Chisoxfn Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 QUOTE (chw42 @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 08:55 AM) .271/.323/.379 is not horrid out of your DH? If it wasn't for a semi-decent second half, he would have had a sub-.700 OPS. I'd rather have Adam Dunn if that's the Billy Butler of the future. No thanks. Hitting still counts. Its something I will tell stat people a million times over. The ability to actually get hits, matters. Again, Butler had a poor year, but horrid is a stretch and I think when you look over his longer span, you'll see a guy that was very productive and is a flat out good hitter. Great, no, but good, yes, and you know what, I'm sick of how many BAD hitters we've had. Adam Dunn made me sick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 10:52 AM) Dude still hit for a good average and had a solid OBP. He was not horrid. Worse then previous years, sure, but horrid, absolutely not. Any DH/1B who had a 97 wRC+, .311 wOBA and a ISO of .107 had a horrid year. Had he been a slick fielder infielder with those numbers, then fine, but no way a DH/1B should be playing everyday with those numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 (edited) I was watching Butler, and I think I would stay away. He hit a few line drives last weekend, but the ball doesn't have much zip coming off his bat. Maybe I am being a little too simple, but while I think he can come back and hit for a decent average, I think his power is what it is, and that is pretty unacceptable for a guy you really don't want playing the field at all, and a guy who rolls into as many DPs as he does. Edited October 1, 2014 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 10:51 AM) How can you state that. It clearly appears A's were negatively impacted in clubhouse and Cespedes had more value then Beane believed. Was the negativity in the clubhouse what caused Brandon Moss's hip injury to get worse? Or Jaso & Gentry's concussions? Or Crisp's neck injury turning him into a shell of himself at the plate? Or Stephen Vogt suddenly remembering that he is Stephen Vogt? In their rotation, Jesse Chavez was so good in the first half, but didn't have the arm strength to keep starting in August and September. 4 of Kazmir's last 7 starts lasted less than 6 innings. Having Lester to lead the rotation and save the bullpen every 5 days was huge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pants Rowland Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 10:59 AM) No thanks. Hitting still counts. Its something I will tell stat people a million times over. The ability to actually get hits, matters. Again, Butler had a poor year, but horrid is a stretch and I think when you look over his longer span, you'll see a guy that was very productive and is a flat out good hitter. Great, no, but good, yes, and you know what, I'm sick of how many BAD hitters we've had. Adam Dunn made me sick. This^ And I totally agree with you about the possibility of Beane disrupting the clubhouse chemistry with all of his trades. The most talented team in baseball does not always win it all. Beane took a page out of the Kenny Williams playbook this year in trying to go for broke with a bunch of big trades and the A's had a different vibe from that point on in the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 11:02 AM) I was watching Butler, and I think I would stay away. He hit a few line drives last weekend, but the ball doesn't have much zip coming off his bat. Maybe I am being a little too simple, but while I think he can come back and hit for a decent average, I think his power is what it is, and that is pretty unacceptable for a guy you really don't want playing the field at all, and a guy who rolls into as many DPs as he does. Butler's issue is that his swing is too flat. Normally, that's a great thing, but Butler is so big and strong that if he just puts more lift on the ball, he'd average more than 17-20 homers a year like he has in his career. He also hits a ton of ground balls. When you're the third or cleanup hitter, you're slower than Konerko, and you hit a ton of ground balls, you're going to ground into a lot of double plays. If you give Butler 600 PAs, there's almost a guarantee he'll ground into 20 DPs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I enjoyed these Brandon McCarthy tweets last night about the Cespedes trade ruining Oakland. Brandon McCarthy @BMcCarthy32 · 14h 14 hours ago seriously still with the Cespedes narrative? "where can I find Brandon Moss?" - "oh, he's laying in Cespy's old locker in the fetal position again. Poor guy's taking it real hard." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 10:59 AM) No thanks. Hitting still counts. Its something I will tell stat people a million times over. The ability to actually get hits, matters. Again, Butler had a poor year, but horrid is a stretch and I think when you look over his longer span, you'll see a guy that was very productive and is a flat out good hitter. Great, no, but good, yes, and you know what, I'm sick of how many BAD hitters we've had. Adam Dunn made me sick. His lack of power the last two years really concerns me. I can stomach .270 with a .320 OBP, that's acceptable in this day and age. However, the .380 SLG is unacceptable coming from a designated hitter. He can hit for a mediocre average all he wants, but if he's going to put up an ISO barely above .100, that's not going to cut it. Edited October 1, 2014 by chw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 QUOTE (Pants Rowland @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 11:05 AM) This^ And I totally agree with you about the possibility of Beane disrupting the clubhouse chemistry with all of his trades. The most talented team in baseball does not always win it all. Beane took a page out of the Kenny Williams playbook this year in trying to go for broke with a bunch of big trades and the A's had a different vibe from that point on in the season. Numbers account for a lot, but they still haven't gotten to the point where they can quantify if something is human emotion or just random luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy the Clown Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Butler is trash. Christ, what the hell is wrong with some of you guys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 QUOTE (chw42 @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 09:13 AM) His lack of power the last two years really concerns me. I can stomach .270 with a .320 OBP, that's acceptable in this day and age. However, the .380 SLG is unacceptable coming from a designated hitter. He can hit for a mediocre average all he wants, but if he's going to put up an ISO barely above .100, that's not going to cut it. I also view him as, in the grand scheme of things, a low dollar value signing and a good clubhouse guy. Again though, if you had a team of empty .300 hitters who were fast vs. a team of Adam Dunns, I'll take the team with empty .300 averages every time. Now I know some of you will say blah blah blah we need more context but I will. Of course, counter point is Butler is not fast, agreed, but he can actually hit. Is he done, I don't know, but I don't have a problem giving him a 1 yr 5M deal with an option year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 11:26 AM) Butler is trash. Christ, what the hell is wrong with some of you guys? I know right!??@? HOW DARE ANYONE HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION THAN ANDY THE CLOWN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAfan Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 QUOTE (chw42 @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 11:38 AM) It was the exact opposite of the traditional Billy Beane philosophy. Honestly, I'm not sure what kind of GM Beane is at this point. Exactly!! Sorry for those who love Beane. Kenny Williams doesn't get nearly the same adoration but he has a World Series ring. Okay, the Sox have more money to spend. But still. Beane isn't the only smart GM in baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 QUOTE (VAfan @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 11:53 AM) Exactly!! Sorry for those who love Beane. Kenny Williams doesn't get nearly the same adoration but he has a World Series ring. Okay, the Sox have more money to spend. But still. Beane isn't the only smart GM in baseball. Please name me one person who has suggested this. Also, Kenny Williams is no longer a general manager but I have absolutely no qualms with Rick Hahn holding that position either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 11:26 AM) Butler is trash. Christ, what the hell is wrong with some of you guys? We should just trade for Mike Trout and Clayton Kershaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 No on Butler. I can't believe that Butler is 1 year younger than Alex Gordon. I feel like Butler has been around way longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I also view him as, in the grand scheme of things, a low dollar value signing and a good clubhouse guy. Again though, if you had a team of empty .300 hitters who were fast vs. a team of Adam Dunns, I'll take the team with empty .300 averages every time. Now I know some of you will say blah blah blah we need more context but I will. Of course, counter point is Butler is not fast, agreed, but he can actually hit. Is he done, I don't know, but I don't have a problem giving him a 1 yr 5M deal with an option year. Both of those teams would be terrible. Also, for those praising the Royals' offensive approach, they were 9th in the AL in runs scored, 5th in the AL Central. Offense didn't get the 2014 Royals into the playoffs any more than the 2005 White Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy the Clown Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I know right!??@? HOW DARE ANYONE HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION THAN ANDY THE CLOWN He's a DH (with no other skill besides hitting) who just slugged .380. Wanting him is demonstrably stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 01:21 PM) He's a DH (with no other skill besides hitting) who just slugged .380. Wanting him is demonstrably stupid. 2 years ago he slugged .510. His career Slug is .449. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy the Clown Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 We should just trade for Mike Trout and Clayton Kershaw. No. You're totally right, dude. We should sign guys to expensive contracts who are demonstrably bad baseball players and will keep us in the doldrums for the foreseeable future. Michael Taylor is probably a better player at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 12:21 PM) He's a DH (with no other skill besides hitting) who just slugged .380. Wanting him is demonstrably stupid. He's also going to be just 29 and has a career slugging percentage of .449. Wanting to buy low on him is not a bad idea. Going multiple years is probably not the best idea though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy the Clown Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 2 years ago he slugged .510. His career Slug is .449. He's 29 and fat with an old player's skill set. He's done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 12:23 PM) No. You're totally right, dude. We should sign guys to expensive contracts who are demonstrably bad baseball players and will keep us in the doldrums for the foreseeable future. Michael Taylor is probably a better player at this point. Who said that? Quit making crap up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy the Clown Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Who said that? Quit making crap up. Anything more than the veteran minimum for him is expensive/more than he's worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickofypres Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 08:41 AM) No. I like Billy Beane. He's really good at his job. I was hoping Oakland would win it all. Ditto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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