Carlos Rodon's Super Fun Time Adventure

[Heads22]

How do you handle him in 2015? If he's one of our best five starters in the spring, does he break camp? Do you hold him out a couple of months? How should we handle him? Are you planning on him slotting in at #3?

[daggins]

I don't count on him to start the season. This is why the Sox should bring in some depth starters in the offseason.

 

Very likely he will need some seasoning, and even if he doesn't it won't hurt to get another year of service time out of him.

[flavum]

After they didn't call him up in September, they might as well go all the way now with his service time.

 

Unless they make an unexpected trade, I'm ok with Sale, Quintana, Noesi, Danks, and Bassitt to start the year.

[BlackSox13]

After they didn't call him up in September, they might as well go all the way now with his service time.

 

Unless they make an unexpected trade, I'm ok with Sale, Quintana, Noesi, Danks, and Bassitt to start the year.

^this^

 

Unless Danks is traded, I would let Rodon work on his command at Charlotte. Hopefully Danks can be traded at some point and open up a spot for Rodon.

 

[southsider2k5]

Start him in Birmingham.

[LDF]

 

it really doesn't matter what we think, it all between the agreement

that the sox already made with his camp, esp his agent.

 

however, I would keep him down for seasoning. this is unless he

comes to camp blazing.

[witesoxfan]

I would call him up after 5 starts in Charlotte, assuming he's throwing fine (which I think he will be). He'll be working on command or stretching out his arm or something, but the reality is just that the Sox want to extend their time with him. I could not care less about his Super 2 status, but I do care about maximizing his service time with the Sox.

[Balta1701]

He lasts in big league camp as long as possible before filtering down to the minor league camps. We pencil him in for starting in AA/AAA depending on his ST performance but AAA most likely.

 

He gets 10-ish starts there and we look at calling him up around June 1 if the major league team is not on top of the division.

 

This assumes we do not sign a big money pitcher and no one gets hurt. Injury opens a big league slot, he can come up earlier.

 

This is a reasonable path for him and "Super 2" is a bonus if we wait that long.

[Y2Jimmy0]

You'll see him in the rotation after the Super 2 cutoff. This was all detailed in another thread somewhere. I will try and find it.

[Y2Jimmy0]

This was the excellent post by lasttriptotulsa that detailed Rodon's situation in the Prospect Watch thread:

 

You still don't quite have it. If he starts with the team next year, he will not be Super 2. To qualify for Super 2 status a player must have more than 2 years, but less than 3 years service time and rank in the top 22% of all 2 years players regarding service time. If he is with the team next year opening day, he would not have enough service time after his 2nd year to qualify for Super 2 as he would just have 2 years and 1 month.

 

Here are the ways his time with the White Sox could be laid out.

 

If he starts with the team next year regardless of whether he comes up in September:

 

2015: Team Control (near minimum salary)

2016: Team Control (near minimum salary)

2017: Team Control (near minimum salary)

2018: Arbitration 1

2019: Arbitration 2

2020: Arbitration 3

2021: Free Agent

 

If he comes up in September and doesn't start with the team next year but gets called up BEFORE his Super 2 cutoff (August-ish):

 

2015: Team Control (near minimum salary)

2016: Team Control (near minimum salary)

2017: Team Control (near minimum salary)

2018: Arbitration 1 (Super 2)

2019: Arbitration 2

2020: Arbitration 3

2021: Arbitration 4

2022: Free Agent

 

If he comes up in September and doesn't start with the team next year but gets called up AFTER his Super 2 cutoff (August-ish):

 

2015: Team Control (near minimum salary)

2016: Team Control (near minimum salary)

2017: Team Control (near minimum salary)

2018: Team Control (near minimum salary)

2019: Arbitration 1

2020: Arbitration 2

2021: Arbitration 3

2022: Free Agent

 

If he doesn't come up in September and doesn't start with the team next year but gets called up BEFORE his Super 2 cutoff (July-ish):

 

2015: Team Control (near minimum salary)

2016: Team Control (near minimum salary)

2017: Team Control (near minimum salary)

2018: Arbitration 1 (Super 2)

2019: Arbitration 2

2020: Arbitration 3

2021: Arbitration 4

2022: Free Agent

 

If he doesn't come up in September and doesn't start with the team next year but gets called up AFTER his Super 2 cutoff (July-ish):

 

2015: Team Control (near minimum salary)

2016: Team Control (near minimum salary)

2017: Team Control (near minimum salary)

2018: Team Control (near minimum salary)

2019: Arbitration 1

2020: Arbitration 2

2021: Arbitration 3

2022: Free Agent

 

While it may seem like a good idea to hold off on calling him up until after opening day next year because you push his FA date out until 2022, a good portion of that extra year will be spent in the minors and you will end up paying him a hell of lot if he qualifies for Super 2 because of the 4 years of arbitration. If he doesn't qualify for Super 2, you're waiting until the season is more than half over so he spent the majority of the time in that "extra" year pitching in the minors. I think the best thing to do is just call him up in September to let him get his feet wet, start him next year with the big league team to go through the growing pains and then in 2016 we should be ready to compete and Rodon will have a year plus experience and should be ready to really help the team.

 

 

 

[Boopa1219]

I would sign some pitching depth this offseason (Brandon McCarthy/Justin Masterson), and have Rodon start the year in AAA for some fine tuning, and I would call him up during either June and July. Hopefully he gets around 120 IP in the majors.

[Rowand44]

If we plan on competing next season then he breaks camp with the team if it was my decision.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Start him in Birmingham.

 

I'd rather he start in Charlotte until his Super 2 passes, that way he can get used to playing in a bandbox, and not a pitcher's friendly park like Birmingham.

[lasttriptotulsa]

I'd rather he start in Charlotte until his Super 2 passes, that way he can get used to playing in a bandbox, and not a pitcher's friendly park like Birmingham.

 

I still don't get why people are so caught up in Super 2 dates. So you have to pay a little more in year 3. Big deal.

[southsider2k5]

I'd rather he start in Charlotte until his Super 2 passes, that way he can get used to playing in a bandbox, and not a pitcher's friendly park like Birmingham.

 

Give him six weeks in Birmingham and six weeks in Charlotte. Call him up on July one to avert all of the Super 2 and service time worry.

[witesoxfan]

I still don't get why people are so caught up in Super 2 dates. So you have to pay a little more in year 3. Big deal.

 

Thank you

[Quin]

If he is one of the best five starters in spring training, try to ship out Danks as hard as possible and if you can't, have him on the same schedule as Danks until you can.

[Balta1701]

I still don't get why people are so caught up in Super 2 dates. So you have to pay a little more in year 3. Big deal.

I think he's had so little time in the minor leagues that we ought to expect him to take 10+ starts down at Charlotte before we throw him into the fire against major league pitchers, and if that happens to put him coming up a week after the ~time where he'd save us a bit of money so be it.

[Balta1701]

If he is one of the best five starters in spring training, try to ship out Danks as hard as possible and if you can't, have him on the same schedule as Danks until you can.

I don't think Danks is ship-out able during the season. The only way it works is if we take some bad contract back and that doesn't usually happen in the middle of the year. I can't recall a comparable example.

 

I did wonder a couple weeks ago whether Danks to the Bullpen in something like the closer's role could make some sense as an option but no one seemed to agree with me.

[Chicago White Sox]

I would call him up after 5 starts in Charlotte, assuming he's throwing fine (which I think he will be). He'll be working on command or stretching out his arm or something, but the reality is just that the Sox want to extend their time with him. I could not care less about his Super 2 status, but I do care about maximizing his service time with the Sox.

100% agree with this. Get the extra year of service time, but don't worry about the Super 2 deadline.

[Boopa1219]

I don't think Danks is ship-out able during the season. The only way it works is if we take some bad contract back and that doesn't usually happen in the middle of the year. I can't recall a comparable example.

 

I did wonder a couple weeks ago whether Danks to the Bullpen in something like the closer's role could make some sense as an option but no one seemed to agree with me.

 

That's wouldn't work, he has not strikeout stuff and doesn't have the velocity to be the closer.

[LDF]

This was the excellent post by lasttriptotulsa that detailed Rodon's situation in the Prospect Watch thread:

 

You still don't quite have it. If he starts with the team next year, he will not be Super 2. To qualify for Super 2 status a player must have more than 2 years, but less than 3 years service time and rank in the top 22% of all 2 years players regarding service time. If he is with the team next year opening day, he would not have enough service time after his 2nd year to qualify for Super 2 as he would just have 2 years and 1 month.

 

Here are the ways his time with the White Sox could be laid out.

 

If he starts with the team next year regardless of whether he comes up in September:

 

2015: Team Control (near minimum salary)

2016: Team Control (near minimum salary)

2017: Team Control (near minimum salary)

2018: Arbitration 1

2019: Arbitration 2

2020: Arbitration 3

2021: Free Agent

 

If he comes up in September and doesn't start with the team next year but gets called up BEFORE his Super 2 cutoff (August-ish):

 

2015: Team Control (near minimum salary)

2016: Team Control (near minimum salary)

2017: Team Control (near minimum salary)

2018: Arbitration 1 (Super 2)

2019: Arbitration 2

2020: Arbitration 3

2021: Arbitration 4

2022: Free Agent

 

If he comes up in September and doesn't start with the team next year but gets called up AFTER his Super 2 cutoff (August-ish):

 

2015: Team Control (near minimum salary)

2016: Team Control (near minimum salary)

2017: Team Control (near minimum salary)

2018: Team Control (near minimum salary)

2019: Arbitration 1

2020: Arbitration 2

2021: Arbitration 3

2022: Free Agent

 

If he doesn't come up in September and doesn't start with the team next year but gets called up BEFORE his Super 2 cutoff (July-ish):

 

2015: Team Control (near minimum salary)

2016: Team Control (near minimum salary)

2017: Team Control (near minimum salary)

2018: Arbitration 1 (Super 2)

2019: Arbitration 2

2020: Arbitration 3

2021: Arbitration 4

2022: Free Agent

 

If he doesn't come up in September and doesn't start with the team next year but gets called up AFTER his Super 2 cutoff (July-ish):

 

2015: Team Control (near minimum salary)

2016: Team Control (near minimum salary)

2017: Team Control (near minimum salary)

2018: Team Control (near minimum salary)

2019: Arbitration 1

2020: Arbitration 2

2021: Arbitration 3

2022: Free Agent

 

While it may seem like a good idea to hold off on calling him up until after opening day next year because you push his FA date out until 2022, a good portion of that extra year will be spent in the minors and you will end up paying him a hell of lot if he qualifies for Super 2 because of the 4 years of arbitration. If he doesn't qualify for Super 2, you're waiting until the season is more than half over so he spent the majority of the time in that "extra" year pitching in the minors. I think the best thing to do is just call him up in September to let him get his feet wet, start him next year with the big league team to go through the growing pains and then in 2016 we should be ready to compete and Rodon will have a year plus experience and should be ready to really help the team.

 

thanks for your hard work assembling this.

[Balta1701]

That's wouldn't work, he has not strikeout stuff and doesn't have the velocity to be the closer.

You say that as though we haven't seen successful closers throw in the low 90s and survive because of control and having an off speed pitch - specifically a change up.

 

Danks has been fairly effective against righties and lefties in his career and one of his problems right now is a dip in fastball velocity. If he could get that back in the bullpen that could at least allow him to be of some use and clear the rotations slot out.

 

Because he relies so heavily on the change up, he doesn't make a good situational lefty, but if he could get a little velocity boost in short stints...I dunno, it might be worth a shot.

[Chisoxfn]

You say that as though we haven't seen successful closers throw in the low 90s and survive because of control and having an off speed pitch - specifically a change up.

 

Danks has been fairly effective against righties and lefties in his career and one of his problems right now is a dip in fastball velocity. If he could get that back in the bullpen that could at least allow him to be of some use and clear the rotations slot out.

 

Because he relies so heavily on the change up, he doesn't make a good situational lefty, but if he could get a little velocity boost in short stints...I dunno, it might be worth a shot.

I would push this to PTAC but another reason Danks may not be a good fit for the pen is guys with / who have had shoulder problems may have much more difficulty handling the extra games / back to back game use vs. a normally healthy pitcher. I don't know that for a fact, but I've heard it said before by various pitchers during telecasts.

[BlackSox13]

The problem with moving Danks to the pen is it pretty much kills any chance of trading him. Nobody will pay 14M for Danks as a reliever so the Sox will definitely be stuck with him through 2016. At least as a starter there is some chance of him getting traded if he can get off to a good start in 2015.