheard of that a bullpen goes from crap to awesome in an offseason, but you want to get everything else in place before that time.

 

 

 

 

The thing is, you can have a crap team with a good bullpen and compete for the playoffs. Just look at the Indians. Swisher was god awful. Kipnis was down. Bourne was hurt. Asdrubal and Masterson sent packing and bad. Yet they put together an almost entirely new bullpen that was nails and were in it until the last week or so.

[Balta1701]

The thing is, you can have a crap team with a good bullpen and compete for the playoffs. Just look at the Indians. Swisher was god awful. Kipnis was down. Bourne was hurt. Asdrubal and Masterson sent packing and bad. Yet they put together an almost entirely new bullpen that was nails and were in it until the last week or so.

It's not quite entirely that simple...they still had a "middle of the pack" starting rotation (8th in the AL in ERA, so literally middle of the pack) and an offense that was 7th in the AL despite those things. Their defense was terrible, which is probably why they actually missed the playoffs as much as anything else. I will go with you if you say "A really good bullpen, an average offense, an average starting staff, and an average defensive squad" puts a team right on the edge of making the playoffs and probably in.

[witesoxfan]

The thing is, you can have a crap team with a good bullpen and compete for the playoffs. Just look at the Indians. Swisher was god awful. Kipnis was down. Bourne was hurt. Asdrubal and Masterson sent packing and bad. Yet they put together an almost entirely new bullpen that was nails and were in it until the last week or so.

 

Brantley, Gomes, and Santana were all really good players for them though too. I think it would be hard to say they had a crap team, but probably a mediocre team. They also had Corey Kluber who was ridiculous this year too.

 

It's hard to say exactly, but I don't think it's a stretch to say that a good bullpen would have gotten the Sox to .500 this year and I think that's the high end of that. Anything more than that - 83 wins or 85 wins - IS a stretch.

[Eminor3rd]

The thing is, you can have a crap team with a good bullpen and compete for the playoffs. Just look at the Indians. Swisher was god awful. Kipnis was down. Bourne was hurt. Asdrubal and Masterson sent packing and bad. Yet they put together an almost entirely new bullpen that was nails and were in it until the last week or so.

 

But what is the difference between their bullpen plan and ours? Theirs could have imploded too.

 

The Sox actually have a great recent track record of piecing together good bullpens with strong arms from the farm system complemented by a couple veterans. They failed this year, but the process is one that's worked in the past and is no different from the processes working elsewhere.

[Dick Allen]

But what is the difference between their bullpen plan and ours? Theirs could have imploded too.

 

The Sox actually have a great recent track record of piecing together good bullpens with strong arms from the farm system complemented by a couple veterans. They failed this year, but the process is one that's worked in the past and is no different from the processes working elsewhere.

But it didn't. They picked the correct guys. That happens to be the most important part of the process.

 

 

 

 

[Dick Allen]

Brantley, Gomes, and Santana were all really good players for them though too. I think it would be hard to say they had a crap team, but probably a mediocre team. They also had Corey Kluber who was ridiculous this year too.

 

It's hard to say exactly, but I don't think it's a stretch to say that a good bullpen would have gotten the Sox to .500 this year and I think that's the high end of that. Anything more than that - 83 wins or 85 wins - IS a stretch.

And Abreu, Eaton and Ramirez are pretty good themselves, with Sale and Q. I think Cleveland's bullpen helps the White Sox starters this season. There were many games lost from the 7th inning on. 8 wins takes you to .500. I really don't think 10 or 12 is a stretch with a really good bullpen, and that is still with all of the other problems. And if you are that good, you aren't playing the Andy Wilkins of the world at the end of the season and maybe getting a couple more victories.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Dick Allen

[ron883]

This post has been edited by the Soxtalk staff to remove objectionable material. Soxtalk encourages a free discussion between its members, but does not allow personal attacks, threats, graphic sexual material, nudity, or any other materials judged offensive by the Administrators and Moderators. Thank you.

 

 

 

[pettie4sox]

Ah come on, I wanted to see what ron had to say.