Chicago White Sox Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 01:53 PM) I think anybody saying that Adam Dunn was a horrible hitter for the White Sox is completely mistaken, but he definitely didn't live up to lofty expectations. He was a horrible hitter one year and about exactly what you could expect out of him the other 3. I wish him well, hopefully he keeps winning Oscars. Adam Dunn was a 135 wRC+ hitter when we got him and he was about a 110 wRC+ hitter for us his last three years. Even completely ignoring 2011, I was expecting a lot more out of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 07:00 PM) Look into the detailed components that go into those calculations, in no way shape or form do I see anything being applied that would negate for the speed factor of a player and thus adjustments that should be made to the run coefficient based upon speed tools nor is there an adjustment / factor for strikeout to out at least not that is defined. And the first variable would be extremely difficult to actually figure out as you can't just use pure speed times as there are many aspects that go into baserunning from jumps to secondary leads to just being a good runner. This is all of that base running data http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/...g-batting.shtml I'm pretty sure this base running data goes into their WAR calculation. Nice improvements by De Aza this year over his bad 2013. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 07:19 PM) You replied before I completed some edits. The formula they use does not really do the adjustment you talk about, the way the formula is calculated it is highly dependent on the production of the players behind them and how often they actually score, which can be inherently flawed because someone with great speed and a good baserunner could have had poor hitters behind him and thus never scored many runs where another guy could have had a plus player behind him and even though he was slow as molasses he scored at a higher percentage because the guys behind him were very productive. That is an extremely limited view they are applying. No. They use the percentage of times (for example) a player takes an extra base as compared to the league average. Not merely the raw numbers. Edited October 2, 2014 by Vance Law Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 01:48 PM) I wish Adam well as well. He doesn't need my well wishes after all that money he's made. It's funny how in sports some guys who steal money from teams, so to speak, are OK with the fans, yet fans want to run other guys (like backup quarterbacks in football) out of town. Matt Cassel was booed at the all star celebrity softball game in KC for gawd sakes a couple years ago and he's the nicest guy around. The truth is Adam Dunn was a great guy who was a horrible White Sox hitter. Aren't you supposed to be a good guy in life? Why do we praise him for that and fans despise other guys who are nice guys? I'm sure Pierre was a nice guy. Dwyane Wise was a nice guy probably. Some other stiffs of the past. And they got ROASTED. Good for Big Adam. It's not my money and he's done well setting his people up for life. It's amazing to me how many people equate the money a player makes with happiness, production and a host of other things. It's not his fault the Sox offered him the money. He took the offer and I have no doubt he tried to the best of his ability. He sucked there is no doubt. But why begrudge him the money. People are supposed to be good guys but unfortunately many are not inside and outside of the world of sports. Tom Cruise has made hundreds of millions and he has gone through 3 good looking wives. He is an adrenaline junkie flies a P 51 and seems to be a good guy in person. However, short of Risky Business he has mostly sucked as an actor in movies. Does anyone begrudge him the money? I just can't figure out why money becomes the factor that is supposed to make it ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 What's the quote in this case? Lies, damn lies, and statistics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 QUOTE (Tex @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 08:58 PM) What's the quote in this case? Lies, damn lies, and statistics. Sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Adam wasn't what we needed him to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 07:32 PM) Adam Dunn was a 135 wRC+ hitter when we got him and he was about a 110 wRC+ hitter for us his last three years. Even completely ignoring 2011, I was expecting a lot more out of him. I've never disagreed or disputed this, and even taking his first year out, which is arguably the worst season in baseball history, he was a disappointment in his last 3. All I was getting at was that you can't say he was an unproductive hitter. Overall, he was not a good player - he was slow which hindered his ability to run the bases well and he was terrible wherever you put him on defense. And he was not good against left handed pitching either. But, when you could DH him against RHP, he was a productive bat in the lineup. That's all I've been saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 QUOTE (Heads22 @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 07:43 PM) Adam wasn't what we needed him to be. That seems to be the case when the Sox invest in veteran NL talent. I hope they stop that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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