KW "We're a lot closer than the record indicates"

[BlackSox13]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/scouting-yasmany-tomas/

Thank you very much. I just realized I posted my question in the wrong thread so I will continue the Toma's discussion in the appropriate thread.

[Baron]

I have the feeling a few posters would actually be very dissappointed if KW is correct and the Sox actually have a good team next season.

 

I was actually coming in here to post something similar to that. I think some posters in here would rather us pick number 1 than finish 1st in the division. I agree with Kenny...although I didnt think we would be going for it this year(I thought maybe 2016) I still think its a good option. This gives you a pretty good sense of what the offseason will be like too.

[Jerksticks]

Well said, but I think the bold is the sticking point. Some people would argue that trying to propel a 73-win team out of mediocrity isn't worth giving up the picks. I happen to disagree and think the Sox can be competitive with the right offseason, but it's a valid viewpoint.

Yea man. The purpose of most rebuilds is to draft Sales and Abreus. We have the most coveted assets in the game. Let's go win now please.

[hi8is]

I was actually coming in here to post something similar to that. I think some posters in here would rather us pick number 1 than finish 1st in the division. I agree with Kenny...although I didnt think we would be going for it this year(I thought maybe 2016) I still think its a good option. This gives you a pretty good sense of what the offseason will be like too.

Absolutely not. If the Sox can get into the post season those in the draft order choir wood be happy. The band gets singing when it's a chance to get a high draft pick and finish with an aweful record as opposed to getting a middle of the road pick with a mediocre record.

 

If we could pick 30th every year, that's the preference. If it's between picking 3rd or picking 16th... At that point I'm rooting for losses.

 

There's a difference between being rational and being a complete Debbie Downer imbecile!

[macsandz]

Along with about $10 million a year in cash, or another bad contract coming back are the only ways that it happens.

 

Something to consider as a general FYI, ...going forward, I believe the team will eat $ in the right deal more than they typically do.

Edited October 2, 2014 by bucket-of-suck

[macsandz]

Bruce Levine's thoughts: http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/10/02/lev...op-free-agents/

 

There is literally zero reason to follow Levine if you are looking for any kind of insight on any level.

[LDF]

Absolutely not. If the Sox can get into the post season those in the draft order choir wood be happy. The band gets singing when it's a chance to get a high draft pick and finish with an aweful record as opposed to getting a middle of the road pick with a mediocre record.

 

If we could pick 30th every year, that's the preference. If it's between picking 3rd or picking 16th... At that point I'm rooting for losses.

 

There's a difference between being rational and being a complete Debbie Downer imbecile!

 

nice post, and very true.

 

I guess I am one of those draft order choir boys who love the draft. however the sox was not

going to contend, even though they tried hard to make me out a liar, but the team is rebuilding.

with the process rebuilding, the system is lacking prospects. so yes, I want draft picks to be able

to supplant the system.

 

with the signing of Abreu, that change the whole time table. as I said way in the beginning of the

season, sox may compete next yr. look at the team, those holes can be filled with some smart

moves.

 

I would be extremely happy if the sox would not pick in the top 10 or even in the top 20, pick 30 is

an ideal number.

[Chisoxfn]

Something to consider as a general FYI, ...going forward, I believe the team will eat $ in the right deal more than they typically do.

Tied to them being more aggressive in moving Danks, I'd presume. As always appreciate the insight!

[GreenSox]

Some people hate to win - they feel guilty about winning. So they prefer sorry excuses and hero-worshiping and live in la la land.

 

If I get this right, Sale and Quintana are aces. 2 number 1s. Alexei is a gold glover; and the overall Sox defense is pretty good; Sox are 4th in homers, so the power is there.. Ventura is an ace manager- they play over their talent level with his high skills. Pretty close to contending, right there.

So...How do the Sox win 73? Bullpen cost 20 games? Bad luck.? Umps fault? If we just hadn't traded elite Addison Reed we'd have made the playoffs? LOL.

 

Sure the Sox could contend. Major upgrades at DH, LF, Bullpen and at 2 starter upgrades are needed (and perhaps 3b), but if they can take care of all or most of that, they could contend.

But yes, the Sox have defensive issues (can anyone seriously contend otherwise?) and power issues (middle of the pack statistically right now WHILE playing in a major home run hitters park).

Could this be cured in 6 months? Sure

Is it close? No.

Edited October 3, 2014 by GreenSox

[LDF]

Some people hate to win - they feel guilty about winning. So they prefer sorry excuses and hero-worshiping and live in la la land.

 

If I get this right, Sale and Quintana are aces. 2 number 1s. Alexei is a gold glover; and the overall Sox defense is pretty good; Sox are 4th in homers, so the power is there.. Ventura is an ace manager- they play over their talent level with his high skills. Pretty close to contending, right there.

So...How do the Sox win 73? Bullpen cost 20 games? Bad luck.? Umps fault? If we just hadn't traded elite Addison Reed we'd have made the playoffs? LOL.

 

Sure the Sox could contend. Major upgrades at DH, LF, Bullpen and at 2 starter upgrades are needed (and perhaps 3b), but if they can take care of all or most of that, they could contend.

But yes, the Sox have defensive issues (can anyone seriously contend otherwise?) and power issues (middle of the pack statistically right now WHILE playing in a major home run hitters park).

Could this be cured in 6 months? Sure

Is it close? No.

 

define upgrade, someone who will hit with power isn't that DV? how many

hrs does he have?

they may lose those power numbers that everybody is saying.

Dunn is traded / retired.

DV - what going to be traded or something else

who is going to replace those homeruns?

 

Reed is not an elite, but he is a closer. really how many more wins / saves

Reed could have added? no one will ever know.

 

[Boopa1219]

I think he's saying that signing two free agents with gualifying offers is worth the Sox losing their 2nd and 3rd round picks.

 

The Sox need their draft picks. We don't want to go through another stretch like 2007 - 2011 from a draft standpoint.

[BlackSox13]

The Sox need their draft picks. We don't want to go through another stretch like 2007 - 2011 from a draft standpoint.

I find it interesting how you quoted my post instead of Wite's. I wonder why that is...

 

I agree that we need draft picks to keep the farm going so that it can help feed the MLB team in the future. However, this team needs to continue improving if the Sox are going to get some butts back in the seats. The Sox don't have the internal options to fill the holes they have, not to make the team competitive anyway. So they just MIGHT have to sign a FA or two to fill those holes and try to make them a competitor or at the very least try to improve another ten games in the win column in 2015.

 

 

[Boopa1219]

I find it interesting how you quoted my post instead of Wite's. I wonder why that is...

 

I agree that we need draft picks to keep the farm going so that it can help feed the MLB team in the future. However, this team needs to continue improving if the Sox are going to get some butts back in the seats. The Sox don't have the internal options to fill the holes they have, not to make the team competitive anyway. So they just MIGHT have to sign a FA or two to fill those holes and try to make them a competitor or at the very least try to improve another ten games in the win column in 2015.

 

I like you, that's why.

 

On a serious note, that period of drafting from 2007 - 2011 is why the team has been in the position (Some might call it a rut) that it has been in. The team needs those draft picks to fill those holes internally.

 

The team needs to continue collecting and developing amateur talent, and avoid signing guys with QO's just to fill a hole. They should only sign guys with QO's, if they think that it brings them over the hump in regards to a championship and in my opinion the team is still another year away from competing for the division.

 

Baby steps... baby steps.

[Quin]

Here's the thing...

 

We got Spencer Adams with the 2nd pick. He's looking like a RHP with A+ stuff and an absurd K/BB ratio.

 

People wanted to sign Ubaldo Jimenez, who was hot garbage, and would have resulted in the Sox missing Adams.

 

It's not "don't sign FAs to keep draft picks." It's "don't sign s***ty FAs to keep draft picks."

[Balta1701]

define upgrade, someone who will hit with power isn't that DV? how many

hrs does he have?

they may lose those power numbers that everybody is saying.

Dunn is traded / retired.

DV - what going to be traded or something else

who is going to replace those homeruns?

 

Reed is not an elite, but he is a closer. really how many more wins / saves

Reed could have added? no one will ever know.

21 home runs really isn't that helpful if a guy is putting up the rest of the numbers Viciedo put up. He's bad on defense, he struck out 120+ times, he doesn't get on base, he didn't bring really anything else useful to the table, and he's going rapidly the wrong way. This is a bad combination.

[shysocks]

So...How do the Sox win 73? Bullpen cost 20 games? Bad luck.? Umps fault? If we just hadn't traded elite Addison Reed we'd have made the playoffs? LOL.

 

Sure the Sox could contend. Major upgrades at DH, LF, Bullpen and at 2 starter upgrades are needed (and perhaps 3b), but if they can take care of all or most of that, they could contend.

But yes, the Sox have defensive issues (can anyone seriously contend otherwise?) and power issues (middle of the pack statistically right now WHILE playing in a major home run hitters park).

Could this be cured in 6 months? Sure

Is it close? No.

The main culprits: a bad bullpen, a rotation full of holes, and an outfield that was banged up and unproductive.

 

The good news: As I try to explain on a weekly basis, a bad bullpen can be one of the quickest things to turn around, due simply to randomness if nothing else. Sign one good starting pitcher who stays healthy instead of giving 34 starts to the Carroll/Rienzo/Paulino hydra. Get an outfielder who isn't Dayan Viciedo. Use the rotating DH plan.

 

It isn't that difficult to imagine the Sox competing next year because a lot of the guys who cost us games will be gone.

[southsider2k5]

More hints from the front office. Reading between the lines here, forget about a top named starting pitcher.

 

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...ml#.VC6ihPldWSo

 

Hahn’s rebuilding plan has sustained long-term success in mind, but he will be more apt to spend in free agency this offseason than he was last offseason.

 

“Long-term targets are priority,’’ Hahn said. “We may be in position where shorter-term deals for veteran players might make sense.”

[witesoxfan]

More hints from the front office. Reading between the lines here, forget about a top named starting pitcher.

 

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...ml#.VC6ihPldWSo

 

I read "long-term targets cost a lot, short term targets cost less. We will figure out which make sense and which do not based on market availability."

[BlackSox13]

I like you, that's why.

 

On a serious note, that period of drafting from 2007 - 2011 is why the team has been in the position (Some might call it a rut) that it has been in. The team needs those draft picks to fill those holes internally.

 

The team needs to continue collecting and developing amateur talent, and avoid signing guys with QO's just to fill a hole. They should only sign guys with QO's, if they think that it brings them over the hump in regards to a championship and in my opinion the team is still another year away from competing for the division.

 

Baby steps... baby steps.

Its not about just filling a hole, its about getting players to help this team win to be competitive. The Sox don't have the fan base to do a baby step rebuild like the cubs have been doing. Hell, the cubs are finding out that even their fans are growing tired of it and want a competitor.

 

Again,I'm all for collecting young talent but this is a team that is currently looking at a speculated 2015 payroll of around 50M, a team that once had a payroll of about 128M in 2011. They have plenty of room on the field and in the budget to make this team competitive.

 

I'm not saying the Sox must sign a player or two that have draft pick compensation attached to them, I'm saying it should not be ruled out, not at this point anyway. If Hahn put together a few trades and signed a few relievers, signing one or two FA could end up being the missing pieces to winng the division in 2015. I won't rule anything out.

 

I like watching young players develope but I love watching the White Sox win!

[LDF]

21 home runs really isn't that helpful if a guy is putting up the rest of the numbers Viciedo put up. He's bad on defense, he struck out 120+ times, he doesn't get on base, he didn't bring really anything else useful to the table, and he's going rapidly the wrong way. This is a bad combination.

 

and I agree 100%. but don't forget he has power, players with power does not grow on

trees. also replacing that player with another player with same or more power and have

better hitting avg is going to be hard.

[Balta1701]

and I agree 100%. but don't forget he has power, players with power does not grow on

trees. also replacing that player with another player with same or more power and have

better hitting avg is going to be hard.

I would take less power in exchange for a generally better hitter. Only 1 of the top 5 teams in HR made the playoffs this year, Baltimore, while teams 29 and 30 both did. It's clearly helpful, it's not a bad thing, but you can't sacrifice all other parts of the game for power.

[LDF]

The good news: As I try to explain on a weekly basis, a bad bullpen can be one of the quickest things to turn around, due simply to randomness if nothing else. Sign one good starting pitcher who stays healthy instead of giving 34 starts to the Carroll/Rienzo/Paulino hydra. Get an outfielder who isn't Dayan Viciedo. Use the rotating DH plan.

 

It isn't that difficult to imagine the Sox competing next year because a lot of the guys who cost us games will be gone.

 

I am with you on this. the free agent does not have to be the best material but those who

can really fill a hole even if it is short term.

 

getting a player who is an absolute beast in power is not a requirement for not looking

for a player who may hit 15+ hrs with a good to great K's to balls ratio.

 

I could go on with my point to cover the pitching, but I think you all know what I am driving

at.

 

[LDF]

I would take less power in exchange for a generally better hitter. Only 1 of the top 5 teams in HR made the playoffs this year, Baltimore, while teams 29 and 30 both did. It's clearly helpful, it's not a bad thing, but you can't sacrifice all other parts of the game for power.

 

a great point I posted another opinion before you came out with this gem.

[Chisoxfn]

I would take less power in exchange for a generally better hitter. Only 1 of the top 5 teams in HR made the playoffs this year, Baltimore, while teams 29 and 30 both did. It's clearly helpful, it's not a bad thing, but you can't sacrifice all other parts of the game for power.

Great post.

[LDF]

I would take less power in exchange for a generally better hitter. Only 1 of the top 5 teams in HR made the playoffs this year, Baltimore, while teams 29 and 30 both did. It's clearly helpful, it's not a bad thing, but you can't sacrifice all other parts of the game for power.

 

here is another thought, homeruns help bring the fans out and put them in the seat. that

was the old way of thinking, which I always thought insulting. now, fans are getting smarter

and I think that fans are more for winning esp in the playoff than seeing all those pretty

fireworks go off.

 

at least I am talking about the Chicago white sox fans who are demanding as a whole.