LittleHurt05 Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 4, 2014 -> 01:45 AM) Hmmm ... As I recall no other team in the postseason has come close to that kind of use of its starting pitchers a few years before and since 2005. I still think the Sabes people and all "modern" baseball tacticians would say that would NEVER work. Magic, destiny I tell ya. It's not ALL about numbers (cough, Billy Beane). Because no other rotation pitched as well as the Sox did in that ALCS. Combine that with how the offense stepped up in LA, I don't think the tying run was ever on deck in the final 3 innings in games 3-5, so there was no reason to use the bullpen. Two years earlier, Grady Little tried to do the same thing with the best pitcher in baseball and he lost the series and his job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Oct 4, 2014 -> 07:52 AM) Sabermetrics, traditional stats, etc. will ALL tell you that the 2005 White Sox were great. That pitching staff had a historic postseason. Honestly, the dominance of the '05 White Sox is/will be severely overlooked in history. Anyone think they might have been the most dominant of the past decade? They led their division the entire season, and they only lost one post season game. It is hard to out do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Most Sox fans don't even understand the dominance of that 05 team. That was something special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Oct 4, 2014 -> 11:53 AM) Most Sox fans don't even understand the dominance of that 05 team. That was something special. The bullpen was so good, I always underestimate how good the rotation was. Mark, Garland, and Contreras all had the best seasons of their entire careers. And it was a top 5 season for Freddy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 3, 2014 -> 11:25 PM) I disagree. None of those starters were near their pitch limit nor were they in dangerous situations with runners on. They either had big leads or low pitch counts, even Ned Yost would have kept them in What was each pitchers' pitch limit in that series? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 4, 2014 -> 09:02 AM) Because no other rotation pitched as well as the Sox did in that ALCS. Combine that with how the offense stepped up in LA, I don't think the tying run was ever on deck in the final 3 innings in games 3-5, so there was no reason to use the bullpen. Two years earlier, Grady Little tried to do the same thing with the best pitcher in baseball and he lost the series and his job. The Sox were losing in the 7th inning of game 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Oct 4, 2014 -> 01:25 PM) The Sox were losing in the 7th inning of game 5. That's right. Contreras also didn't allow a baserunner after the 5th inning and was only at 103 pitches after 8. In game 4, Garcia had a 4-run lead in the 5th and never had more than one runner on after that In the 6th inning of game 3, Garland gave up a 2-run homer to make it 5-2, then he retired the last 10 batters of the game. Some managers may have used their bullpen at some point, but it's not like leads were in jeopardy with lots of runners on base when Ozzie left them in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 4, 2014 -> 08:34 AM) Every manager will go his pen when it's finnegan Duffy Herrera Davis and holland. It's when the choice is Ventura vs. Collins/Fraser/Coleman/downs that it gets much trickier. I'm sure ausmus would have pitched anibal Sanchez an additional inning yesterday had he known the outcome in advance...Greg ur a big soria guy and he just doesn't have the crispness or movement after coming back from injury. It's not about sabes. It's about a managers intuition and decision-making ability. You are right about Soria. Looks like he's burned out the arm. He's no good anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 4, 2014 -> 02:16 PM) You are right about Soria. Looks like he's burned out the arm. He's no good anymore. I think his arm has lost its magic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Soria is yet another example of why you don't put major resources into veteran relief pitchers. You should peddle those guys at the deadline. You need to grow your own relievers. Beane has his team in the playoffs...yet again. He's dealing prospects recently- probably reading the market correctly that teams are over-valuing them. to do that, however, you need to be really good at creating your own prospects. Not sure Oak is great at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 4, 2014 -> 09:09 PM) I think his arm has lost its magic. Are you a Sabes guy? I'm telling you there are intangibles in sports like momentum and magic whether you guys believe it or not. The White Sox performance in 05 came out of nowhere in the playoffs/Series. Team has pretty much stunk since 05 and not been all that amazing before 05. Yes we make the playoffs every once in a while. I don't care what Sabes says about guys like Crede and Rowand and Pods. They are VITAL to teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 5, 2014 -> 01:12 AM) Are you a Sabes guy? I'm telling you there are intangibles in sports like momentum and magic whether you guys believe it or not. The White Sox performance in 05 came out of nowhere in the playoffs/Series. Team has pretty much stunk since 05 and not been all that amazing before 05. Yes we make the playoffs every once in a while. I don't care what Sabes says about guys like Crede and Rowand and Pods. They are VITAL to teams. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96kwILL35ig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 5, 2014 -> 12:12 AM) Are you a Sabes guy? I'm telling you there are intangibles in sports like momentum and magic whether you guys believe it or not. The White Sox performance in 05 came out of nowhere in the playoffs/Series. Team has pretty much stunk since 05 and not been all that amazing before 05. Yes we make the playoffs every once in a while. I don't care what Sabes says about guys like Crede and Rowand and Pods. They are VITAL to teams. Greg, seriously. Stop. Sabermetrics will also tell you that Crede, Rowand and Pods were great that year. Hell, Sabermetrics says that Rowand was the best player on the team that year. It was a well assembled team by Kenny Williams. It was a well managed team by Ozzie Guillen. It was a great team by both advanced and traditional metrics. Eye test as well. So stop trying to pick fights where there are no fights to pick and try to not use one of the most dominant teams ever as a selling point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysocks Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 4, 2014 -> 01:45 AM) I still think the Sabes people and all "modern" baseball tacticians would say that would NEVER work. This literally sounds like an example of a straw man argument they'd teach in a college debate class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 The 2005 White Sox had 7 players put up a WAR of over 3, they had 8 good starting players in the every day lineup, and only Timo Perez and Shingo Takatsu were players with any significant playing time who were poor players. It was an incredible team through any lens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 6, 2014 -> 09:33 AM) The 2005 White Sox had 7 players put up a WAR of over 3, they had 8 good starting players in the every day lineup, and only Timo Perez and Shingo Takatsu were players with any significant playing time who were poor players. It was an incredible team through any lens. YOU TAKE THAT BACK RIGHT NOW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 07:34 AM) I absolutely loathe the Kansas City Royals so I took no pleasure in seeing the one guy I wanted to find success and have an opportunity to do something get eliminated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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