Greg Walker

[Balta1701]

2014 - 4.30 team ERA, 13th out of 15

2013 - 3.98 team ERA, 9th out of 15

2012 - 4.08 team ERA, 8th out of 14

2011 - 4.10 team ERA, 8th out of 14

2010 - 4.09 team ERA, 8th out of 14

2009 - 4.14 team ERA, 2nd out of 14

2008 - 4.06 team ERA, 6th out of 14

2007 - 4.77 team ERA, 12th out of 14

2006 - 4.61 team ERA, 10th out of 14

2005 - 3.61 team ERA, 1st out of 14

2004 - 4.91 team ERA, 11th out of 14

2003 - 4.17 team ERA, 4th out of 14

 

I didn't note 2002 as Nardi was the coach for half a year there and Cooper was cleaning up a mess.

 

On that list, I see 2 teams that had great pitching, 2 teams that had above average pitching, 4 teams that were pretty mediocre, and 2 teams that were bad, and 2 teams that were very bad. That's a fairly stable bell curve Cooper has working right now.

But that's happening in a hitters ballpark. An "Average" White Sox pitching staff throwing in this ballpark would be 8th/10th in ERA in the AL. Put the same pitching staff in Comerica and they're 5th in ERA.

[Dick Allen]

But that's happening in a hitters ballpark. An "Average" White Sox pitching staff throwing in this ballpark would be 8th/10th in ERA in the AL. Put the same pitching staff in Comerica and they're 5th in ERA.

It has played as a neutral park the past 3 or 4 years yet no top half of the AL finishes. Next excuse.

Also check their splits. Many pitch much better at home.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

It has played as a neutral park the past 3 or 4 years yet no top half of the AL finishes. Next excuse.

Also check their splits. Many pitch much better at home.

2010: 4th best hitters park

2011: 14th

2012: 2nd best

2013: 14th

2014: 7th

Always above average, overall not Coors but one of the better hitters parks in the league.

 

someone else's version just for good measure:

Park Factor

+125

113 R

137 HR

This means that in the years 2010-2013, U.S. Cellular Field produced 113 runs for every 100 runs produced in the average MLB park, and 137 HRs for every 100 homers, for a mean Park Factor of 125.

 

This is an extreme hitter's park.

 

Fangraphs has us as an above average hitters park corrected downwards for WAR in 2013, 2012, 2011, and 2010.

 

 

Had enough or going to make something up again?

[Dick Allen]

2010: 4th best hitters park

2011: 14th

2012: 2nd best

2013: 14th

2014: 7th

Always above average, overall not Coors but one of the better hitters parks in the league.

 

someone else's version just for good measure:

 

 

Fangraphs has us as an above average hitters park corrected downwards for WAR in 2013, 2012, 2011, and 2010.

 

 

Had enough or going to make something up again?

Not making anything up. BP has it at 100 the last 3 years. Exactly average.

[Buehrle>Wood]

There are actually a lot of guys I have issues with on that list. How many of those guys were one year wonders? How many were successful before getting with Cooper? Why can't Cooper fix guys and keep them fixed? How many of those guys were going to be good no matter who was pitching coach? How many of them are just not very good to begin with? It's pretty subjective in that manner.

 

Like I said, I'm not trying to say Cooper is a bad pitching coach. I like him and like what he does, but so much of the coaching game is having good players.

It's amazing we got one year out of a lot of those guys. That's the whole point.

[Balta1701]

Not making anything up. BP has it at 100 the last 3 years. Exactly average.

2012: well above average for both righties and lefties, 12 more runs than average ballpark.

2013: above average for righties (105), slightly below average for lefties (97), translating to an above average hitters ballpark.

2014: 104 for righties, 98 for lefties, same story, comes out to an above average hitters ballpark overall (and wondering if Chris Sale isn't impacting the lefties).

 

Did you seriously think that because you posted twice without including a link that I couldn't check?

 

(2011, similar story, 107 for righties, 99 for lefties, above average hitters park each of the last 4 years. 4 years in a row you are completely wrong even for the website you're supposedly citing).

[Dick Allen]

2012: well above average for both righties and lefties, 12 more runs than average ballpark.

2013: above average for righties (105), slightly below average for lefties (97), translating to an above average hitters ballpark.

2014: 104 for righties, 98 for lefties, same story, comes out to an above average hitters ballpark overall (and wondering if Chris Sale isn't impacting the lefties).

 

Did you seriously think that because you posted twice without including a link that I couldn't check?

 

(2011, similar story, 107 for righties, 99 for lefties, above average hitters park each of the last 4 years).

I get the BP book every year 100 avg.

 

3 year avg

Runs 99

HR rh91

HR lh102

Runs lh105

Runs rh 99

 

Go look at the book. And I will accept your apology.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

Well, that's 4 linked websites all of which say the same thing, a slightly above average hitters park that sometimes plays extremely above average, versus your word.

 

Everyone else can take their pick about what to believe.

 

Hell, even if you posted the document I'm going to go with what every other place, including BP, says.

[Dick Allen]

Well, that's 4 linked websites all of which say the same thing, a slightly above average hitters park that sometimes plays extremely above average, versus your word.

 

Everyone else can take their pick about what to believe.

 

Hell, even if you posted the document I'm going to go with what every other place, including BP, says.

My word is solid. Anyone with a 2014 BP can verify my post. The only one making things up is you saying they would be 5th if they played at Comerica Park.

[Balta1701]

My word is solid. Anyone with a 2014 BP can verify my post. The only one making things up is you saying they would be 5th if they played at Comerica Park.

"Making things up" = "4 separate links including one to the source you say you're citing establishing that over the exact time period you asked for".

 

You are truly at a new low. I'm out. This is just sad.

[Dick Allen]

"Making things up" = "4 separate links including one to the source you say you're citing establishing that over the exact time period you asked for".

 

You are truly at a new low. I'm out. This is just sad.

 

Look at page 73 in the 2014 BP then pop off.

 

A low is accusing someone of lying without even checking.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

Look at page 73 in the 2014 BP then pop off.

 

A low is accusing someone of lying without even checking.

There are 3 possibilities.

 

1. You're flat out lying.

2. You're not paying attention as you are reading the book and you are quoting a number incorrectly. For example you could be looking at only the splits for LH hitters - in the linked BP numbers that anyone can read, those were about average all 3 years.

3. You're actually reading it correctly, but you're so incurious that you're just quoting the numbers as gospel and not bothering to think through where those numbers come from or what difficulties might be in them. You're then tossing aside the same calculation done and presented by 4 different places (well, 3 different places and the same exact place) because they fit your agenda without giving any reason why the version you prefer is better other than it shows what you want it to show.

 

When I replied, I originally included 3 different calculations all from different sources for exactly that reason, because I expect some scatter depending on how you treat the fact that "players often play better at home anyway". But processing that would undermine your agenda and require you to actually stop and think before coming up with it.

 

Whatever the actual case is, the end result is just a sad spectacle.

[witesoxfan]

The book on USCF is basically that it's a below average park to hit in for average, a slightly above average park for homers for LHH, and a very friendly park for homers for RHH.

 

 

[Buehrle>Wood]

Tom Gordon was one of my favorite pitchers. He's the nicest guy in the world. I was sure to disclose that I was curious about him specifically, no need to get salty.

My bad, my post was not directed at you.

[Balta1701]

The book on USCF is basically that it's a below average park to hit in for average, a slightly above average park for homers for LHH, and a very friendly park for homers for RHH.

Which is exactly what everything other than the hidden book shows.

[witesoxfan]

It's amazing we got one year out of a lot of those guys. That's the whole point.

 

How is that helpful, long-term? You want sustainability. Getting guys to put up career years one year at a time does nothing for that.

[shysocks]

2014 - 4.30 team ERA, 13th out of 15

2013 - 3.98 team ERA, 9th out of 15

2012 - 4.08 team ERA, 8th out of 14

2011 - 4.10 team ERA, 8th out of 14

2010 - 4.09 team ERA, 8th out of 14

2009 - 4.14 team ERA, 2nd out of 14

2008 - 4.06 team ERA, 6th out of 14

2007 - 4.77 team ERA, 12th out of 14

2006 - 4.61 team ERA, 10th out of 14

2005 - 3.61 team ERA, 1st out of 14

2004 - 4.91 team ERA, 11th out of 14

2003 - 4.17 team ERA, 4th out of 14

 

I didn't note 2002 as Nardi was the coach for half a year there and Cooper was cleaning up a mess.

 

On that list, I see 2 teams that had great pitching, 2 teams that had above average pitching, 4 teams that were pretty mediocre, and 2 teams that were bad, and 2 teams that were very bad. That's a fairly stable bell curve Cooper has working right now.

You know very well that ERA isn't the right stat for this, as Balta hashed out, but I'll use it anyway.

 

Aggregate, since 2003

ERA: 4.24 (5th in AL)

FIP: 4.20 (t-5)

xFIP: 4.17 (2)

SIERA: 4.10 (4)

WAR: 240.0 (2)

RA9WAR: 230.1 (2)

K-BB%: 10.1% (4)

 

For the offense

R: 8895 (8)

AVG: .260 (11)

OBP: .325 (12)

SLG: .423 (6)

OPS: .748 (8)

wOBA: .326 (8)

wRC+: 96 (12)

WAR: 170.3 (12)

 

I don't think I'm cherry picking stats that help my case, and I think this speaks for itself. Reiterating: Players ultimately decide the games, and for 12 years our pitching has decided to be very good. Cooper gets some credit for that.

[kitekrazy]

Being a hitting coach is one of those jobs asking to get fired. I think they are more important in the minor league system. I bet the Sox don't have any good ones there.

[oldsox]

Being a hitting coach is one of those jobs asking to get fired. I think they are more important in the minor league system. I bet the Sox don't have any good ones there.

If you don't know their names, how can you criticize them?