southsider2k5 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/10/al-c...medium=facebook Left-handed power will be a priority for the White Sox this winter, writes Bruce Levine of 670thescore.com. Levine runs down a list of potential targets for the ChiSox, headlined by Victor Martinez but also including Melky Cabrera, Adam LaRoche and Pablo Sandoval. LaRoche is a bit of a reach to me given the presence of Jose Abreu and LaRoche’s reputation as a solid defensive first baseman. Levine notes that he spoke to a Tigers source that indicated the team would do “whatever it could” to bring back Martinez for 2015 and beyond — and that’s not the first time a reporter has gotten that vibe from Detroit; ESPN’s Buster Olney heard something similar earlier in the month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear_brian Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I continue to think that Melky Cabrera makes the most sense for the Sox. I cannot believe Toronto, with an estimated 2015 payroll of almost $ 150M without Melky, is going to make a $15.3M qualifying offer for him. Melky is only 30, is a switch hitter, would absolutely thrive hitting in front of Abreu, would offer more speed and defense than Viciedo, and has already paid the price for using PED's. I see him as an optimum addition for us, and think a $12 to $13M per year contract could land him. He would upgrade our lineup and allow us to consider a short-term deal for a DH, Kendry Morales being my own sleeper choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) If the sox purposely acquire an admitted steroid user via a large free agency contract, I'll probably not watch baseball anymore. Its one thing to take on prospects who are struggling to make the bigs. Its another entirely to recruit and reward a known cheater via huge contract. Edited October 13, 2014 by MAX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) How has Melky paid for what he did? A suspension? Whoopee. The only reason he admitted it was he was caught trying to cover it up, hilariously. I dont obsessively care about him outside of the sox, but I do not want to be put in a position where I'd be rooting against the white sox. So I would probably just not. Edited October 13, 2014 by MAX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 QUOTE (bear_brian @ Oct 13, 2014 -> 06:31 PM) I continue to think that Melky Cabrera makes the most sense for the Sox. I cannot believe Toronto, with an estimated 2015 payroll of almost $ 150M without Melky, is going to make a $15.3M qualifying offer for him. Melky is only 30, is a switch hitter, would absolutely thrive hitting in front of Abreu, would offer more speed and defense than Viciedo, and has already paid the price for using PED's. I see him as an optimum addition for us, and think a $12 to $13M per year contract could land him. He would upgrade our lineup and allow us to consider a short-term deal for a DH, Kendry Morales being my own sleeper choice. I would take Cabrera in a heartbeat! He would solve the LF issue for the next 3-5 years and I agree that he would hit well in front of Abreu. I do think it will take more than 12-13M annually to get him. Even if Toronto elects not to offer the QO its probably likely he will get about 15M annually because there will be plenty of teams bidding on him thus driving up the price a bit. No matter, I would take the chance regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Sandoval would be an intriguing signing. I like Melky but that suspension freaks me out.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 It's 2 years post steroids bust and Melky is still hitting. I'm fine if the Sox sign him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 QUOTE (scs787 @ Oct 13, 2014 -> 09:05 PM) It's 2 years post steroids bust and Melky is still hitting. I'm fine if the Sox sign him. The half season .682 OPS Cabrera put up in 2013 doesn't scream "Still hitting". At best its inconsistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 13, 2014 -> 08:19 PM) The half season .682 OPS Cabrera put up in 2013 doesn't scream "Still hitting". At best its inconsistent. Fair enough, I was looking at this years numbers when saying that. I'd still be fine, notice how I've said fine in both posts, with the Sox signing him. I say fine because he's not my top choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 If the team isn't actually going after Vic Martinez, Adam Laroche would make some sense. He'll be cheaper in $$ and probably years, and will not receive a qualifying offer so won't cost a draft pick. There's relatively few likely landing spots for him, with Milwaukee probably being the most likely, and perhaps Detroit if they lose Martinez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I never gave LaRoche much thought but he could be a good fit for the Sox. I'm not against the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickofypres Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Over the past three seasons, LaRoche put up a slash line of .256/346/458 (804) 118 OPS/119 wRC+. LaRoche is good for like 25ish home runs a year. He would make a decent DH, back up 1B (over the past three years he has been above average at first. LaRoche also bats lefty. As long as he isn't wanting a huge payday, I would love him on here for the right price for 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 QUOTE (MAX @ Oct 13, 2014 -> 06:45 PM) If the sox purposely acquire an admitted steroid user via a large free agency contract, I'll probably not watch baseball anymore. Its one thing to take on prospects who are struggling to make the bigs. Its another entirely to recruit and reward a known cheater via huge contract. Haha you might as well stop watching sports then. Sports are littered with bad guys. The 2005 White Sox had steroid users on the team and nobody really cared. If you could guarantee me that Melky would come here and solidify the lineup, I don't really care what means he takes to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 14, 2014 -> 10:24 AM) Haha you might as well stop watching sports then. Sports are littered with bad guys. The 2005 White Sox had steroid users on the team and nobody really cared. If you could guarantee me that Melky would come here and solidify the lineup, I don't really care what means he takes to do that. Are we really sure about that? I know Ozuna got suspended but he also had an incredible 2006 that made me guess "maybe he started between 05/06". And yeah, people have whispered about other guys like Rowand but they never even made official lists. Was there anyone else? If nothing else, with the Red Sox winning in 04 behind Manroid and Ortiz, and testing having just started ramping up, the 05 white sox were probably the cleanest champs since maybe the early 1990s, maybe earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 QUOTE (MAX @ Oct 13, 2014 -> 06:53 PM) How has Melky paid for what he did? A suspension? Whoopee. The only reason he admitted it was he was caught trying to cover it up, hilariously. I dont obsessively care about him outside of the sox, but I do not want to be put in a position where I'd be rooting against the white sox. So I would probably just not. Come on man, he didn't kill anyone. A lengthy, unpaid suspension that ultimately cost him literally millions of free agent dollars by putting his expected performance in doubt seems pretty reasonable to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 14, 2014 -> 09:29 AM) Are we really sure about that? I know Ozuna got suspended but he also had an incredible 2006 that made me guess "maybe he started between 05/06". And yeah, people have whispered about other guys like Rowand but they never even made official lists. Was there anyone else? If nothing else, with the Red Sox winning in 04 behind Manroid and Ortiz, and testing having just started ramping up, the 05 white sox were probably the cleanest champs since maybe the early 1990s, maybe earlier. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 14, 2014 -> 10:38 AM) If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... "Big guys who play some baseball and have up and down careers" isn't a hard sell there. Rowand had even better seasons than 2004 well after they started testing. I just never found the body type case all that convincing, it always seems like people are stunned by the guys who test positive and then afterwards say they recognized the body type, not beforehand, with the notable exception of Giambi and the THG crew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysocks Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 You can speculate on who was clean but there's no type to identify. Ryan Braun and Roger Clemens cheated. So did Alex Sanchez and Guillermo Mota. The 2005 Sox probably had some users; I bet every team still does. Trying to worry too much about it will just drive you crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 14, 2014 -> 09:43 AM) "Big guys who play some baseball and have up and down careers" isn't a hard sell there. Rowand had even better seasons than 2004 well after they started testing. I just never found the body type case all that convincing, it always seems like people are stunned by the guys who test positive and then afterwards say they recognized the body type, not beforehand, with the notable exception of Giambi and the THG crew. He had one good season after 2004, that's it, then he completely fell off the map offensively. We will never know the truth, but I can't give the benefit of the doubt to anybody from that era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 14, 2014 -> 09:51 AM) He had one good season after 2004, that's it, then he completely fell off the map offensively. We will never know the truth, but I can't give the benefit of the doubt to anybody from that era. He had a great year in 2007 too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 14, 2014 -> 09:56 AM) He had a great year in 2007 too. That was the one good year after 2004. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (shysocks @ Oct 14, 2014 -> 09:47 AM) You can speculate on who was clean but there's no type to identify. Ryan Braun and Roger Clemens cheated. So did Alex Sanchez and Guillermo Mota. The 2005 Sox probably had some users; I bet every team still does. Trying to worry too much about it will just drive you crazy. I can guarantee you the 05 Sox had multiple users. I couldn't tell you who but there's no chance they were clean because no team was. Edited October 14, 2014 by Rowand44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 14, 2014 -> 09:58 AM) That was the one good year after 2004. Comprehension is a skill I do not possess. He was also a great player in 2005. Less so offensively but he really was a defensive beast out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 14, 2014 -> 10:51 AM) He had one good season after 2004, that's it, then he completely fell off the map offensively. We will never know the truth, but I can't give the benefit of the doubt to anybody from that era. If we look at him in the fan graphs world, he had a 5 WAR season in 2004, a 4 WAR season in 2005 (wow, he was a more valuable player than I thought), a 1.7 WAR season in 2006 after breaking his face in Philly, and a 5.7 WAR season in 2007. He had a solid 3 year run in there, with an injury-issue 4th season, went to San Fran, and totally fell apart there after getting a contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 14, 2014 -> 09:29 AM) Are we really sure about that? I know Ozuna got suspended but he also had an incredible 2006 that made me guess "maybe he started between 05/06". And yeah, people have whispered about other guys like Rowand but they never even made official lists. Was there anyone else? If nothing else, with the Red Sox winning in 04 behind Manroid and Ortiz, and testing having just started ramping up, the 05 white sox were probably the cleanest champs since maybe the early 1990s, maybe earlier. For my two cents, all I have to do is look at the baseball-wide explosion in offense as PEDS came into the game and a collapse in offense after the much higher testing levels, to know that there is a very high chance that the removal of drugs from baseball has had a profound change in the game. Seeing as the White Sox didn't lag the rest of baseball in offense, the odds are pretty good there were multiple users on the 2005 team. Odds are pretty good we will never know names, but I would say statistically it is a virtual certainty that we had some cornerstone of that team on PEDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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