Revisiting Eaton/Santiago trade

[Dick Allen]

This is a really good post and outlines the general concerns with Davidson extremely well right now, but I think it's a little off.

 

We'll say in 600 plate appearances, he strikes out 200 times, walks 55 times (9.5% or so, which is his career rate), and 20 homers. We're also going to make a few more assumptions - no sac flies, no HBP, 25 doubles, and no triples.

 

With a .350 BABIP - which is still incredibly high, which is what you were getting at to begin with - his triple slash is .246/.315/.411/.726. That's a little above league average overall for 3B - .259/.318/.397/.715 - but is still not good. And remember, that's with a .350 BABIP which is incredibly high.

 

There are a lot of flaws in Davidson's game and a lot of it is corrected if he makes better contact, but that's a whole lot easier said than done.

I think your math is a little off. If he has 600 plate appearances and 55 walks and nothing else, he has 545 AB. Subtract 200 strikeouts. 345 x .350=121. 121/545=.222 and 121+55/600=.293, and the slugging would be 25 x2= 50 + 20 x 4=80 + 76 singles =206/545=.378

 

.222/.293/.671.

[witesoxfan]

I think your math is a little off. If he has 600 plate appearances and 55 walks and nothing else, he has 545 AB. Subtract 200 strikeouts. 345 x .350=121. 121/545=.222 and 121+55/600=.293, and the slugging would be 25 x2= 50 + 20 x 4=80 + 76 singles =206/545=.378

 

.222/.293/.671.

 

20 home runs too, which do count as hits but are not a ball in play. 325 x .350 = 113.75, which I rounded up to 114 plus 20 home runs, which is 134 hits.

[Dick Allen]

20 home runs too, which do count as hits but are not a ball in play. 325 x .350 = 113.75, which I rounded up to 114 plus 20 home runs, which is 134 hits.

Home Runs don't count as a ball in play? That's a new one to me. I never knew that. What if it is an inside the park?

Edited October 13, 2014 by Dick Allen

[witesoxfan]

Home Runs don't count as a ball in play? That's a new one to me. I never knew that. What if it is an inside the park?

 

They will count an inside the park homer the same as they do a regular home run, which isn't necessarily fair and could or should be something they account for in the future, but the difference is usually so small that it rarely makes a difference. I honestly can't remember any player ever hitting 2 inside the park home runs in a season.

[Dick Allen]

They will count an inside the park homer the same as they do a regular home run, which isn't necessarily fair and could or should be something they account for in the future, but the difference is usually so small that it rarely makes a difference. I honestly can't remember any player ever hitting 2 inside the park home runs in a season.

Dick Allen once hit 2 in one game for the White Sox.

[witesoxfan]

Dick Allen once hit 2 in one game for the White Sox.

 

No need to talk about yourself in the 3rd person like that.

 

I do agree that it'd be nice if they separated them both for pitchers and hitters, because even with so few, it's still a more accurate portrayal to indicate that an inside the park home run is 100% a ball in play.

[southsider2k5]

So away from another Davidson thread disaster and back to Eaton/Santiago?

[caulfield12]

Maybe a permanent pinned Davidson/Reed thread at the top to go along with anything about Ozzie Guillen/2005 team.

 

Half kidding.

[IlliniKrush]

3 pages in and no BW post about Santiago?

[venom4789]

Maybe Eaton needed a change of scenery, maybe someone talked to him once he was traded, or maybe his ego was bruised by being traded and he is going to do everything possible to make them realize they shouldnt have traded him. I havent looked at his tapes from when he was with them, but when teammates make comments like that you do take them with a grain of salt, but there is at least a little truth behind it.

 

Luckily for us he seems to be fitting in well here and i havent seen him take a play off at all.

[LDF]

Maybe Eaton needed a change of scenery, maybe someone talked to him once he was traded, or maybe his ego was bruised by being traded and he is going to do everything possible to make them realize they shouldnt have traded him. I havent looked at his tapes from when he was with them, but when teammates make comments like that you do take them with a grain of salt, but there is at least a little truth behind it.

 

Luckily for us he seems to be fitting in well here and i havent seen him take a play off at all.

 

also lets look at the leadership the sox had last yr. Paulie, Alexei, the emergence of Jose A

and I am sure some of the pitchers would seem to have that leadership mentality.

[Kyyle23]

Maybe Eaton needed a change of scenery, maybe someone talked to him once he was traded, or maybe his ego was bruised by being traded and he is going to do everything possible to make them realize they shouldnt have traded him. I havent looked at his tapes from when he was with them, but when teammates make comments like that you do take them with a grain of salt, but there is at least a little truth behind it.

 

Luckily for us he seems to be fitting in well here and i havent seen him take a play off at all.

 

Pretty sure all of the comments about Eaton were unattributed

[Dick Allen]

Pretty sure all of the comments about Eaton were unattributed

 

Yes. Usually those types are laughable, and even if they had merit, Eaton wouldn't be the first guy who grew up. Who cares what someone thought, the D Backs blew it by giving him up.

[witesoxfan]

It's amazing the smear campaigns you see upon players leaving an organization. The Sox used to be notorious for doing that type of thing, but they've gotten much better about it in recent years.

[Buehrle>Wood]

3 pages in and no BW post about Santiago?

I'm here I'm here. Santiago was pretty dominant after being recalled and was a major part in the Angels ability to take over the A's. Overall the year was a step back for him but he still has left a big whole in our pitching staff. Hopefully we won'thave to spend much to replace him. I'm rooting for him and he should bounce back to his 2013 levels next year. My worry is still the same, that he's been jerked around so often that it's stunted his development but we'll see.

 

[Dick Allen]

I'm here I'm here. Santiago was pretty dominant after being recalled and was a major part in the Angels ability to take over the A's. Overall the year was a step back for him but he still has left a big whole in our pitching staff. Hopefully we won'thave to spend much to replace him. I'm rooting for him and he should bounce back to his 2013 levels next year. My worry is still the same, that he's been jerked around so often that it's stunted his development but we'll see.

Yeah, his average of less than 5 innings a start, escecially considering the White Sox bullpen, really left a hole in the staff.

[shysocks]

I'm here I'm here. Santiago was pretty dominant after being recalled and was a major part in the Angels ability to take over the A's. Overall the year was a step back for him but he still has left a big whole in our pitching staff. Hopefully we won'thave to spend much to replace him. I'm rooting for him and he should bounce back to his 2013 levels next year. My worry is still the same, that he's been jerked around so often that it's stunted his development but we'll see.

Dominant is a bit strong. 3.30 ERA with 77 K's and 35 walks in 90 innings after the demotion. Also, look at his game log - in none of those 17 starts did he pitch into the 7th inning. He generally lasted about 5. He had four quality starts. He was okay but a pitcher like him doesn't fit well on a team with a bullpen like the 2014 Sox.

[witesoxfan]

He also averaged 84.5 pitches per start. As Dick pointed out, he averaged less than 5 innings a start (117.2 IP in 24 GS comes out to 4.9 IP per start, so somewhere between 4.2 and 5 IP per start). That's an average of 17+ pitches per inning.

 

I'm not saying Hector Santiago is a bad pitcher - he is inefficient, but he's not bad. I will say I'm glad the White Sox have Adam Eaton instead of Hector Santiago.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Yeah, his average of less than 5 innings a start, escecially considering the White Sox bullpen, really left a hole in the staff.

His war would have 5th on the staff at the cost of nothing. It's a hole.

 

Dominant is a bit strong. 3.30 ERA with 77 K's and 35 walks in 90 innings after the demotion. Also, look at his game log - in none of those 17 starts did he pitch into the 7th inning. He generally lasted about 5. He had four quality starts. He was okay but a pitcher like him doesn't fit well on a team with a bullpen like the 2014 Sox.

Ah true. Haven't checked on him in awhile. He was dominant in June, July and August going 4-1 with a 2.45 era, a whip of 1.08 and a k rate in the high 8s. Struggled again in September

Edited October 14, 2014 by Buehrle>Wood

[witesoxfan]

His war would have 5th on the staff at the cost of nothing. It's a hole.

 

That's besides the point. The Sox are a better team with Adam Eaton than they are Hector Santiago.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Let's hope so.

[Dick Allen]

His war would have 5th on the staff at the cost of nothing. It's a hole.

 

 

Ah true. Haven't checked on him in awhile. He was dominant in June, July and August going 4-1 with a 2.45 era, a whip of 1.08 and a k rate in the high 8s. Struggled again in September

This is one area advanced metrics is lacking. When a guy goes 5 innings, even if he is spectacular, he taxes your bullpen, and it does eventually have an effect in other games that cannot be easily measured.

 

That is why, innings eaters, IMO, are worth more a lot of the time than their advanced numbers indicate.

 

When Santiago starts, your bullpen, except for one outing, had to get a minimum 9 outs.

[cabiness42]

This is one area advanced metrics is lacking. When a guy goes 5 innings, even if he is spectacular, he taxes your bullpen, and it does eventually have an effect in other games that cannot be easily measured.

 

That is why, innings eaters, IMO, are worth more a lot of the time than their advanced numbers indicate.

 

When Santiago starts, your bullpen, except for one outing, had to get a minimum 9 outs.

 

Well, WAR for pitchers is innings-dependent, so that value will be reflected. It's why Chris Sale didn't have the highest WAR in the AL despite being the best by nearly every advanced metric.

[Eminor3rd]

This was an unquestionably awesome trade then and still is now. There were many, many question marks with him and many, many reasons to believe he wouldn't repeat his 2013 performance, sabermetrically and otherwise. Excellent example of take a risk on a giving a bunch of innings to a talented arm and selling high.

[southsider2k5]

He also averaged 84.5 pitches per start. As Dick pointed out, he averaged less than 5 innings a start (117.2 IP in 24 GS comes out to 4.9 IP per start, so somewhere between 4.2 and 5 IP per start). That's an average of 17+ pitches per inning.

 

I'm not saying Hector Santiago is a bad pitcher - he is inefficient, but he's not bad. I will say I'm glad the White Sox have Adam Eaton instead of Hector Santiago.

 

Which is at the top of the pet peeve lists for one Donald Cooper.