Revisiting Eaton/Santiago trade

[caulfield12]

http://www.southsidesox.com/2014/10/11/696...-santiago-trade

[LDF]

http://www.southsidesox.com/2014/10/11/696...-santiago-trade

 

nice find. good reading.

 

I have several questions. 1. what kind of problem did Eaton had in the clubhouse?

2. does any one think that he will put a full season without getting hurt?

[LittleHurt05]

nice find. good reading.

 

I have several questions. 1. what kind of problem did Eaton had in the clubhouse?

2. does any one think that he will put a full season without getting hurt?

 

1. This was from the link in the article.

 

It started here:

 

As for Adam Eaton, who is on his way to the Chicago White Sox in the three-team trade, I spoke with a player who told me it's an addition by subtraction. Eaton was a selfish me-me type player, and the clubhouse will be thrilled he is gone. Didn't run out some ground balls, ran through stop signs and had a huge sense of entitlement for a player who was a rookie. A.J. Pollock will be a better fit in center field for Arizona.

 

2. Nope

[Kyyle23]

I cant imagine Eaton jaking it and not running out a ground ball. he must have really hated the coaching staff

[LittleHurt05]

I cant imagine Eaton jaking it and not running out a ground ball. he must have really hated the coaching staff

 

That's what I was thinking. I could see the other issues and the entitlement, he is very confident in himself. But the guys sprints to first after walks, why wouldn't he run out a ground ball?

[southsider2k5]

Some clubhouses that Eaton personality doesn't play well. In clubhouse with a lot of kids, and one that doesn't really have vocal leadership prior to Eaton getting here, he is exacty what was needed. On a veteran team, I can see a guy like that pissing off some vets.

[Kyyle23]

Some clubhouses that Eaton personality doesn't play well. In clubhouse with a lot of kids, and one that doesn't really have vocal leadership prior to Eaton getting here, he is exacty what was needed. On a veteran team, I can see a guy like that pissing off some vets.

 

I get the personality grating on people. But the complaints in that article arent personality driven, they are play driven. that is what i dont like.

 

I guess the longer he is with the Sox we may see some of those things happen, but I have yet to see that guy do anything that upsets the coaching staff, aside from getting injured for playing too hard

[Balta1701]

Some clubhouses that Eaton personality doesn't play well. In clubhouse with a lot of kids, and one that doesn't really have vocal leadership prior to Eaton getting here, he is exacty what was needed. On a veteran team, I can see a guy like that pissing off some vets.

2 points.

 

1. Was Arizona 2013 really a more veteran loaded clubhouse than the 2014 White Sox?

 

2. That statement suggests a "lack of leadership" from the supposed leaders in that clubhouse and I can't help but read it that way.

[southsider2k5]

2 points.

 

1. Was Arizona 2013 really a more veteran loaded clubhouse than the 2014 White Sox?

 

2. That statement suggests a "lack of leadership" from the supposed leaders in that clubhouse and I can't help but read it that way.

 

Leading questions, of course. There are different ways to be a leader. Some do it by example. Some get up on a soapbox. Some do both.

[Balta1701]

Leading questions, of course. There are different ways to be a leader. Some do it by example. Some get up on a soapbox. Some do both.

Actually one of them was genuine, I don't know/remember the roster of the 2013 DBacks.

 

The 2nd one I noted was a leading question. I can't read "the White Sox's roster needed leadership" as anything other than an indictment of the supposed leaders on the roster.

[shysocks]

This trade was a winner from the moment it happened, and I found myself confused that anybody was upset about it. Average starting pitcher for leadoff hitter with on-base skills. We have hindsight to make it look even better, but I always loved it.

 

Can't wait til SSS recaps Reed for Davidson. Nobody's talked much about that one lately.

[GGajewski18]

Huge trade this was. Loved it then, love it now. Eaton is part of the core and now has become a fan favorite.

[Dick Allen]

Santiago has a lot of fans here, but as a starter, he went more than 6 innings 1 time. He is a bullpen killer. If he can't figure out a way to conserve his pitches and go deeper into games, he is a #5 starter at best, and probably belongs in the bullpen.

[ILMOU]

Love the trade - admittedly held out a little too much optimism for Hector - but Eaton will be a south side hero before too long if he can stay on the field.

 

The Davidson trade was really bad, however, and almost makes up for it. Not because we gave up anything special in Reed, but because we got nada for a 40 save closer. RH may need to do better than 50-50 this offeseason.

 

 

 

[GGajewski18]

Love the trade - admittedly held out a little too much optimism for Hector - but Eaton will be a south side hero before too long if he can stay on the field.

 

The Davidson trade was really bad, however, and almost makes up for it. Not because we gave up anything special in Reed, but because we got nada for a 40 save closer. RH may need to do better than 50-50 this offeseason.

 

Ugh, I'm not even going to start....

[witesoxfan]

Ugh, I'm not even going to start....

 

At this point, it's true. The Sox still have Davidson, so we can hold out hope that he improves next year, but there was nothing incorrect about that statement at all.

[GGajewski18]

At this point, it's true. The Sox still have Davidson, so we can hold out hope that he improves next year, but there was nothing incorrect about that statement at all.

 

I understand, the power was still there, if he can manage to hit 250-270 like he has before, still think Davidson has a future with the Sox.

[Dick Allen]

I understand, the power was still there, if he can manage to hit 250-270 like he has before, still think Davidson has a future with the Sox.

He strikes out wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too much. He is a 200 strikeout guy right now, at the major league level.. If he gets 600 AB and fans 200 times that is 400 AB where he hits the ball. Even with a .350 BABIP, he is a .233 hitter, and it's not like he is a 100 walk a year guy, or a 40 home run guy at the moment.

 

They probably keep him because he isn't worth much right now, but IMO, you should take the attitude he is a broken prospect. If he fixes himself to the point where he can be useful, it's a surprise and a bonus.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Dick Allen

[ILMOU]

Ugh, I'm not even going to start....

Assets are limited. Can't afford to torch them. Much is needed to get the team where we want it.

 

But apologies for bringing Davidson into it OT - that one's sticking in my craw.

[witesoxfan]

He strikes out wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too much. He is a 200 strikeout guy right now, at the major league level.. If he gets 600 AB and fans 200 times that is 400 AB where he hits the ball. Even with a .350 BABIP, he is a .233 hitter, and it's not like he is a 100 walk a year guy, or a 40 home run guy at the moment.

 

This is a really good post and outlines the general concerns with Davidson extremely well right now, but I think it's a little off.

 

We'll say in 600 plate appearances, he strikes out 200 times, walks 55 times (9.5% or so, which is his career rate), and 20 homers. We're also going to make a few more assumptions - no sac flies, no HBP, 25 doubles, and no triples.

 

With a .350 BABIP - which is still incredibly high, which is what you were getting at to begin with - his triple slash is .246/.315/.411/.726. That's a little above league average overall for 3B - .259/.318/.397/.715 - but is still not good. And remember, that's with a .350 BABIP which is incredibly high.

 

There are a lot of flaws in Davidson's game and a lot of it is corrected if he makes better contact, but that's a whole lot easier said than done.

[LDF]

the sox have the right kind of leadership last yr and even more

now. i really mean the right kind with quality people. i remember

after the royce clayton adventure, so one in the sox brass mention

that they will not be wasting their time on so-called problem players

like belle.

 

this was in the .... i can't remember but it was for season ticket holders

and sox brass.

[LDF]

Leading questions, of course. There are different ways to be a leader. Some do it by example. Some get up on a soapbox. Some do both.

 

excellent point of view.

 

i am also going to use this link to say....

 

this was a great trade. the kind of player that JR loves.

 

but with that, i can't help to be nosy about the so-called problems.

[Balta1701]

This is a really good post and outlines the general concerns with Davidson extremely well right now, but I think it's a little off.

 

We'll say in 600 plate appearances, he strikes out 200 times, walks 55 times (9.5% or so, which is his career rate), and 20 homers. We're also going to make a few more assumptions - no sac flies, no HBP, 25 doubles, and no triples.

 

With a .350 BABIP - which is still incredibly high, which is what you were getting at to begin with - his triple slash is .246/.315/.411/.726. That's a little above league average overall for 3B - .259/.318/.397/.715 - but is still not good. And remember, that's with a .350 BABIP which is incredibly high.

 

There are a lot of flaws in Davidson's game and a lot of it is corrected if he makes better contact, but that's a whole lot easier said than done.

Worth pointing out in addition is that Davidson's K rate in 2014 was well above his K rate for 2012-2013 and really every year of his minor league career beforehand.

 

Last year he struck out in >30% of his plate appearances. As a 21 year old in AA he only struck out in 21.9% of his plate appearances. His K rate last year was one and a half times what it was a couple years ago when he was still in a fairly advanced minor league level.

[witesoxfan]

Worth pointing out in addition is that Davidson's K rate in 2014 was well above his K rate for 2012-2013 and really every year of his minor league career beforehand.

 

Last year he struck out in >30% of his plate appearances. As a 21 year old in AA he only struck out in 21.9% of his plate appearances. His K rate last year was one and a half times what it was a couple years ago when he was still in a fairly advanced minor league level.

 

That's fine, but I don't think it's unrealistic to think that even if his K rate improves to 25% next year or even 20% at the AAA level that it's outlandish to think he could be in the 27-32% area at the MLB level. Guys will strike out more in the majors because the pitchers are much, much better.

 

Improving his contact ability should be priority #1 and once you get to that point, you can hope that his power improves beyond what it already is.

 

You can't give up on him at this point, but it's hard to count on him at this point too.

[Balta1701]

That's fine, but I don't think it's unrealistic to think that even if his K rate improves to 25% next year or even 20% at the AAA level that it's outlandish to think he could be in the 27-32% area at the MLB level. Guys will strike out more in the majors because the pitchers are much, much better.

 

Improving his contact ability should be priority #1 and once you get to that point, you can hope that his power improves beyond what it already is.

 

You can't give up on him at this point, but it's hard to count on him at this point too.

Pointing that out went more along the "you can't give up on him at this point" lines.