Free Agents

[Balta1701]

Maybe, it would depend on a lot of factors. No matter what I would wait until after Super 2. I would try to avoid a bullpen assignment.

 

If we're assuming the rotation on Opening Day is Sale/Q/Free Agent/Danks/Noesi and all five of those guys are pitching well and we're contending, why would we even need Rodon? Leaving him in the minors wouldn't be the end of the world. There is also reason to think that - maybe - Rodon won't excel in the majors right away and that we wouldn't be missing out.

 

I'll sum up my thoughts like this: Danks and Noesi both pitching well, AND the Sox being contenders in June, AND Rodon absolutely kicking down the door to MLB - the likelihood of all those things happening is low enough that it wouldn't enter my thought process when deciding whether to bring in starting pitching help.

 

 

BS. This is a guy they consider a cornerstone of their future. This isn't Andre Reinzo having a couple of good months in AAA.

 

They didn't pay him the bonus they paid him and drafted him with the highest pick they have had since Harold Baines so he can wait for Hector Noesi to blow up. Besides, someone will get hurt or be bad. That is just the nature of the game, and if somehow that didn't happen, there will be nothing to complain about because the White Sox will be rolling.

And here's a good illustration of why I keep bringing it up. Two people both admit its a possibility, but hope that it isn't the case, and come to exactly the opposite conclusion if it does happen.

[Dick Allen]

And here's a good illustration of why I keep bringing it up. Two people both admit its a possibility, but hope that it isn't the case, and come to exactly the opposite conclusion if it does happen.

I say there is a chance, but more like Lloyd Christmas and 1 in a million.

 

The next time the White Sox have too many starting pitchers will be the first. Just consider that for a moment.

[shysocks]

And here's a good illustration of why I keep bringing it up. Two people both admit its a possibility, but hope that it isn't the case, and come to exactly the opposite conclusion if it does happen.

I read it that we came to fairly similar conclusions - that if Rodon needs to come up there will probably be room for him, and if there isn't we're just fine anyway.

[Balta1701]

I read it that we came to fairly similar conclusions - that if Rodon needs to come up there will probably be room for him, and if there isn't we're just fine anyway.

You said leaving him in the minors wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, and DA says that he's a top prospect and you're not leaving him in the minors no matter what.

 

There's my problem. IMO, you plan for this scenario when you're deciding who to bring in. I don't object to bringing in rotation help, but someone on a short term deal that you might even be willing to move to the bullpen or trade would be absolutely ideal because no matter how that person does you have the ability to clear them out of the way.

 

Hence why I can get the case for someone like "Just shut your mouth and pitch for once" Peavy or Masterson as opposed to any of the big money guys. Short term deal, can move them out of the way or even do a bullpen stint if it comes to that.

[Dick Allen]

You said leaving him in the minors wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, and DA says that he's a top prospect and you're not leaving him in the minors no matter what.

 

There's my problem. IMO, you plan for this scenario when you're deciding who to bring in. I don't object to bringing in rotation help, but someone on a short term deal that you might even be willing to move to the bullpen or trade would be absolutely ideal because no matter how that person does you have the ability to clear them out of the way.

 

Hence why I can get the case for someone like "Just shut your mouth and pitch for once" Peavy or Masterson as opposed to any of the big money guys. Short term deal, can move them out of the way or even do a bullpen stint if it comes to that.

You aren't leaving him in the minors if he is dominating AAA.

[Balta1701]

You aren't leaving him in the minors if he is dominating AAA.

And you're not breaking up the rotation if the team is near 1st place, and you're not taking the big money guys out of the rotation. Something's gotta give. Conveniently, there's a way to make this work if we target the right type of guy in FA.

[witesoxfan]

And you're not breaking up the rotation if the team is near 1st place

 

I will disagree with this, especially if he appears to be an upgrade on any given pitcher.

 

and you're not taking the big money guys out of the rotation.

 

And this is flawed thinking. If Sale, Quintana, Noesi, and RHFA are pitching very well, and Danks (who, for this exercise, I am assuming is with the team and in the rotation) is pitching poorly, and Rodon represents a significant upgrade to the point where it could mean a division crown and golfing, why wouldn't you make that upgrade?

 

[Dick Allen]

And you're not breaking up the rotation if the team is near 1st place, and you're not taking the big money guys out of the rotation. Something's gotta give. Conveniently, there's a way to make this work if we target the right type of guy in FA.

They are signing a back of the rotation starter. There is also a pretty good chance someone gets injured. There is also a pretty good chance Hector Noesi isn't competing for a Cy Young award next year, and/or some other starter just sucks.

 

The White Sox rotation is not exactly stacked. Rodon, if he pitches well in AAA, if he even pitches in AAA, will be in the rotation.

 

This notion that even if he is dominating in AAA, he could be "blocked", is beyond laughable.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

They are signing a back of the rotation starter. There is also a pretty good chance someone gets injured. There is also a pretty good chance Hector Noesi isn't competing for a Cy Young award next year, and/or some other starter just sucks.

 

The White Sox rotation is not exactly stacked. Rodon, if he pitches well in AAA, if he even pitches in AAA, will be in the rotation.

All I am saying is that this is fine and that should be the target level.

[Dick Allen]

All I am saying is that this is fine and that should be the target level.

That is the target level. Everything from the White Sox indicates that. Even if they wind up signing someone better, there still will be a place for Rodon.

[striker]

The only person I'd consider for more than 2 years is Headley. The rest are on the wrong side of 30 or aren't anything special. Martin projects more like a 2 WAR player, which is what Tyler Flowers is. I'd try to find a right handed starter that you can either extend (trade market) or a 1/2 year stop gap via free agency (Peavy, McCarthy, etc). I'd prefer financial flexibility over a free agent gamble. As the Yankees have proven year over year, buying players doesn't translate to winning. They went nuts last year and didn't even make the playoffs.

[harfman77]

The only person I'd consider for more than 2 years is Headley. The rest are on the wrong side of 30 or aren't anything special. Martin projects more like a 2 WAR player, which is what Tyler Flowers is. I'd try to find a right handed starter that you can either extend (trade market) or a 1/2 year stop gap via free agency (Peavy, McCarthy, etc). I'd prefer financial flexibility over a free agent gamble. As the Yankees have proven year over year, buying players doesn't translate to winning. They went nuts last year and didn't even make the playoffs.

 

Before this season I would have agreed on Headley, this year I would go 1+1 to limit your risk given his marked drop in production.

[Y2Jimmy0]

The only person I'd consider for more than 2 years is Headley. The rest are on the wrong side of 30 or aren't anything special. Martin projects more like a 2 WAR player, which is what Tyler Flowers is. I'd try to find a right handed starter that you can either extend (trade market) or a 1/2 year stop gap via free agency (Peavy, McCarthy, etc). I'd prefer financial flexibility over a free agent gamble. As the Yankees have proven year over year, buying players doesn't translate to winning. They went nuts last year and didn't even make the playoffs.

 

 

Jon Heyman tweeted that Pittsburgh will give Martin a QO. That's somewhat surprising.

[witesoxfan]

Jon Heyman tweeted that Pittsburgh will give Martin a QO. That's somewhat surprising.

 

I actually don't think it is at all. They're still going to try and re-sign him, but if they can't, he will get a lucrative multi-year deal elsewhere. This isn't quite the AJ Burnett situation from last year where they were unsure if he'd sign elsewhere and they didn't want to be on the hook for $14 mill if he chose to sign with them.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I actually don't think it is at all. They're still going to try and re-sign him, but if they can't, he will get a lucrative multi-year deal elsewhere. This isn't quite the AJ Burnett situation from last year where they were unsure if he'd sign elsewhere and they didn't want to be on the hook for $14 mill if he chose to sign with them.

 

Yeah you are probably right. I just thought they'd be afraid of having to pay the $15.3 million if they had to. I think this takes the White Sox out of the Russell Martin derby if they were even in though.

 

[Balta1701]

Yeah you are probably right. I just thought they'd be afraid of having to pay the $15.3 million if they had to. I think this takes the White Sox out of the Russell Martin derby if they were even in though.

I think Pittsburgh would tolerate him on a 1 year deal for that money. They're packing this ballpark, there revenue is solid, they can afford to go higher if its the right position.

[Chicago White Sox]

And you're not breaking up the rotation if the team is near 1st place, and you're not taking the big money guys out of the rotation. Something's gotta give. Conveniently, there's a way to make this work if we target the right type of guy in FA.

Dude, your over-valuing of Hector Noesi is incredible. He may be a solid #5 starter, but he's more than expendable if Rodon is as good as expected. We're talking about one of the best minor league pitching prospects in baseball. Hahn will find a spot for him if it makes the team better. A guy like Noesi should have no impact on the decision unless he flat-out exceeds expectations, which very unlikely IMO.

[Chicago White Sox]

All I am saying is that this is fine and that should be the target level.

Why in the world should that be the target level? We should looking to add the best RHP that we can afford within reason. A back-end starter may be the only option that ultimately makes sense, but limiting ourselves to a #4 caliber starter for whatever reason you're coming up (too much pitching depth?...lol) is absolutely stupid way to approach this offseason. Our goal should be to add as much talent as possible, not worrying about who goes 2 to 3 months into the season if Rodon is as good as advertised.

[southsider2k5]

Dude, your over-valuing of Hector Noesi is incredible. He may be a solid #5 starter, but he's more than expendable if Rodon is as good as expected. We're talking about one of the best minor league pitching prospects in baseball. Hahn will find a spot for him if it makes the team better. A guy like Noesi should have no impact on the decision unless he flat-out exceeds expectations, which very unlikely IMO.

 

If on July 1 Hector Noesi is still pitching like a 4 starter, there will be a market for him. I'm not worried about it.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Have we talked about Nick Markakis having his $17.5M option declined yet? He will be a free agent, and could be a fit for us in LF if we want to move Viciedo to DH, or to Seattle.

 

I'm actually very surprised by how bad Markakis' defense is as told by advanced metrics. I guess I never noticed him being that bad, but he's been NEARLY Viciedo bad over his career.

 

But offensively, he is a pretty solid player who usually hits in the .290s, he walks a decent amount (usually around 9%), and doesn't strike out much at all (usually around 11%).

 

I think he'd see both his offense and his defense increase playing half his games at US Cellular, both a better hitters park and an easier park to defend in the OF.

 

He was a 2.5 WAR last year, a 0.0 WAR the year before that, and has peaked at a 6.1 WAR when he was like 24 years old and hit .306 w/ 20 HR, .406 OBP, and positive defense.

 

He will be 31 next month.

 

 

Would anyone be willing to go 3 yrs/$33-36M?

[southsider2k5]

I'd be willing to put a nice offer out for Markakis. If we can't find a lefty 30 homer bat for the OF, he is the next best thing.

[Chisoxfn]

I'd be willing to put a nice offer out for Markakis. If we can't find a lefty 30 homer bat for the OF, he is the next best thing.

I would agree. Would be nice if he was a better defender. Given his tools, its hard to understand why he isn't.

[witesoxfan]

Markakis isn't a bad fielder. His range is starting to decline a little bit, but he's steady out in RF. He is a guy I'd be on board with bringing in. Somewhere in the neighborhood of $13-15 mill a year for 3-4 years.

[BlackSox13]

From mlbtraderumors regarding Markakis.....

 

"Assuming there’s no QO in play, I’m projecting a four-year, $48MM contract in a weak market for hitters."

 

So the same speculated contract for both Markakis and Headley. Come on Hahn, let's make it happen.

[Eminor3rd]

Thing about Markakis: I legitimately don't think we know if his defense is elite or noticeably below average. There's a MAJOR disconnect between his reputation and the advanced stats. He's been CONSISTENTLY below average by 5 or more runs for five of the last six years by UZR, which is more than enough of a sample.

 

I tend to feel like reputations die slowly, so I think I side with the defensive metrics in this case. Having obviously not seen nearly enough of him to have an opinion of my own.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Eminor3rd