Free Agents

[LDF]

He had some "issues" with a former manager and his dad kinda seems like an idiot, but I don't think he's a bad guy. I don't believe he had any problems at all in Toronto. He was a young kid that butted heads with an old coach, worse things have happened. I really don't think Colby Rasmus is the type of person you have to keep away from your clubhouse. Obviously you'd rather not have that blip on the radar, but I'm sure Hahn, KW, and even Robin could make a few phone calls and get the scoop on whether Rasmus is worth having around attitude wise or not....as long as they don't call LaRussa lol

 

exactly and his father is his personal hitting coach. this was up to last yr. don't know

if anything has change since the season ended.

[shysocks]

That's not using any advanced offensive stats. De Aza's had 200 fewer plate appearances and they have both hit 51 doubles, De Aza has 11 more triples and one more home run. Markakis has hit for a higher average. I would suggest that the reason a Sox fan would have the perception that "there is no way those two are in the same stratosphere offensively or defensively" is precisely because he/she doesn't watch Markakis on a daily basis and doesn't care/has is not emotionally affected by what he does well or not so well while every De Aza miscue is the end of the world.

 

If you told the average Sox fan Markakis had 200 more plate appearances than De Aza over the last 2 years and asked which you thought had more extra base hits, somewhere around 100% would say Markakis. Their reasoning would be "not De Aza."

 

More years distorts the comparison? When you are offering a player a multi year contract, how much of their recent performance should you consider? Exactly one season? How about half a season, that way it's not distorted by being a full season?

What I'd say in defense of Markakis is that De Aza, despite the hot finish this year, seems to be steadily trending downwards, whereas Markakis' bad 2013 could be viewed as just a blip on the radar. Also, comparisons based on OPS/XBH will often favor the player at US Cellular. Also, his OBP is consistently better. But your point is well taken - he's not a much different player than De Aza and I bet the organization feels it wouldn't be the right use of resources.

 

As for the Rasmus subject, in my opinion his contract has a high chance of becoming a nuisance to whichever team signs it.

[Eminor3rd]

Some times I really hate advanced stats, because there is no way those two are in the same stratosphere offensively or defensively. Though those numbers are distorted by going two years instead of one.

 

I don't know about defense, but Markakis is projected to be worse by advanced defense at least. I think it's at least worth considering that because of the nature of De Aza's mistakes, we all have the perception that he's much worse than he really is.

 

Offensively though,VL has a great point. Steamer has Markakis projected for 109 wRC+ and De Aza projected for 106 wRC+. Going to a three year sample (because 2012 was ADA's first full season with us), you have this:

 

Markakis

2012: 126

2013: 88

2014: 106

 

De Aza

2012: 106

2013: 98

2014: 94

 

I don't think that anyone disagrees that Markakis is better, but it isn't by nearly as much as you'd think, at least from an overall production standpoint.

 

All of that said, the minor difference probably says much more about us underrating De Aza than it does about us overrating Markakis.

 

To me, Markakis is a good play if and only if you think his defense is at least average. Steamer has him projected as a slilghtly below average player next year because it has him projected at 10 runs below average on defense. If you assume he plays scratch defense, all of a sudden you're in the realm of 2.5 - 3 fWAR, which is a nice, above-average player. Which, consequently, is what De Aza was most of his time with us.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Eminor3rd

[harfman77]

From mlbtraderumors regarding Markakis.....

 

"Assuming there’s no QO in play, I’m projecting a four-year, $48MM contract in a weak market for hitters."

 

So the same speculated contract for both Markakis and Headley. Come on Hahn, let's make it happen.

 

Pass on both for those numbers. Both had down seasons which at their age could mean that they are in decline, too much risk to the organization to paying these guys $12M over the next four years for the level of production they put up. Headley recovered well in NY, but the power did not come back the way I expected it to once he left SD. Also I think the Yankees probably pay to keep him with no other good options to man third in their system.

[ChiSox59]

I don't know about defense, but Markakis is projected to be worse by advanced defense at least. I think it's at least worth considering that because of the nature of De Aza's mistakes, we all have the perception that he's much worse than he really is.

 

Offensively though,VL has a great point. Steamer has Markakis projected for 109 wRC+ and De Aza projected for 106 wRC+. Going to a three year sample (because 2012 was ADA's first full season with us), you have this:

 

Markakis

2012: 126

2013: 88

2014: 106

 

De Aza

2012: 106

2013: 98

2014: 94

 

I don't think that anyone disagrees that Markakis is better, but it isn't by nearly as much as you'd think, at least from an overall production standpoint.

 

All of that said, the minor difference probably says much more about us underrating De Aza than it does about us overrating Markakis.

 

To me, Markakis is a good play if and only if you think his defense is at least average. Steamer has him projected as a slilghtly below average player next year because it has him projected at 10 runs below average on defense. If you assume he plays scratch defense, all of a sudden you're in the realm of 2.5 - 3 fWAR, which is a nice, above-average player. Which, consequently, is what De Aza was most of his time with us.

 

Markakis is a good ball player. De Aza is a s***ty ball player. They both have solid bats, but Markakis will not hurt you in the ways De Aza did. They're actually similar at the dish, but very different in other regards.

 

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Markakis is a good ball player. De Aza is a s***ty ball player. They both have solid bats, but Markakis will not hurt you in the ways De Aza did. They're actually similar at the dish, but very different in other regards.

 

As someone who REALLY hates De Aza, and was the first person (I think) to bring up the idea of signing Markakis, I even have to admit that the advanced metrics tell us that Markakis is only a slightly better player overall.

 

They will both be 31-year-old OFers next year. The metrics show us that De Aza is actually the better fielder AND the better baserunner, as mindboggling wrong as that sounds. Offensively, Markakis takes the cake largely over their careers, but over the recent years, they haven't been too far off. I personally like Markakis more for this team because we have already seen that he CAN be an all-star OF. He's had two 4+ WAR seasons, his highest being a 6.3. The problem is that those seasons were 7 years ago. De Aza isn't likely to ever have the years that Markakis had, but maybe THIS version of Markakis is who he will be, and what he is, is a slightly better overall player than De Aza.

 

So I'm really starting to wonder if I really want Markakis to be signed anymore, at least for any substantial money. I keep asking myself, okay, if I were to offer Markakis 3 yrs/$39M, would I be okay with offering De Aza anything close to that? And I keep telling myself, HELL NO. I feel like I would go 2 yrs/$16M w/ De Aza if I was forced to make him a real offer. The thing is, I wouldn't want to ever offer him anything other than a 4th OF spot for pennies. So it's hard to tell myself that I'd pay Markakis that much more.

Edited October 18, 2014 by Chilihead90

[Chicago White Sox]

So I'm really starting to wonder if I really want Markakis to be signed anymore, at least for any substantial money. I keep asking myself, okay, if I were to offer Markakis 3 yrs/$39M, would I be okay with offering De Aza anything close to that? And I keep telling myself, HELL NO. I feel like I would go 2 yrs/$16M w/ De Aza if I was forced to make him a real offer. The thing is, I wouldn't want to ever offer him anything other than a 4th OF spot for pennies. So it's hard to tell myself that I'd pay Markakis that much more.

The player De Aza was for us from 2011 to 2013, is not the player he is today. A lot of his value was tied to his ability to play a solid CF, which is no longer the case. He's now a platoon corner OF, which has some value since he represents the strong half and provides very good range. But let's not use history to gauge his value now, because he's no longer the same player.

[LDF]

The player De Aza was for us from 2011 to 2013, is not the player he is today. A lot of his value was tied to his ability to play a solid CF, which is no longer the case. He's now a platoon corner OF, which has some value since he represents the strong half and provides very good range. But let's not use history to gauge his value now, because he's no longer the same player.

 

when talking about the stats, I will give way to yous guys. but I always valued his bat.

last yr was a bad yr for him, maybe it was an emotional thing of the sox not valuing him

or something. who knows.

 

his defense drove the sox nuts, wasn't there a time when RV was saying that it appeared

as he wasn't paying close attention but reacted late?

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

The player De Aza was for us from 2011 to 2013, is not the player he is today. A lot of his value was tied to his ability to play a solid CF, which is no longer the case. He's now a platoon corner OF, which has some value since he represents the strong half and provides very good range. But let's not use history to gauge his value now, because he's no longer the same player.

 

He actually got higher defensive ratings in 2014 when he played LF/RF than he did in 2012-2013 when he played CF, and the corner OF spots give less of a defensive boost.

[Lillian]

Markakis is basically a maybe slightly more reliable De Aza for way more money. See, for example (assuming it happens), the Orioles letting Markakis walk, plugging in De Aza for lots of million dollars a year less.

 

OPS over the last 2 years

Markakis .707

De Aza .716

 

Don't know where he's getting this "gold glove caliber" reputation. Fangraphs has him with negative defensive ratings in each of the last 6 years. UZR does in all of those other than 2014 (fluke?). He's got a better arm than De Aza, probably makes fewer boneheaded plays, and has notably less range. In any of the next 4 years he's a decent bet to be a less valuable player than De Aza. Would it make much sense that the plan was to trade away De Aza making $4.2 million a year in order to sign a similarly valuable player in his 30s to a multi-year deal worth (my guesstimate) more than $10 million a year?

 

This is a very astute observation, and practically irrefutable. They have been very similar offensive players, the last 3 years.

Although, Markakis has been a little better vs. LHP.

Defensively, de Aza has better speed, but Markakis has the better arm. That's why de Aza has been in LF, and Markakis in RF.

I think the thing that made so many of us dislike Alejandro was his poor baseball acumen, particularly on the bases.

 

To spend the additional amount of money that Markakis would require, to effectively replace de Aza would be very difficult to justify.

The only way that would make any sense is, if the two minor league pitchers, whom the Sox acquired in the deal with Baltimore were

really good prospects. However, that doesn't appear to be the case.

 

I'd guess that the front office is looking for a more significant upgrade than Markakis. That player should either be a left handed

hitting power hitter, or an exceptional defensive player with speed and a decent average, which would be feasible if they find that

left handed power bat to DH.

Edited October 18, 2014 by Lillian

[greg775]

What about all the guys destined to someday be White Sox. Are they free agents? ...

 

• Torii Hunter. (get him!)

• Grandy. (not as high on him as I used to be)

• John Buck (hate him)

• Ethier or Kemp (seems like we're destined to get one or both someday)

 

Would you like Rael Ibanez as our fourth outfielder? Get rid of Danks and let Mr. Team Chemistry join the Sox? Or make Rael a bench coach?

[LDF]

 

csn Chicago had a interesting article of money being avail for free agent

spending. there is another sort of way that they gage additional money.

I was kind of lost, nevertheless it was nice reading.

 

I am not posting the list. my browser was taking a hit. maybe it is on

my computer.

[GreenSox]

Ethier/Crawford have 3 strikes against them:

 

1)Salary is 2x-3x higher than their production warrants.

2)They are 32-33 years - decline stage

3)They are signed for 3 more years.

 

Yes, the Dodgers will throw in 1/2 the salary, but it still leaves a commitment longer than is warranted.

[2nd_city_saint787]

What about all the guys destined to someday be White Sox. Are they free agents? ...

 

• Torii Hunter. (get him!)

• Grandy. (not as high on him as I used to be)

• John Buck (hate him)

• Ethier or Kemp (seems like we're destined to get one or both someday)

 

Would you like Rael Ibanez as our fourth outfielder? Get rid of Danks and let Mr. Team Chemistry join the Sox? Or make Rael a bench coach?

 

 

While we're talking old folks, can Cuddyer still play an adequate OF? Perhaps as the main DH in the whole rotating DH thing that everyone wants.

 

He can rotate between DH, 1B and the OF. Maybe even some emergency 3B as well.

Edited October 19, 2014 by scs787

[GreenSox]

And let's not forget that the Rangers declined Alex Rios' option.

 

That is a man this team needs - Rios.

[Andy the Clown]

Give me Tomas and Liriano.

[greg775]

And let's not forget that the Rangers declined Alex Rios' option.

 

That is a man this team needs - Rios.

Rios is the kind of guy who needs to retire. I wonder who will sign him and for how much? If I'm a GM I don't want to pay that guy more than the minimum salary.

[LDF]

 

Rios - been there, done that. no thanks.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Rios...LOL

[BigHurt3515]

Rios is the kind of guy who needs to retire. I wonder who will sign him and for how much? If I'm a GM I don't want to pay that guy more than the minimum salary.

 

I will go with either: Yankees, Twins, Padres, DBacks, or Reds

[2nd_city_saint787]

Has this Jozzen Cuesta fellow been talked about on here yet? Can't find much on him other than he's a "Hulking" 25 year old first basemen who can play in the OF as well.

 

Clicked on several links and only one talked about his ability to play the OF....What type of D are we talking here?

 

Here's a BP article if we have any subscribers kind enough to share some info... http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article....articleid=24562

 

 

Dude looks like a beast.

Edited October 20, 2014 by scs787

[harfman77]

Has this Jozzen Cuesta fellow been talked about on here yet? Can't find much on him other than he's a "Hulking" 25 year old first basemen who can play in the OF as well.

 

Clicked on several links and only one talked about his ability to play the OF....What type of D are we talking here?

 

Here's a BP article if we have any subscribers kind enough to share some info... http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article....articleid=24562

 

 

Dude looks like a beast.

 

Cuesta is probably not going to fill a need for the Sox. Silverio would be interesting as a guy that could come out of the pen next season and perhaps transition into the rotation after that.

[Kyyle23]

And let's not forget that the Rangers declined Alex Rios' option.

 

That is a man this team needs - Rios.

 

Yes, i would love to have this ultimate tease/offensive Javy Vasquez back on the team. "LOOK AT THE TALENT, FORGET THE NUMBERS"

[Dick Allen]

Yes, i would love to have this ultimate tease/offensive Javy Vasquez back on the team. "LOOK AT THE TALENT, FORGET THE NUMBERS"

He did blast 4 homers this year.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Dick Allen

[2nd_city_saint787]

Cuesta is probably not going to fill a need for the Sox. Silverio would be interesting as a guy that could come out of the pen next season and perhaps transition into the rotation after that.

 

Curious as to why you say that? If he can't indeed play the OF then I agree because I doubt either he or Abreu become a full time DH. That's why I was asking about the report of his ability to play the OF.

 

I know he's RH but so is Tomas. Is he simply not ML ready? I can't find much about the guy.