White Sox see multiple players on top defensive MiLB CF's

[witesoxfan]

How high of a ceiling can be projected for a player that's struggling to hit his way out of AA? That's why I say, AT THIS POINT, when I refer to his ceiling is lower than Danks floor. Danks has made it to the big league club, something ( at this point) I doubt Trayce will be able to do. I hope I'm wrong.

 

His ceiling can still be pretty damn high because he's an incredibly talented individual. Trayce Thompson's ceiling and talent level is that of a 3-4 WAR player who makes an All-Star appearance or two, but his floor is that of a guy who will never get out of AAA. I also doubt Thompson will ever get to the majors and turn into a steady performer.

 

Jared Mitchell's ceiling is higher than Jordan Danks' too. Just because a guy has a higher ceiling and is more talented overall means relatively jack squat.

 

 

[BlackSox13]

You have a clear misunderstanding of ceilings for prospects.

 

Ceiling is everything goes right and clicks for them, not his current production.

Not at all, I understand ceilings. I get " if everything goes right". The reality is that not everything is going right. When a young player does well, their projected ceiling goes up based on performance does it not? Then why does Trayce still project such a high ceiling when he continues to struggle two levels below the majors? A player that, for now, has stalled out at AA does not project much ceiling to due the stalled developed... for now.

 

His ceiling can still be pretty damn high because he's an incredibly talented individual. Trayce Thompson's ceiling and talent level is that of a 3-4 WAR player who makes an All-Star appearance or two, but his floor is that of a guy who will never get out of AAA. I also doubt Thompson will ever get to the majors and turn into a steady performer.

 

Jared Mitchell's ceiling is higher than Jordan Danks' too. Just because a guy has a higher ceiling and is more talented overall means relatively jack squat.

Don't take this as my being a smart ass but...

 

How can you give a higher ceiling to player (Trayce) that has struggled at AA than a player (Danks) that has actually made it to the MLB while admitting you doubt Trayce will ever make it to the major league level? In all honesty it makes no sense.

 

I understand Trayce has good tools, but any tool is useless if a person cannot utilize them.

[southsider2k5]

Not at all, I understand ceilings. I get " if everything goes right". The reality is that not everything is going right. When a young player does well, their projected ceiling goes up based on performance does it not? Then why does Trayce still project such a high ceiling when he continues to struggle two levels below the majors? A player that, for now, has stalled out at AA does not project much ceiling to due the stalled developed... for now.

 

 

Don't take this as my being a smart ass but...

 

How can you give a higher ceiling to player (Trayce) that has struggled at AA than a player (Danks) that has actually made it to the MLB while admitting you doubt Trayce will ever make it to the major league level? In all honesty it makes no sense.

 

I understand Trayce has good tools, but any tool is useless if a person cannot utilize them.

 

Ceiling isn't based on performance. It is based on what the combination of a player realizing all of his tools to his full potential is. Just because a player has a certain ceiling, doesn't mean he will get there.

[NorthSideSox72]

Not at all, I understand ceilings. I get " if everything goes right". The reality is that not everything is going right. When a young player does well, their projected ceiling goes up based on performance does it not? Then why does Trayce still project such a high ceiling when he continues to struggle two levels below the majors? A player that, for now, has stalled out at AA does not project much ceiling to due the stalled developed... for now.

 

 

Don't take this as my being a smart ass but...

 

How can you give a higher ceiling to player (Trayce) that has struggled at AA than a player (Danks) that has actually made it to the MLB while admitting you doubt Trayce will ever make it to the major league level? In all honesty it makes no sense.

 

I understand Trayce has good tools, but any tool is useless if a person cannot utilize them.

It looks to me like your definition of ceiling is not the same as everyone else here, and for that matter, what the scouting pundits out there call it either.

 

Ceiling is how far a player's actual game skills can reasonably go, if they can make all their tools translate to skills at the highest percentage. For a guy like Trayce, he's got well above average speed, a strong arm, and lots of raw power. His ceiling is a guy who can steal 20-30 bags or more a year, play excellent OF defense, show a serious hose from the OF, and (if playing full time) knock 20+ dingers a year. Even if he can only hit .250, that is a very valuable baseball player. And that is his ceiling.

 

The fact that he's struggled with contact the last couple years at AA (and before then as well) doesn't much change his ceiling - what it does is lower his floor, and also decrease the % chance he reaches his ceiling. His ceiling won't really go down unless/until he's still struggling like this in a couple years (when he reaches 27 years old or so, and is reaching his theoretical physical peak gaming age), or if he has an injury that effects him long-term, or if those raw tools (speed, arm strength, raw power) start to diminish over an extended period. Then, his ceiling has changed.

 

Thompson has similar or slightly better raw power than D2, more speed, and a stronger arm. Both have hit tool and contact issues. D2 has played in the majors where we can evaluate true game skills, and he's shown over time where his game is at. Thompson has a higher ceiling without a doubt, IMO. His floor is slightly lower, though I'd suggest barely so.

 

[LDF]

Not at all, I understand ceilings. I get " if everything goes right". The reality is that not everything is going right. When a young player does well, their projected ceiling goes up based on performance does it not? Then why does Trayce still project such a high ceiling when he continues to struggle two levels below the majors? A player that, for now, has stalled out at AA does not project much ceiling to due the stalled developed... for now.

 

I understand Trayce has good tools, but any tool is useless if a person cannot utilize them.

for starter, if the system is so lacking, it hold the truth not to throw

a 20 lb brick to a drowning person.

 

for lack of other prospects, why change now.

 

however lets look for that needle in the haystack. who was the pitcher

who pitch for the sox, i believe he was 29, was he still considered a

prospect at, what 28? when does a prospect stop being a prospect?

Edited October 13, 2014 by LDF

[ILMOU]

How high of a ceiling can be projected for a player that's struggling to hit his way out of AA? That's why I say, AT THIS POINT, when I refer to his ceiling is lower than Danks floor. Danks has made it to the big league club, something ( at this point) I doubt Trayce will be able to do. I hope I'm wrong.

As NSS has said, the ceiling is based upon the tools, at least until a certain age is reached. The ceiling is not necessarily a realistic outcome at a certain point, and Trayce's multiple repeats of the same level with little if any discernible improvement, have made his potential for reaching it (or anything close to it) rather minute. Still, the skills are there, so the ceiling remains. But sure, the floor is a bit lower than Jordan's because Jordan has had decent success in AAA and a few mlb cups-o-coffee, and there's a good chance Trayce never makes it even that far.

[LDF]

 

isn't ceiling based on a subjective point of view.

 

I hear many classified many prospect with this so called ceiling projection. I

don't know, I find this description lacking.

[BlackSox13]

As NSS has said, the ceiling is based upon the tools, at least until a certain age is reached. The ceiling is not necessarily a realistic outcome at a certain point, and Trayce's multiple repeats of the same level with little if any discernible improvement, have made his potential for reaching it (or anything close to it) rather minute. Still, the skills are there, so the ceiling remains. But sure, the floor is a bit lower than Jordan's because Jordan has had decent success in AAA and a few mlb cups-o-coffee, and there's a good chance Trayce never makes it even that far.

I understand what you all are getting at. IMO, to say a player has a high ceiling, yet likely will not make the majors is an oxymoron.

 

I think I'll just leave it at that.

[caulfield12]

And yet if we offered Walker/Thompson/Mitchell together as a 3 player package, we couldn't even get Maurer from the Mariners back in return.

 

At least for Hawkins, we can still have "reasonable" hopes of him reaching the majors and making an impact.

 

 

[witesoxfan]

I understand what you all are getting at. IMO, to say a player has a high ceiling, yet likely will not make the majors is an oxymoron.

 

I think I'll just leave it at that.

 

I don't think that's an oxymoron at all. Smart Cubs fan is an oxymoron.

 

Look at Courtney Hawkins. He was a first round draft pick and put up similar numbers to Trayce Thompson at similar ages (save the catastrophe that was 2013). Do you believe his ceiling is higher or lower than Trayce's? Why?

[LDF]

I don't think that's an oxymoron at all. Smart Cubs fan is an oxymoron.

 

Look at Courtney Hawkins. He was a first round draft pick and put up similar numbers to Trayce Thompson at similar ages (save the catastrophe that was 2013). Do you believe his ceiling is higher or lower than Trayce's? Why?

 

 

made my week