KW "We're a lot closer than the record indicates"

[Balta1701]

Nah I don't want him. He can't stay healthy, strikes out a lot and should be a better hitter than he's shown to be. At his age, it's harder to get better.

Much of that is true, but I disagree with the "it's harder for a guy in his mid 20s to get better" claim.

 

That said, I want to see what he can do this year, especially with a new hitting coach. He has gotten worse each of the last 2 years with the bat, one more downgrade next year and you do start questioning what he can provide and you really don't offer him that big contract.

[iamshack]

This is how the world works these days. If we're comparing offering a guy in his late 20's an 8 year deal and a guy in his late 30's a 3 year deal...I find myself leaning towards the former.

If you want a young free agent, perhaps. I've seen nothing from Heyward that would make me comfortable with an 8-10 year contract.

 

 

[LDF]

Abreu was more of a pressing need, and he is the type of player that the Sox would normally not be able to get.

This has to be the lamest excuse ever. Now I know you're trolling.

 

The Sox need a middle of the order lefty bat, better defense in RF and are looking for core players are in their early to mid twenties, that's Heyward. Its academic.

 

when the sox went to sox out Abreu, the sox was in the beginning of rebuilding. the sox

org, esp KW did not know that much about Abreu. it was there that KW call JR after the

showcase and raved about him JR trusting KW and his excitement and over bid even to KW

surprise.

 

it was during this season and all the other players did the sox org realize they had players

to compete.

 

so in essence, if other teams realize how great Abreu was, do you think that the sox would

have outbid for his services?

 

[BlackSox13]

when the sox went to sox out Abreu, the sox was in the beginning of rebuilding. the sox

org, esp KW did not know that much about Abreu. it was there that KW call JR after the

showcase and raved about him JR trusting KW and his excitement and over bid even to KW

surprise.

 

it was during this season and all the other players did the sox org realize they had players

to compete.

 

so in essence, if other teams realize how great Abreu was, do you think that the sox would

have outbid for his services?

My point to Joshua in all this is he's talking like Heyward is old and wont improve but yet the Sox took a chance on a player with no MLB experience and 2.5 years older. Heyward has shown what he is capable of and at only 25 there's no reason to write him off. That is just trolling.

[Boopa1219]

when the sox went to sox out Abreu, the sox was in the beginning of rebuilding. the sox

org, esp KW did not know that much about Abreu. it was there that KW call JR after the

showcase and raved about him JR trusting KW and his excitement and over bid even to KW

surprise.

 

it was during this season and all the other players did the sox org realize they had players

to compete.

 

so in essence, if other teams realize how great Abreu was, do you think that the sox would

have outbid for his services?

 

I am saying that if the market had more demand (Meaning if the Red Sox, Dodgers and Yankees didn't have first basemen.) there would be no way he plays in Chicago. If I remember correctly, the final three teams bidding Abreu were the Sox, Houston and Colorado.

[LDF]

My point to Joshua in all this is he's talking like Heyward is old and wont improve but yet the Sox took a

chance on a player with no MLB experience and 2.5 years older. Heyward has shown what he is capable

of and at only 25 there's no reason to write him off. That is just trolling.

 

no, it is just his opinion and you and Joshua has a point and believe me when I say this

a valid opinion.

 

I would never have known about Heyward unless I read this thread.

 

 

 

[LDF]

I am saying that if the market had more demand (Meaning if the Red Sox, Dodgers and Yankees didn't have first basemen.) there would be no way he plays in Chicago. If I remember correctly, the final three teams bidding Abreu were the Sox, Houston and Colorado.

 

and you too are correct as STR.

 

I believe the sox were is bidding war with other teams, the sox would almost always

loose.

[Boopa1219]

no, it is just his opinion and you and Joshua has a point and believe me when I say this

a valid opinion.

 

I would never have known about Heyward unless I read this thread.

 

Thank you

[BlackSox13]

no, it is just his opinion and you and Joshua has a point and believe me when I say this

a valid opinion.

 

I would never have known about Heyward unless I read this thread.

Reread his comments and then go have a look at Heyward's stats and bio. In fact, here you go...

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/...a01.shtml?redir

 

I don't care that he and I disagree, its the lame ass excuses being made. 25 years old does not mean he will not get better or is too old, 98 k's in 649 at bats is not "too much", Heyward playing in 149 games in 2014 is not being injured too often. Joshua even said Heyward would turn 26 by the start of the 2015 season which was bulls***.

 

I could respect the opinion if Joshua just simply said he was not interested, fine. But he's throwing random nonsense out there and they are nothing more than excuses with no sense or credibility at all. There is a wonderful tool known as google search and very user friendly. Rather than throwing out nonsense, wouldn't it be better to look it up first? No offense LDF, I stand by my trolling comment.

[GreenSox]

I am saying that if the market had more demand (Meaning if the Red Sox, Dodgers and Yankees didn't have first basemen.) there would be no way he plays in Chicago. If I remember correctly, the final three teams bidding Abreu were the Sox, Houston and Colorado.

The point if bit circular. Boston did bid on Abreu. They just valued him differently.

 

Yes, if those teams like a player equally as the Sox, one would think they would bid more. But there's a lot of room there tool.

[LDF]

Reread his comments and then go have a look at Heyward's stats and bio. In fact, here you go...

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/...a01.shtml?redir

 

I don't care that he and I disagree, its the lame ass excuses being made. 25 years old does not mean he will not get better or is too old, 98 k's in 649 at bats is not "too much", Heyward playing in 149 games in 2014 is not being injured too often. Joshua even said Heyward would turn 26 by the start of the 2015 season which was bulls***.

 

I could respect the opinion if Joshua just simply said he was not interested, fine. But he's throwing random nonsense out there and they are nothing more than excuses with no sense or credibility at all. There is a wonderful tool known as google search and very user friendly. Rather than throwing out nonsense, wouldn't it be better to look it up first? No offense LDF, I stand by my trolling comment.

 

I understand what you are saying, last wk a poster, I can't remember who, said that DV was too

old to improve his hitting and DV is 25. Heyward would be interesting if the price is right.

 

I will be honest and this is what bugs me. at what point does a players stop developing?

 

 

[BlackSox13]

I understand what you are saying, last wk a poster, I can't remember who, said that DV was too

old to improve his hitting and DV is 25. Heyward would be interesting if the price is right.

 

I will be honest and this is what bugs me. at what point does a players stop developing?

I think that's entirely up to the player. Most players would seem to develope right up to their peak around the age of 30, give or take. Truth is, its a gamble on projected upside. One thing is for sure, teams will guess right on some and wrong on probably most.

 

Sometimes it takes a change of scenery/ coaching staff for a player to get over that hump, sometimes a team needs a change of players and other times s*** just doesn't work out, again that's the gamble.

 

Swisher is a decent example. The guy hit pretty well in a pitchers park out in Oakland and he projected well when factoring in the Cell being a hitters park and batting in a lineup with PK and Thome. Oddly enough it just did not work as planned despite his power numbers still there but his batting average and walks took a dive.

[Boopa1219]

Report from MLBTradeRumors.com:

Zach Links expects right-hander Justin Masterson to settle for a pillow contract to rebuild his value after a down 2014 and $12MM for that one year could make sense.

 

I personally don't think that he's worth $12N for one year.

[LDF]

I think that's entirely up to the player. Most players would seem to develope right up to their peak around the age of 30, give or take. Truth is, its a gamble on projected upside. One thing is for sure, teams will guess right on some and wrong on probably most.

 

Sometimes it takes a change of scenery/ coaching staff for a player to get over that hump, sometimes a team needs a change of players and other times s*** just doesn't work out, again that's the gamble.

 

Swisher is a decent example. The guy hit pretty well in a pitchers park out in Oakland and he projected well when factoring in the Cell being a hitters park and batting in a lineup with PK and Thome. Oddly enough it just did not work as planned despite his power numbers still there but his batting average and walks took a dive.

 

you have a good point, I would like to also add, players do have a bad yr.

[LDF]

Report from MLBTradeRumors.com:

Zach Links expects right-hander Justin Masterson to settle for a pillow contract to rebuild his value after a down 2014 and $12MM for that one year could make sense.

 

I personally don't think that he's worth $12N for one year.

 

when I read that, I was thinking if the journalist was wishful thinking or trying to relay

info from Masterson camp.

 

me. I agree, he is not worth 12 mil then again I am a fan and thinking as a fan. it is the

baseball people who will determine what he is worth. however, I think something like

8-10 mil.

[AlSoxfan]

Report from MLBTradeRumors.com:

Zach Links expects right-hander Justin Masterson to settle for a pillow contract to rebuild his value after a down 2014 and $12MM for that one year could make sense.

 

I personally don't think that he's worth $12N for one year.

 

Yea that's some kinda pillow, but he was hurt most of the year an if he comes back an pitches like he did in 13 it would be a bargain. Not much out there in FA starting pitchers. A one year contract might give Rodon time to adjust. I'd at least kick the tires a time or 2

 

[Boopa1219]

when I read that, I was thinking if the journalist was wishful thinking or trying to relay

info from Masterson camp.

 

me. I agree, he is not worth 12 mil then again I am a fan and thinking as a fan. it is the

baseball people who will determine what he is worth. however, I think something like

8-10 mil.

 

I would give him $8M guaranteed for one year and the rest would be incentives. I don't imagine him getting a QO either, which is good for the Sox.

[LittleHurt05]

Report from MLBTradeRumors.com:

Zach Links expects right-hander Justin Masterson to settle for a pillow contract to rebuild his value after a down 2014 and $12MM for that one year could make sense.

 

I personally don't think that he's worth $12N for one year.

 

While he may not be worth $12 million, the length of the deal is huge. Compare that to Shields who may get in the ballpark of 4/$60 or 5/$72 or something like that. Sure, Shields is the better pitcher, there's a lot more risk with the long-term deal.

[SCCWS]

While he may not be worth $12 million, the length of the deal is huge. Compare that to Shields who may get in the ballpark of 4/$60 or 5/$72 or something like that. Sure, Shields is the better pitcher, there's a lot more risk with the long-term deal.

 

Cubs and Red Sox may both be interested in Masterson based on his time spent in Boston minors and majors. If he takes $8Mil and still struggles as a starter, maybe he will try closer. I believe he set up for Papelbon when he first came up.

 

[Y2Jimmy0]

I would give him $8M guaranteed for one year and the rest would be incentives. I don't imagine him getting a QO either, which is good for the Sox.

 

 

He isn't eligible for a QO because he was traded at midseason.

[southsider2k5]

Report from MLBTradeRumors.com:

Zach Links expects right-hander Justin Masterson to settle for a pillow contract to rebuild his value after a down 2014 and $12MM for that one year could make sense.

 

I personally don't think that he's worth $12N for one year.

 

This is why I think Masterson is a great fit for the Sox. He wants a short term deal. The Sox have one eye on the future with some of the pitching in the minors. Cooper is the master fixer upper.

 

It just makes too much sense.

[southsider2k5]

I would give him $8M guaranteed for one year and the rest would be incentives. I don't imagine him getting a QO either, which is good for the Sox.

 

Even if the Sox were to give him a number that seems too big for one year, it is only for one year. There is literally no one else on the market with is pedigree that would come here for $12 million. All of the others are looking at a number 10 times that.

[ChiSox59]

While he may not be worth $12 million, the length of the deal is huge. Compare that to Shields who may get in the ballpark of 4/$60 or 5/$72 or something like that. Sure, Shields is the better pitcher, there's a lot more risk with the long-term deal.

 

Shields is going to get a lot more than 4 years $60M or 5 years and $72. I am thinking 5/$90 in the bare minimum. If the SOX could get him at 4 years and $60M, I'd do cartwheels.

[Eminor3rd]

This is why I think Masterson is a great fit for the Sox. He wants a short term deal. The Sox have one eye on the future with some of the pitching in the minors. Cooper is the master fixer upper.

 

It just makes too much sense.

 

The other thing I like about Masterson is that if he fails as a starter, he could make a great right-handed setup guy.

[greg775]

Shields is going to get a lot more than 4 years $60M or 5 years and $72. I am thinking 5/$90 in the bare minimum. If the SOX could get him at 4 years and $60M, I'd do cartwheels.

 

What do advanced stats say about Shields and his immediate future as he continues to age? I'm not being smart aleck I'm serious. Cause the eye test tells me he's not dominant and could be a huge free agent bust moving forward.

I am right now listening to talk radio and the hosts are saying he's not worth the money and the Royals properly will let him walk. Granted they can't afford him but they also are saying good riddance because he's certain to be on the decline.

Little surprised people on this board wanted to get rid of Buehrle and want Shields. Interesting considering the ages of said pitchers at times of signing.