Greg Walker

[greg775]

I ask the question again ... in response to Dick Allen's great post, tell me why we love Steverson so much and hate Walker?

[southsideirish71]

I ask the question again ... in response to Dick Allen's great post, tell me why we love Steverson so much and hate Walker?

 

 

You + this thread =

 

Edited October 1, 2014 by southsideirish71

[witesoxfan]

I ask the question again ... in response to Dick Allen's great post, tell me why we love Steverson so much and hate Walker?

 

Nobody has said they love Steverson, but there was a noticeable change in approach amongst the hitters in the lineup this year. Swing at hittable pitches, do not swing at unhittable pitches. It's much easier said than done, but there were a few guys who looked better at the plate compared to last year.

[southsider2k5]

I ask the question again ... in response to Dick Allen's great post, tell me why we love Steverson so much and hate Walker?

 

I give this post a D.

[southsider2k5]

You + this thread =

 

 

But this post gets an A+

[Dick Allen]

Nobody has said they love Steverson, but there was a noticeable change in approach amongst the hitters in the lineup this year. Swing at hittable pitches, do not swing at unhittable pitches. It's much easier said than done, but there were a few guys who looked better at the plate compared to last year.

Ultimately results matter. Take Abreu off this team and Eaton, Steverson is universally and unfairly just the next idiot to hold that job. I really doubt there is anyone out there that can change many careers. You may help one guy like Walker helped Paulie when he took over midway through 2003, but Paulie was pretty good before he bottomed out in 2003. The vast majority of guys don't make big strides because of the hitting coach or wouldn't there be some sort of hitting coach saber stat? Unless they talk about it, we never really have any idea who really pays attention to these guys. IMO, they get hired for their philosophy and fired if that philosophy isn't what they preach or they don't work hard or, and I think this is what happens most often, fired just because they make cheap sacrificial lambs. Teams constantly swapping out hitting coaches don't usually see the team OBP rise or OPS rise unless they swap out a few players. One exception was when Cleveland fired Eddie Murray, but that team hated him.

 

A friend of mine emailed me an article last year written by a club coach for youth Soccer. I wish I still had it, but basically he said there are so many parents who spend 10s of thousands of dollars to get their kid a great coach with some club, and are ultimately dissappointed because the kid winds up average, and isn't scholarship worthy. He said basically no matter how much money you spend, if your kid has average ability no matter who is showing him what, chances are he or she will wind up average. If there is somebody that makes average or even pretty good hitters great consistently, they would probably be paid more than most players.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Dick Allen

[witesoxfan]

Ultimately results matter. Take Abreu off this team and Eaton, Steverson is universally and unfairly just the next idiot to hold that job. I really doubt there is anyone out there that can change many careers. You may help one guy like Walker helped Paulie when he took over midway through 2003, but Paulie was pretty good before he bottomed out in 2003. The vast majority of guys don't make big strides because of the hitting coach or wouldn't there be some sort of hitting coach saber stat? Unless they talk about it, we never really have any idea who really pays attention to these guys. IMO, they get hired for their philosophy and fired if that philosophy isn't what they preach or they don't work hard or, and I think this is what happens most often, fired just because they make cheap sacrificial lambs. Teams constantly swapping out hitting coaches don't usually see the team OBP rise or OPS rise unless they swap out a few players. One exception was when Cleveland fired Eddie Murray, but that team hated him.

 

A friend of mine emailed me an article last year written by a club coach for youth Soccer. I wish I still had it, but basically he said there are so many parents who spend 10s of thousands of dollars to get their kid a great coach with some club, and are ultimately dissappointed because the kid winds up average, and isn't scholarship worthy. He said basically no matter how much money you spend, if your kid has average ability no matter who is showing him what, chances are he or she will wind up average. If there is somebody that makes average or even pretty good hitters great consistently, they would probably be paid more than most players.

 

I don't disagree. Steverson is still kind of the flavor of the month, I was just kind of showing that there were some guys who made strides under Steverson, including Tyler Flowers. He is a guy with a long, loopy, slow swing who currently owns the highest career strike out rate in MLB history, but, for at least this year, he helped mold him into a productive hitter.

 

Hitting coaches do matter, which is why teams still employ them, but I think a lot of their game is in maintainence rather than actually improving and that gets lost on people. You can't hire the best hitting coach in the world and expect a s***ty team to suddenly hit the cover off the ball, but if you have an average offense, you would hope that the hitting coach would help those guys remain average.

[greg775]

I don't disagree. Steverson is still kind of the flavor of the month, I was just kind of showing that there were some guys who made strides under Steverson, including Tyler Flowers. He is a guy with a long, loopy, slow swing who currently owns the highest career strike out rate in MLB history, but, for at least this year, he helped mold him into a productive hitter.

 

Hitting coaches do matter, which is why teams still employ them, but I think a lot of their game is in maintainence rather than actually improving and that gets lost on people. You can't hire the best hitting coach in the world and expect a s***ty team to suddenly hit the cover off the ball, but if you have an average offense, you would hope that the hitting coach would help those guys remain average.

 

I endorse and agree with this post.

[oldsox]

This thread is going as expected.

What? Another warning?

[lord chas]

You and Merkin are about the only people who seem to think Walker was unfairly criticized.

Dan Hayes also came to his defense out of left field on twitter when I commented that the White Sox do not miss Walker

[Texsox]

Coaches get too much credit and too much blame. Unless they go bat s*** crazy and become a PR nightmare, then they deserve all they receive.

 

But give me great players and a bad coach over mediocre players and a great coach.

[southsider2k5]

Dan Hayes also came to his defense out of left field on twitter when I commented that the White Sox do not miss Walker

 

Has anyone ever seen DA and Dan Hayes at the same time?

[bmags]

Can somebody tell me why a hitting coach for a major league baseball team should be entitled to their position free of criticism? It may indeed be an impossible task. They may very well be victim to circumstances outside of their control. They may be scapegoats for organizational failures, but in the end they will still need to show results in spite of all of that and if not, there are thousands willing to take over and try a better approach.

 

There are many people a lot worse off than MLB hitting coaches.

 

 

[BlackSox13]

I must say that this thread has been a fun read so far.

 

The ghost of Greg Walker still lingers about...

[StrangeSox]

guys can we talk about Brian Anderson?

[southsider2k5]

guys can we talk about Brian Anderson?

 

Can he play LF next year?

[LittleHurt05]

guys can we talk about Brian Anderson?

 

Sox need all the bullpen help they can get

[witesoxfan]

Can somebody tell me why a hitting coach for a major league baseball team should be entitled to their position free of criticism? It may indeed be an impossible task. They may very well be victim to circumstances outside of their control. They may be scapegoats for organizational failures, but in the end they will still need to show results in spite of all of that and if not, there are thousands willing to take over and try a better approach.

 

There are many people a lot worse off than MLB hitting coaches.

 

I don't mean to speak for Dick Allen here, but I think his big thing is this: if Greg Walker or Jeff Manto get blamed or fired because the offense underperforms, regardless of the talent on hand, why is Don Cooper continually given a free pass and not criticized when the pitching staff in recent years has been mediocre to dreadful, regardless of talent on hand?

 

So many times, it matters not who coaches but insteaad who your players are.

[witesoxfan]

Sox need all the bullpen help they can get

 

It would be awesome if he had actually turned into a good pitcher. Then you can run him out as a reliever and as a defensive replacement in the outfield.

[cabiness42]

Sox need all the bullpen help they can get

 

Talk Dunn out of retiring.

[caulfield12]

I don't mean to speak for Dick Allen here, but I think his big thing is this: if Greg Walker or Jeff Manto get blamed or fired because the offense underperforms, regardless of the talent on hand, why is Don Cooper continually given a free pass and not criticized when the pitching staff in recent years has been mediocre to dreadful, regardless of talent on hand?

 

So many times, it matters not who coaches but insteaad who your players are.

 

Maybe because 50% of that is john danks related, which he has how much control over exactly?

Everyone will admit noesi overachieved....so what pitching coach in the majors could have gotten more out of Paulino Carroll rienzo surkamp leesman bassitt etc.???

 

 

[Buehrle>Wood]

I don't mean to speak for Dick Allen here, but I think his big thing is this: if Greg Walker or Jeff Manto get blamed or fired because the offense underperforms, regardless of the talent on hand, why is Don Cooper continually given a free pass and not criticized when the pitching staff in recent years has been mediocre to dreadful, regardless of talent on hand?

 

So many times, it matters not who coaches but insteaad who your players are.

Um that's the whole point. Greg Walker has failed absolutely miserably with his biggest projects throughout his career here. He's never had a guy outperform expectations like ever. Meanwhile we spend next to nothing on the pitching staff and Cooper succeeds often with waiver wire scrubs and such and has our Gordon Beckham of pitching actually performing like the all world talent he's supposed to be.

[witesoxfan]

Um that's the whole point. Greg Walker has failed absolutely miserably with his biggest projects throughout his career here. He's never had a guy outperform expectations like ever. Meanwhile we spend next to nothing on the pitching staff and Cooper succeeds often with waiver wire scrubs and such and has our Gordon Beckham of pitching actually performing like the all world talent he's supposed to be.

 

Paul Konerko, Jim Thome, Jermaine Dye, Joe Crede, Alex Rios...there are a ton of players that would say that Walker helped them turn their careers around, Joe Crede especially. Prior to 2006, he was a .250 hitter who hit 20 home runs and would always pop out to 2B from pulling off the ball. He worked his ass off that offseason with Walker in staying on the ball better and he had an absolutely phenomenal year until the back injury that ruined his career creeped in.

[LittleHurt05]

Paul Konerko, Jim Thome, Jermaine Dye, Joe Crede, Alex Rios...there are a ton of players that would say that Walker helped them turn their careers around, Joe Crede especially. Prior to 2006, he was a .250 hitter who hit 20 home runs and would always pop out to 2B from pulling off the ball. He worked his ass off that offseason with Walker in staying on the ball better and he had an absolutely phenomenal year until the back injury that ruined his career creeped in.

 

What? 2004 Thome was great. 2005 he only played 59 games due to elbow injuries and sucked. 2006 Thome was great. Unless Walker is a doctor, I don't see how he turned Thome's career around?

[witesoxfan]

What? 2004 Thome was great. 2005 he only played 59 games due to elbow injuries and sucked. 2006 Thome was great. Unless Walker is a doctor, I don't see how he turned Thome's career around?

 

Maybe not Thome