KW "We're a lot closer than the record indicates"

[GreenSox]

I like what Hahn's done a lot.

The farm's a lot better, he's moved dead weight out of town. And a lot of dead weight there was.

For all the grief the pen gets, we found at least 3 legit bullpen pitchers this year: Petricka, Putnam and Guerra. And all 3 have the stones to close.

 

He started a rebuilding process, and he's gotten several plus talents. Rebuilding is just hard and tedious.

 

But 2 hitters, a starter and some better defense would do wonders for this team.

But that is really hard to find. Not much available as FA, and teams don't want to trade quality players.

Edited October 4, 2014 by GreenSox

[GreenSox]

I would take less power in exchange for a generally better hitter. Only 1 of the top 5 teams in HR made the playoffs this year, Baltimore, while teams 29 and 30 both did. It's clearly helpful, it's not a bad thing, but you can't sacrifice all other parts of the game for power.

I would just say that given our park, we need a certain level of power. We have no choice, really, if we want to win.

[Balta1701]

I would just say that given our park, we need a certain level of power. We have no choice, really, if we want to win.

And we are sitting here with Jose Abreu and hopefully Avi Garcia. The heart of our order should already be power loaded.

 

We have the power component already and we're going to keep going with that. Give me hitters not bellyitchers right now.

[LDF]

I like what Hahn's done a lot.

The farm's a lot better, he's moved dead weight out of town. And a lot of dead weight there was.

For all the grief the pen gets, we found at least 3 legit bullpen pitchers this year: Petricka, Putnam and Guerra. And all 3 have the stones to close.

 

He started a rebuilding process, and he's gotten several plus talents. Rebuilding is just hard and tedious.

 

But 2 hitters, a starter and some better defense would do wonders for this team.

But that is really hard to find. Not much available as FA, and teams don't want to trade quality players.

 

I think you forgot about Hector Noesi, he was a great find.

also how bout all the trades done that brought back a few promising players. A nice rtn

for the original person being traded.

[kitekrazy]

I think some people on this board are really over-valuing draft picks. 1st rounders are obviously important, but losing 2nd & 3rd round picks should never sway you from adding an impact player, at least if you think you're team is close to being competitive.

 

And I get you also lose their bonus allotment, but when you're trying to add outside talent and the trade-off is losing a pick/bonus or trading away partially developed prospects, I'm going to sacrifice the unknown commodity first every single time.

 

As for position players I believe the instruction at the minor league level is not very good. They can only produce DH/1B which any organization can do that.

 

[LDF]

And we are sitting here with Jose Abreu and hopefully Avi Garcia. The heart of our order should already be power loaded.

 

We have the power component already and we're going to keep going with that. Give me hitters not bellyitchers right now.

 

Balta, pls excuse me but let me add, the sox do have the 2 slugging hitters. now support them

with players who can put the ball in play with an occasional home run power, something in the

10-15 range a yr. with that mix, I believe that would give the sox plenty of offense.

[LDF]

As for position players I believe the instruction at the minor league level is not very good. They can only produce DH/1B which any organization can do that.

 

I agree and I hope that in the future the coaches will be able to address the concept of

hitting. in addition to identify better prospects for the selection in the quality of the

drafted players.

Edited October 4, 2014 by LDF

[GreenSox]

And we are sitting here with Jose Abreu and hopefully Avi Garcia. The heart of our order should already be power loaded.

 

We have the power component already and we're going to keep going with that. Give me hitters not bellyitchers right now.

Garcia is not power hitter at this time.

There are a lot of ways to do it - have a lineup full of guys who can hit 15-20. Alexei can do it; Flowers can do it. Garcia is in that number.

Or A few who hit 25-35.

Needless to say, the new DH and LF are huge gets for this team's ability to contend.

 

Hahn has intentionally put together a groundball staff to counteract opponents' power in the Cell. But for that to work to its potential, you need killer IF defense.

Edited October 4, 2014 by GreenSox

[caulfield12]

I think we will go after someone like heyward, parra, lagares, Cain, dyson...etc. josh Hamilton should not be in the plans.

 

The only problem is the advantage of strong outfield defenders isn't as pronounced at USCellular. Seeing the direction the royals are going in...we need to get Gillaspie viciedo and potentially avisail off the field and dhing.

 

Of course, that's not possible...but one can easily envision a lineup of semien Johnson and eaton trying to emulate the athleticism of kc.

 

Of course we also need Herrera Davis finnegan and holland lol.

Edited October 4, 2014 by caulfield12

[BlackSox13]

I think we will go after someone like heyward, parra, lagares, Cain, dyson...etc. josh Hamilton should not be in the plans.

 

The only problem is the advantage of strong outfield defenders isn't as pronounced at USCellular. Seeing the direction the royals are going in...we need to get Gillaspie viciedo and potentially avisail off the field and dhing.

 

Of course, that's not possible...but one can easily envision a lineup of semien Johnson and eaton trying to emulate the athleticism of kc.

 

Of course we also need Herrera Davis finnegan and holland lol.

What do you think it would take to get a guy like Hayward? A down season and one year remaining til free agency should make Atlanta's expectations reasonable. Of course I would only do it if I were confident in getting Hayward extended.

 

Hayward would bring great defense to RF and move Avi to LF where he's better suited anyway.

[Chicago White Sox]

What do you think it would take to get a guy like Hayward? A down season and one year remaining til free agency should make Atlanta's expectations reasonable. Of course I would only do it if I were confident in getting Hayward extended.

 

Hayward would bring great defense to RF and move Avi to LF where he's better suited anyway.

I think he'll be too expensive, as his "down" year was still incredibly valuable due to his defense (if you believe those metrics).

 

I'd much rather target Jay Bruce, because his price will definitely be down and he offers three years of team control vs. one.

 

Now, if Heyward does reach free agency next offseason, he's one of the few free agents I'd spend a boatload of money on.

[Boopa1219]

Its not about just filling a hole, its about getting players to help this team win to be competitive. The Sox don't have the fan base to do a baby step rebuild like the cubs have been doing. Hell, the cubs are finding out that even their fans are growing tired of it and want a competitor.

 

Again,I'm all for collecting young talent but this is a team that is currently looking at a speculated 2015 payroll of around 50M, a team that once had a payroll of about 128M in 2011. They have plenty of room on the field and in the budget to make this team competitive.

 

I'm not saying the Sox must sign a player or two that have draft pick compensation attached to them, I'm saying it should not be ruled out, not at this point anyway. If Hahn put together a few trades and signed a few relievers, signing one or two FA could end up being the missing pieces to winng the division in 2015. I won't rule anything out.

 

I like watching young players develope but I love watching the White Sox win!

 

What did that $127M payroll bring the sox? And just because you have a lot of room to operate from a financial standpoint, you don't have to spend it all in one off season. What I am trying to say is that having a big payroll doesn't guarantee success and just because you have money to spend, you shouldn't blow it all immediately. I personally think that the team is farther away from contending than most people. I think that 2015 will be another building year (The 'goal' next year is .500 in my opinion and it's what I expect) and the team won't be competitive till 2016.

 

I don't want it to sound like I am overvaluing draft picks, but they are very crucial to the health of a franchise. Look at teams like the Cardinals for example. The Cardinals are the best organization in baseball in my opinion and they are always in the mix for the title because they have a constant stream of home grown talent coming up from the farm, you never see them sacrificing draft picks ever, unless it's for a player that will bring them over the hump. The Sox need all the draft they can get right now, yes the farm has improved but it still has a ways to go. The Sox shouldn't be relying on FA to fill holes, that's what got the team in the position it is now, we need those draft picks to give us those internal options. I am not saying that I don't want the team to sign any FAs, I just don't think that they should one if a draft pick is attached.

 

I love watching the Sox win just as much as you do, I just want them to start looking towards the future more as opposed to just the following season.

[BlackSox13]

What did that $127M payroll bring the sox? And just because you have a lot of room to operate from a financial standpoint, you don't have to spend it all in one off season. What I am trying to say is that having a big payroll doesn't guarantee success and just because you have money to spend, you shouldn't blow it all immediately. I personally think that the team is farther away from contending than most people. I think that 2015 will be another building year (The 'goal' next year is .500 in my opinion and it's what I expect) and the team won't be competitive till 2016.

 

I don't want it to sound like I am overvaluing draft picks, but they are very crucial to the health of a franchise. Look at teams like the Cardinals for example. The Cardinals are the best organization in baseball in my opinion and they are always in the mix for the title because they have a constant stream of home grown talent coming up from the farm, you never see them sacrificing draft picks ever, unless it's for a player that will bring them over the hump. The Sox need all the draft they can get right now, yes the farm has improved but it still has a ways to go. The Sox shouldn't be relying on FA to fill holes, that's what got the team in the position it is now, we need those draft picks to give us those internal options. I am not saying that I don't want the team to sign any FAs, I just don't think that they should one if a draft pick is attached.

 

I love watching the Sox win just as much as you do, I just want them to start looking towards the future more as opposed to just the following season.

I agree with everything you say here, especially about the Cards and their farm.

 

Problem is attendance. Sox fans have shown they will not come out and watch mediocre baseball. In 2007 the average attendance was 36,511, in 2014 it was 20,896. Every year it keeps going down. It can't be easy getting TV adverts when the camera shows all those empty seats. Adverts must be thinking " who the hell are we targeting?" and judging by the declining TV audience I'd say there's something to that.

 

 

[Balta1701]

I think he'll be too expensive, as his "down" year was still incredibly valuable due to his defense (if you believe those metrics).

 

I'd much rather target Jay Bruce, because his price will definitely be down and he offers three years of team control vs. one.

 

Now, if Heyward does reach free agency next offseason, he's one of the few free agents I'd spend a boatload of money on.

Depending on what we see on the trade market this offseason...Heyward is the guy I've got in the corner of my eye next offseason. He would be a long term fit because he's so long, he's a guy who covers lots of ground on defense and has plenty of offensive ceiling, he'll be extremely expensive but that's the one big money FA who could be an ideal fit with our needs.

 

If we haven't solved that corner OF spot by next offseason and we have the ability to offer big deal....I'd be intrigued.

[Boopa1219]

Depending on what we see on the trade market this offseason...Heyward is the guy I've got in the corner of my eye next offseason. He would be a long term fit because he's so long, he's a guy who covers lots of ground on defense and has plenty of offensive ceiling, he'll be extremely expensive but that's the one big money FA who could be an ideal fit with our needs.

 

If we haven't solved that corner OF spot by next offseason and we have the ability to offer big deal....I'd be intrigued.

 

I agree with everything you say here, especially about the Cards and their farm.

 

Problem is attendance. Sox fans have shown they will not come out and watch mediocre baseball. In 2007 the average attendance was 36,511, in 2014 it was 20,896. Every year it keeps going down. It can't be easy getting TV adverts when the camera shows all those empty seats. Adverts must be thinking " who the hell are we targeting?" and judging by the declining TV audience I'd say there's something to that.

 

Heyward is not that young, he's going to be 26 at the start of the season.

 

And if the Sox just play solid and competitive baseball, the fans will come back, albeit slowly.

[Balta1701]

Heyward is not that young, he's going to be 26 at the start of the season.

 

And if the Sox just play solid and competitive baseball, the fans will come back, albeit slowly.

If we're looking at guys who are long term options, a guy who is going to be 27 when he hits free agency seems like about the most sensible one we could make.

 

I am not going to complain if we're being bottom feeders, but if I'm comparing whether we should spend money on pitchers in their mid 30s and DHs in their late 30s or a 27 year old OF, I lean strongly towards the latter.

 

None of them are going to be fair contracts, but the guy who is 27 seems a whole lot more likely to perform well during most of his huge contract.

[BlackSox13]

Heyward is not that young, he's going to be 26 at the start of the season.

 

And if the Sox just play solid and competitive baseball, the fans will come back, albeit slowly.

Heyward will not turn 26 until August of 2015. Oh yeah, Abreu is 2.5 years older than Heyward but it didn't stop the Sox now did it? Heyward fits into the age group that Hahn is looking for in a core of players.

 

 

[GreenSox]

Heyward is not that young, he's going to be 26 at the start of the season.

 

And if the Sox just play solid and competitive baseball, the fans will come back, albeit slowly.

A 3-5 year deal takes him right through the prime years. I just wish he was FA this year.

 

[Balta1701]

A 3-5 year deal takes him right through the prime years. I just wish he was FA this year.

Only way he gets a 3-5 year deal is if he puts up a sub-.700 OPS next year or blows out a knee. Even repeats this season and he's in the 8-10 year range, no doubt whatsoever.

 

And I'd do that if we don't fill that corner OF hole this offseason.

[iamshack]

Only way he gets a 3-5 year deal is if he puts up a sub-.700 OPS next year or blows out a knee. Even repeats this season and he's in the 8-10 year range, no doubt whatsoever.

 

And I'd do that if we don't fill that corner OF hole this offseason.

I want no part of an 8-10 year contract.

[Balta1701]

I want no part of an 8-10 year contract.

This is how the world works these days. If we're comparing offering a guy in his late 20's an 8 year deal and a guy in his late 30's a 3 year deal...I find myself leaning towards the former.

[BlackSox13]

All the more reason to trade Heyward provided the Sox were given a window on an extension like they did with Garcia from Seattle. Waiting until Heyward hits free agency allows many other teams to compete for him as well as allows Heyward a chance to rebound in 2015 to rebuild his value and drive up the price in FA.

[Boopa1219]

Heyward will not turn 26 until August of 2015. Oh yeah, Abreu is 2.5 years older than Heyward but it didn't stop the Sox now did it? Heyward fits into the age group that Hahn is looking for in a core of players.

 

Abreu was more of a pressing need, and he is the type of player that the Sox would normally not be able to get.

[BlackSox13]

Abreu was more of a pressing need, and he is the type of player that the Sox would normally not be able to get.

This has to be the lamest excuse ever. Now I know you're trolling.

 

The Sox need a middle of the order lefty bat, better defense in RF and are looking for core players are in their early to mid twenties, that's Heyward. Its academic.

[Boopa1219]

This has to be the lamest excuse ever. Now I know you're trolling.

 

The Sox need a middle of the order lefty bat, better defense in RF and are looking for core players are in their early to mid twenties, that's Heyward. Its academic.

 

Nah I don't want him. He can't stay healthy, strikes out a lot and should be a better hitter than he's shown to be. At his age, it's harder to get better.