gosox41 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I've seen talk in other threads about going after him since he is a free agent. Here a free the reasons I'd pass: 1. He is almost 33. Best years are behind him. 2. He will command probably $16-18 mill per year over 4 years. This ties in to point 1. 3. 'Big Games' James as he is called has almost a 5.00 ERA the playoffs not including this year. Is this an example of small sample size, wearing down over the course of a season or bring the American version of Javier Vazquez? And to think I am a aging this even though he is cousins with the greatest center fielder in White Sox history. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 QUOTE (gosox41 @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 03:08 AM) I've seen talk in other threads about going after him since he is a free agent. Here a free the reasons I'd pass: 1. He is almost 33. Best years are behind him. 2. He will command probably $16-18 mill per year over 4 years. This ties in to point 1. 3. 'Big Games' James as he is called has almost a 5.00 ERA the playoffs not including this year. Is this an example of small sample size, wearing down over the course of a season or bring the American version of Javier Vazquez? And to think I am a aging this even though he is cousins with the greatest center fielder in White Sox history. Bob wasn't there a time when pitchers were still considered valuable in the 30's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I wouldn't give him 4 years at his age. I'd rather have Bassitt hold a spot until Rodon is ready. Sox need to think bullpen a lot more than starting pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 QUOTE (flavum @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 03:23 AM) I wouldn't give him 4 years at his age. I'd rather have Bassitt hold a spot until Rodon is ready. Sox need to think bullpen a lot more than starting pitching. I was never a fan of shields. so in all honesty I really can't gage on not wanting him on the sox. is it age? salary? yrs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Comparing Javy and Shields is JUST a bit of a stretch...bordering on ridiculous. He's simply been an excellent pitcher for the Rays in August and September from 2008-2013...with the exception of 2009-10 when he was hurting/ouchy/high accumulated pitch counts from post-season play. 2014 after All-Star Game 5-3, 2.62 ERA 2011-2013 after All-Star Game....24-13, 3.11 ERA 2008 7-2 with a 3.21 ERA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 QUOTE (LDF @ Sep 30, 2014 -> 10:26 PM) I was never a fan of shields. so in all honesty I really can't gage on not wanting him on the sox. is it age? salary? yrs? To me, he's a right handed Buehrle. Lots of innings, which is great. He makes his starts. But going into his age 33 season, who knows how long that can last. I don't see a fit with the Sox if he's looking to break the bank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Shields will be 33 by the time the season starts with likely a new 3-5 year contract. Thanks but no thanks. Put Bassitt in the rotation in place of Carroll. Hopefully trade Danks early in 2015 and call Rodon up from Charlotte. Spend the money on the bullpen and hitters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 QUOTE (LDF @ Sep 30, 2014 -> 09:26 PM) I was never a fan of shields. so in all honesty I really can't gage on not wanting him on the sox. is it age? salary? yrs? Both those, along with the fact he hasn't had TJ surgery yet and that the White Sox would blow their budget on just one or two players, rather than being able to allocate that $25-35 million over the bullpen and 1-2 additional bats. If they're not competitive in 2015, then you're wasting his likely best remaining career season and then he's definitely on the downside in his mid 30's...and on the way to becoming an albatross contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I'd rather give Bassitt a look and wait for Montas and Danish than spend $100+ on James Shields through his age 38 season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Sep 30, 2014 -> 10:38 PM) I'd rather give Bassitt a look and wait for Montas and Danish than spend $100+ on James Shields through his age 38 season. I would consider $70-75 million and 3 years, but nothing more than that in terms of years and total money....which would quickly be eliminated by his agent as a realistic destination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Sep 30, 2014 -> 11:38 PM) I'd rather give Bassitt a look and wait for Montas and Danish than spend $100+ on James Shields through his age 38 season. Agreed. I'm hoping the Sox go with Sale, Q, Noesi, Danks, Bassitt to start the season. Hopefully Danks pitches well enough to be traded sometime around June and then move Rodon up from Charlotte into Danks place. Hopefully one of Montas and Danish continue their paces and one of them be ready to challenge Noesi in ST 2016. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Sep 30, 2014 -> 10:53 PM) Agreed. I'm hoping the Sox go with Sale, Q, Noesi, Danks, Bassitt to start the season. Hopefully Danks pitches well enough to be traded sometime around June and then move Rodon up from Charlotte into Danks place. Hopefully one of Montas and Danish continue their paces and one of them be ready to challenge Noesi in ST 2016. They better get going soon. The Twins are coming. The Royals will have Ventura, Duffy, Finnegan, Vargas and Guthrie as a very solid and youthful rotation, and could get even better with some momentum going their way with a chance to knock off the Angels and even add some free agents (not retaining Shields or Butler's salaries). The Indians have Bauer, Salazar, Kluber and Carrasco. Edited October 1, 2014 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 12:02 AM) They better get going soon. The Twins are coming. The Royals will have Ventura, Duffy, Finnegan, Vargas and Guthrie as a very solid and youthful rotation, and could get even better with some momentum going their way with a chance to knock off the Angels and even add some free agents (not retaining Shields or Butler's salaries). The Indians have Bauer, Salazar, Kluber and Carrasco. You're right about that. The Sox need to get something figured out, soon. I really would like to see them be a competitive team next year but with so many holes its hard to be optimistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 One thing is certain. Shields will not be effective for the next 4 years which is the minimum of what he'll sign for. I bet Boston or New York or somebody gives him 5-6 years at 15-20 million a year. No need to sweat Shields. He won't be a White Sox in this market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEANS Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 02:56 AM) One thing is certain. Shields will not be effective for the next 4 years which is the minimum of what he'll sign for. and why is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Story in Boston paper yesterday estimates Scherzer and Lester will get 6 years at $25+Mil per year and Shields will get 4 years in $90 mil range. Cole Hamels will also be available at 4 and $90 but he will require compensation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 QUOTE (SCCWS @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 08:38 AM) Story in Boston paper yesterday estimates Scherzer and Lester will get 6 years at $25+Mil per year and Shields will get 4 years in $90 mil range. Cole Hamels will also be available at 4 and $90 but he will require compensation. I'd expect Scherzer and Lester to get longer than that. Scherzer already turned down 6/$144. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 07:57 AM) I'd expect Scherzer and Lester to get longer than that. Scherzer already turned down 6/$144. I think you would have to be a fool to go more than 6 years on a 30 year old pitcher. That being said it wouldn't surprise me at all if somebody did. I would have to think at some point GMs are going to get smarter and see how bad the contracts given out to players like Sabathia, Pujols, Hamilton, Fielder, A-Rod, Crawford, Howard, etcetera are hamstringing their teams and will look to avoid them. If someone gave Scherzer 7 or 8 years at $25 million there is a good chance they are going to regret at least $50 million of that contract. Edited October 1, 2014 by lasttriptotulsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian310 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 (edited) I'd go for Scherzer on 6 years. Sale Scherzer Quintana would be a dirty 1-3. You'd have him for his age 30-35 age seasons which isn't really bad. Edited October 1, 2014 by chisoxfan310 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 09:17 AM) I think you would have to be a fool to go more than 6 years on a 30 year old pitcher. That being said it wouldn't surprise me at all if somebody did. I would have to think at some point GMs are going to get smarter and see how bad the contracts given out to players like Sabathia, Pujols, Hamilton, Fielder, A-Rod, Crawford, Howard, etcetera are hamstringing their teams and will look to avoid them. If someone give Scherzer 7 or 8 years at $25 million there is a good chance they are going to regret at least $50 million of that contract. But stop and think the other way. The Yankees won a world series by giving Sabathia and ARoid big money. I still don't see them giving back that 2009 world series trophy. Pujols and hamilton have had down seasons but the Angels had the best record in MLB this year. Both Fielder and Crawford have proven to be moveable contracts. Out of that list, the only one that is really a complete disaster for the team that signed it is Howard's extension. Somebody, maybe the Cubs or Yankees, is going to ante up a fortune for each of those 2. When is the last time the top starting pitcher on the market signed for less than you thought he would? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 08:17 AM) I think you would have to be a fool to go more than 6 years on a 30 year old pitcher. That being said it wouldn't surprise me at all if somebody did. I would have to think at some point GMs are going to get smarter and see how bad the contracts given out to players like Sabathia, Pujols, Hamilton, Fielder, A-Rod, Crawford, Howard, etcetera are hamstringing their teams and will look to avoid them. If someone gave Scherzer 7 or 8 years at $25 million there is a good chance they are going to regret at least $50 million of that contract. Doubtful. Most GMs have to win NOW. What's the best way to win now? Sign the best players available. Who cares what happens 6 years down the line, if the team doesn't win before that, he'll be looking for a new job anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 09:20 AM) But stop and think the other way. The Yankees won a world series by giving Sabathia and ARoid big money. I still don't see them giving back that 2009 world series trophy. Pujols and hamilton have had down seasons but the Angels had the best record in MLB this year. Both Fielder and Crawford have proven to be moveable contracts. Out of that list, the only one that is really a complete disaster for the team that signed it is Howard's extension. Somebody, maybe the Cubs or Yankees, is going to ante up a fortune for each of those 2. When is the last time the top starting pitcher on the market signed for less than you thought he would? I think Lester to Boston for 6 yrs and closer to 30 mil. Boston is supposedly his 1st choice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 QUOTE (SCCWS @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 12:29 PM) I think Lester to Boston for 6 yrs and closer to 30 mil. Boston is supposedly his 1st choice If they were really willing to pay that, they could have had him at a fraction of that price a long time ago. Instead they insulted him with a lowball offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 QUOTE (flavum @ Sep 30, 2014 -> 10:23 PM) I wouldn't give him 4 years at his age. I'd rather have Bassitt hold a spot until Rodon is ready. Sox need to think bullpen a lot more than starting pitching. Sox don't need to throw a bunch of money at bullpen pitchers either. That kills you Guys like Bassitt - let them do some bullpen duty for a year. We need a good right handed starter. What I don't like about Shields is that he works way too slow and he will be overpaid for the #2 that he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 12:47 PM) Sox don't need to throw a bunch of money at bullpen pitchers either. That kills you Guys like Bassitt - let them do some bullpen duty for a year. We need a good right handed starter. What I don't like about Shields is that he works way too slow and he will be overpaid for the #2 that he is. Buying bullpen help at full price really seems to have the worst rate of return of any free agent contract in baseball. Relievers in general have such a wide standard deviation from season to season, but it seems worse for guys at the top of the free agent market. Just scanning the names and contracts over recent years there are SO many bad ones. I would almost rather see the team put smaller bids in on rebound guys, versus full price guys coming off of big years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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