caulfield12 Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 (edited) Let's start with the startling +65 for Gordon/dyson/Cain....and overall positive 45 for all royals outfielders. The white sox were not surprisingly at -23 for 23rd (among all outfields), with viciedo being fourth worst in the majors and Garcia not much better. The one that jumps out is Alexei Ramirez at -5. With the unlikelihood of competing in 2015, a trade would seem the most logical move, also keeping in mind his offensive regression in the second half. We have -17 at first base (last overall), -12 at third, -10 in left and -21 in right. Catcher was league average and 2b +2. Unless we play Sanchez there we are likely to be negative with semien and/or Micah. Not even counting Dayan, we have three black holes in Abreu Garcia and Conor. The only player/position to grade out well was cf/eaton at +9 and one of the fifteen or so best individually. Other than trading for lagares inciarte nava Leonys Martin parra Heyward Jackie Bradley jr. Kiermaier or dyson we're not going to see wholesale improvement and most of those aforementioned players are offensively challenged. If there's such a thing as the Walt hrniak of defense we need him now and badly. Edited October 4, 2014 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 I'm not a big fan of DRS at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boopa1219 Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 I like the metric, although I am a huge proponent of sabremetrics, I think that's it's something that you should use to get an idea of a player's value on the field rather than taking it fave value. Defensive metrics are still a work in progress. However I am not surprised by this, the Sox are horrible defensively and that is a area that needs to be improved this off season. I still stick to my idea about moving Garcia to 1B and Abreu to DH. Garcia leaves much to be desired on the field and I think he could be a plus defender at 1B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 I heard a discussion on fielding recently and it was brought up that Oakland was interesting. They were 2nd in AL in ERA but next to last in fielding defense. The 5 playoff teams in AL finished 2-3-9-10-14 in AL fielding defense. That stat is mediocre but it is an indication that defense did not have a major affect on the outcome this season. I am concerned about defense as well which is why I don't like Semien as an option in 2015. He was worse than Gillaspie at 3B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 If they had Alexei at a negative number, there is a major problem with the stat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Oct 4, 2014 -> 10:56 AM) I like the metric, although I am a huge proponent of sabremetrics, I think that's it's something that you should use to get an idea of a player's value on the field rather than taking it fave value. Defensive metrics are still a work in progress. However I am not surprised by this, the Sox are horrible defensively and that is a area that needs to be improved this off season. I still stick to my idea about moving Garcia to 1B and Abreu to DH. Garcia leaves much to be desired on the field and I think he could be a plus defender at 1B. What makes you think Garcia would be a plus defender at 1B? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 QUOTE (Jake @ Oct 4, 2014 -> 10:32 AM) I'm not a big fan of DRS at all Haven't been to one in years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boopa1219 Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 4, 2014 -> 11:50 AM) What makes you think Garcia would be a plus defender at 1B? I like his athleticism and his arm strength, both which I think are superior to Abreu's and it would be really hard for him to be worst in RF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 4, 2014 -> 11:50 AM) What makes you think Garcia would be a plus defender at 1B? It is WAY too early to give up on Avi in the OF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boopa1219 Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 It's something that needs to be discussed. He is already 6'4, 240 and he's only going to get slower and bigger out there. Plus moving him to first could help improve the team's overall defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 4, 2014 -> 05:19 PM) If they had Alexei at a negative number, there is a major problem with the stat. I agree with this. Plus the idea of moving players around to different positions because they supposedly suck at one doesn't mean they are going to do better magically at another. I kind of believe that if you can't play defense when you make the mayors then forget it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boopa1219 Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 4, 2014 -> 10:22 AM) Let's start with the startling +65 for Gordon/dyson/Cain....and overall positive 45 for all royals outfielders. The white sox were not surprisingly at -23 for 23rd (among all outfields), with viciedo being fourth worst in the majors and Garcia not much better. The one that jumps out is Alexei Ramirez at -5. With the unlikelihood of competing in 2015, a trade would seem the most logical move, also keeping in mind his offensive regression in the second half. We have -17 at first base (last overall), -12 at third, -10 in left and -21 in right. Catcher was league average and 2b +2. Unless we play Sanchez there we are likely to be negative with semien and/or Micah. Not even counting Dayan, we have three black holes in Abreu Garcia and Conor. The only player/position to grade out well was cf/eaton at +9 and one of the fifteen or so best individually. Other than trading for lagares inciarte nava Leonys Martin parra Heyward Jackie Bradley jr. Kiermaier or dyson we're not going to see wholesale improvement and most of those aforementioned players are offensively challenged. If there's such a thing as the Walt hrniak of defense we need him now and badly. Where did you get this info from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boopa1219 Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Oct 4, 2014 -> 12:09 PM) I agree with this. Plus the idea of moving players around to different positions because they supposedly suck at one doesn't mean they are going to do better magically at another. I kind of believe that if you can't play defense when you make the mayors then forget it Good thing you're not in player development then. Teams have coaches that teach players about fielding and playing at certain positions. Joey Cora was that guy for Ozzie, and Ron Washington was that guy for Art Howe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 I think Abreu is -11 not -17. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 QUOTE (SCCWS @ Oct 4, 2014 -> 01:38 PM) I think Abreu is -11 not -17. Did I read right that "1b" is -17? Because that would make sense with Abreu being -11, Konerko and Dunn played there sometimes too and they're awful. Also worth adding...Abreu started off terribly and nearly got himself killed a couple times in the field early in the year and definitely improved as the year went along (just getting the footwork down was a big step). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Thanks for posting this. I wonder how Eaton grades out. I am sure there are some flaws in this methodology. But overall, it comports with what anyone who watched the Sox play a few games knew: this is a poor defensive team. It's another reason why this team seems to play below it's talent level. One of the challenges is LF. To get the O we need there, you usually don't get the D. 3B too. And it won't be fixed with hero-worshiping and magic dust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 5, 2014 Author Share Posted October 5, 2014 Www.baseball-reference.com Flowers 3 Nieto -5 Abreu -11 Dunn -5 Konerko 0 Beckham 3 Leury 1 Sanchez/semien -1 Leury 3 Semien -3 Gillespie -12 Alexei -4 Semien/Garcia 0 Left field Danks -3 Dayan -8 Deaza/Sierra +1 Taylor -1 Cf Danks 0 Eaton 12 Deaza/Sierra/Garcia -1 Rf Viciedo -9 Sierra +1 Dunn -3 A.garcia -10 27. Chw -56 28. Detroit -64 29. Minn -72 30. Cle -74 2. Stl 66 3. Balt 50 4. Kc 41 6. Pitt 37 7. Oak 33 8. Lad 28 Washington 11 Sfg -4 Laa -15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 5, 2014 Author Share Posted October 5, 2014 (edited) Six of the top eight drs teams made the playoffs. I'd say that's definitely a strong correlation. The four al central teams not named Kansas City finished at the very bottom of mlb. We all know the tigers win because of their hitting and starting rotation...defense/bullpen/fundamentals/speed be damned. Edited October 5, 2014 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlSoxfan Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Www.baseball-reference.com Flowers 3 Nieto -5 Abreu -11 Dunn -5 Konerko 0 Beckham 3 Leury 1 Sanchez/semien -1 Leury 3 Semien -3 Gillespie -12 Alexei -4 Semien/Garcia 0 Left field Danks -3 Dayan -8 Deaza/Sierra +1 Taylor -1 Cf Danks 0 Eaton 12 Deaza/Sierra/Garcia -1 Rf Viciedo -9 Sierra +1 Dunn -3 A.garcia -10 27. Chw -56 28. Detroit -64 29. Minn -72 30. Cle -74 2. Stl 66 3. Balt 50 4. Kc 41 6. Pitt 37 7. Oak 33 8. Lad 28 Washington 11 Sfg -4 Laa -15 [/quote I don't know much about these stats but over all they seem to fit, but when i look at individual players I question them. Like Lexi at -4, Flowers at +3, Deaza/Sierra +1 in LF. We were way down the bottom of the list in runs allowed, and were up the list in runs scored. That would tell me we need better pitching and defense. We know the bullpen was bad. I wonder if our defense was better how much that would of helped them and the starting pitching. I also question if FA pitchers look at a teams defense before signing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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