Balta1701 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Oct 16, 2014 -> 03:51 PM) I think they will be after Andrew Miller. I'd be stunned if he wound up on the White Sox, personal opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 16, 2014 -> 12:52 PM) I'd be stunned if he wound up on the White Sox, personal opinion. He might get too much money from a team like the Dodgers, but I bet they have initial conversations with him and have him on their high priority list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Oct 16, 2014 -> 03:57 PM) He might get too much money from a team like the Dodgers, but I bet they have initial conversations with him and have him on their high priority list. Exactly. I think the price he'll get is way, way, way beyond what we'll be willing to pay. I think he'll get what would a few years ago have been "Closer" money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) Priority 1 - sign 1 fa - Sign Tomas. the sox have options available on the team. they need just 1 more player. problem is, if he doesn't sign, then sign Morales as DH. all is dependent on DV and his future with the sox next yr. Priority 2 - sign 1 pitcher. someone who can be a #3-4 Volquez. he can put up 175+ innings and with the sox can get better than 12+ wins easily. this can be until the sox prospect can fill in. the sox can deal with 6 SP's, lets not fall into the void b/c of an injury. Priority 3 - attend the pen. Grilli can be a good 1 yr maybe 2 yr option with 1 of the sox exiting pen pitcher and can wait until Jones to come off the disable list. if Grilli is resigned go with another fa. got to wait until the playoff if over. and / or Priority 4 - sign what is needed for the RP Badenhop, Gregerson, Zach Duke. as a reclamation project I really like Andrew Bailey, I can go with a longer term contract. all 3 are and will be low cost. of the 3 pitchers mention, I like Greserson #1, Duke #2 and Badenhop. re: Bailey, sign him and put in on the DL until he is ready. Edited October 17, 2014 by LDF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Oct 16, 2014 -> 12:08 PM) As far as I'm concerned, Priority 1 is fixing the defense, Priority 2 is fixing the pen, and priority three is finding another starter. In terms of adding a bat, all great but you hope you can accomplish that in conjunction with priority 1. Adding bad defensive players really just isn't a good strategy given our existing defense and how bad it is. 1. Defense 2. LF 3. DH Pen will be better, even if only internal candidates are used. I still think someone like Cleto can pitch. I wouldn't go overboard on starters right now - we should be getting osme out of minors soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glangon Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Priority 1 - Bullpen - Closer - Maybe somebody like Huston Street. Priority 2 - Bullpen - Lefties - Guys like Miller, Cotts or Thatcher. (sign 2 of the aforementioned) Priority 3 - Left-handed bats - Need 2 in, 1 at LF and 1 at DH / 1B - Possible signing Markakis and La Roche to fill these roles. If we fulfil these needs, then I'm happy, I would like another rightie starting pitcher but I think we could go with Sale, Q, Noesi, Danks and Bassitt and be competitive if we attend to the other needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 QUOTE (LDF @ Oct 17, 2014 -> 03:38 AM) Priority 1 - sign 1 fa - Sign Tomas. the sox have options available on the team. they need just 1 more player. problem is, if he doesn't sign, then sign Morales as DH. all is dependent on DV and his future with the sox next yr. Priority 2 - sign 1 pitcher. someone who can be a #3-4 Volquez. he can put up 175+ innings and with the sox can get better than 12+ wins easily. this can be until the sox prospect can fill in. the sox can deal with 6 SP's, lets not fall into the void b/c of an injury. Priority 3 - attend the pen. Grilli can be a good 1 yr maybe 2 yr option with 1 of the sox exiting pen pitcher and can wait until Jones to come off the disable list. if Grilli is resigned go with another fa. got to wait until the playoff if over. and / or Priority 4 - sign what is needed for the RP Badenhop, Gregerson, Zach Duke. as a reclamation project I really like Andrew Bailey, I can go with a longer term contract. all 3 are and will be low cost. of the 3 pitchers mention, I like Greserson #1, Duke #2 and Badenhop. re: Bailey, sign him and put in on the DL until he is ready. I honestly think Micah Johnson may break with the team. but if not, to get time for the 2 infielder the sox may move 1 to the outfield to get playing time. I think 1 positional player is needed, any more than 1 will have the sox overloaded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysocks Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Why do I keep seeing Volquez' name brought up? That guy is a dud. Is it a Coop'll Fix Em mindset? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 QUOTE (shysocks @ Oct 17, 2014 -> 09:07 AM) Why do I keep seeing Volquez' name brought up? That guy is a dud. Is it a Coop'll Fix Em mindset? He had his best season in years this year, he's a righty, he has been inconsistent enough that he's not going to get a long term commitment from most teams, IMO the Pirates probably won't keep him, he won't get a qualifying offer so he won't cost a draft pick, his main issue has been control and so slight improvements on that could push him into the realm of a really good starter for several years. You're right there's some "Coop'll fix em" built into that last part, but he's also shown this year that the right pitching coach can help him get into a really good groove. Not my preferred option but I get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysocks Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 17, 2014 -> 08:25 AM) He had his best season in years this year, he's a righty, he has been inconsistent enough that he's not going to get a long term commitment from most teams, IMO the Pirates probably won't keep him, he won't get a qualifying offer so he won't cost a draft pick, his main issue has been control and so slight improvements on that could push him into the realm of a really good starter for several years. You're right there's some "Coop'll fix em" built into that last part, but he's also shown this year that the right pitching coach can help him get into a really good groove. Not my preferred option but I get it. I realize he's cheap. 6th lowest BABIP of all qualified starters for a ground ball pitcher does not add up. Only thing to like is the lower walk rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 17, 2014 -> 07:25 AM) He had his best season in years this year, he's a righty, he has been inconsistent enough that he's not going to get a long term commitment from most teams, IMO the Pirates probably won't keep him, he won't get a qualifying offer so he won't cost a draft pick, his main issue has been control and so slight improvements on that could push him into the realm of a really good starter for several years. You're right there's some "Coop'll fix em" built into that last part, but he's also shown this year that the right pitching coach can help him get into a really good groove. Not my preferred option but I get it. It is worth noting that Volquez is a MAJOR candidate for regression by his peripherals, in a very similar way that Hector Santiago was last offseason. - 3.04 ERA / 4.15 FIP / 4.20 xFIP - LOB% = 77.5% vs career 71.7% - K rate = 6.54/9 vs career 8.07/9 - BB rate = 3.32/9 vs career 4.49/9 - HR/FB rate = 9.1% vs career 11.4% - BABIP against = .263 vs career .298 A LOT of things went right for him this year in terms of batted ball distribution, homerun rate, and strand rate. All of these things are considered among the least stable metrics for pitchers. Additionally, he struck out fewer batters than ever before (a rate that has been trending down for four seasons now), and made up for it by producing the lowest walk rate of his entire career (which is still pretty high), which is a thing I'm not sure he can repeat. If Volquez came on a 1 year pillow contract, I'd be for it. But since he is coming OFF of such a year and will demand a multi-year commitment based on what looks like a very fortunate and non-repeatable season, I've got to hope we stay away from him. Based on his numbers, he is very likely to disappoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 QUOTE (shysocks @ Oct 17, 2014 -> 01:07 PM) Why do I keep seeing Volquez' name brought up? That guy is a dud. Is it a Coop'll Fix Em mindset? you asked a good question. i have always like him. he mention that he will not sign a long term contract, he wants to build on his success a good inning eater, good for at least 12+ wins and will not cost 15 mil + Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 17, 2014 -> 01:54 PM) It is worth noting that Volquez is a MAJOR candidate for regression by his peripherals, in a very similar way that Hector Santiago was last offseason. - 3.04 ERA / 4.15 FIP / 4.20 xFIP - LOB% = 77.5% vs career 71.7% - K rate = 6.54/9 vs career 8.07/9 - BB rate = 3.32/9 vs career 4.49/9 - HR/FB rate = 9.1% vs career 11.4% - BABIP against = .263 vs career .298 A LOT of things went right for him this year in terms of batted ball distribution, homerun rate, and strand rate. All of these things are considered among the least stable metrics for pitchers. Additionally, he struck out fewer batters than ever before (a rate that has been trending down for four seasons now), and made up for it by producing the lowest walk rate of his entire career (which is still pretty high), which is a thing I'm not sure he can repeat. If Volquez came on a 1 year pillow contract, I'd be for it. But since he is coming OFF of such a year and will demand a multi-year commitment based on what looks like a very fortunate and non-repeatable season, I've got to hope we stay away from him. Based on his numbers, he is very likely to disappoint. with the advance stats, i can not make a counter, i am not smart enuf. but with regression, that can be said with almost every pitchers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 QUOTE (shysocks @ Oct 17, 2014 -> 08:07 AM) Why do I keep seeing Volquez' name brought up? That guy is a dud. Is it a Coop'll Fix Em mindset? He is likely to come at a lower cost, is relatively young, right handed and not likely to receive a QO. Any pitcher that meets that profile is a candidate in my mind, especially when they may only be on the roster until July when Rodon has passed Super Two danger. Of the players that fit that list- Scott Baker Chad Billingsley Gavin Floyd Jason Hammel Josh Johnson Kyle Kendrick Justin Masterson Brandon McCarthy Ervin Santana Kevin Slowey Carlos Villanueva Edinson Volquez McCarthy, Volquez, and Masterson stand out as guys that have had success previously, are ground ball pitchers, and aren't coming off significant injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 QUOTE (LDF @ Oct 17, 2014 -> 08:32 AM) with the advance stats, i can not make a counter, i am not smart enuf. but with regression, that can be said with almost every pitchers. Certainly -- any pitcher (any PLAYER really) is always a risk of turning into garbage due to a lot of factors relating to changes in ability (injury, age, etc.). But what the peripherals say about Volquez is that even his performance assuming the same level of skill is not likely sustainable. This is all just based on correlations of what typically happens when we see these factors. So I think what I should have said as that there is a very strong case that Volquez is significantly more likely to regress than the average pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysocks Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Oct 17, 2014 -> 09:45 AM) He is likely to come at a lower cost, is relatively young, right handed and not likely to receive a QO. Any pitcher that meets that profile is a candidate in my mind, especially when they may only be on the roster until July when Rodon has passed Super Two danger. I'm getting very tired of seeing that argument. Rodon eventually taking a spot in our packed rotation should have no bearing on which free agents to bring in. Why even sign a guy who may not be on the roster in July? Why pay some guy anything at all when we can just have Carroll or Bassitt fill that spot as a bridge to Rodon? There'll be room for Rodon and a good pitcher, I promise. It boils down to Volquez just being bad. His only good season is a distant memory and I don't see 2014 being a springboard to better things. We should aim a little higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 QUOTE (shysocks @ Oct 17, 2014 -> 03:02 PM) so does that mean you and Eminor3rd are not keen on signing him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 QUOTE (LDF @ Oct 17, 2014 -> 10:35 AM) so does that mean you and Eminor3rd are not keen on signing him? Haha, I just don't want to pay him in line with his success in 2014, because I don't think it's likely to repeat. If the market values him as a 1yr/$7m guy and we haven't found anything better, I don't mind taking a flyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 QUOTE (shysocks @ Oct 17, 2014 -> 10:02 AM) I'm getting very tired of seeing that argument. Rodon eventually taking a spot in our packed rotation should have no bearing on which free agents to bring in. Why even sign a guy who may not be on the roster in July? Why pay some guy anything at all when we can just have Carroll or Bassitt fill that spot as a bridge to Rodon? There'll be room for Rodon and a good pitcher, I promise. It boils down to Volquez just being bad. His only good season is a distant memory and I don't see 2014 being a springboard to better things. We should aim a little higher. Its management of resources, do you really want to invest a large share of your resources in a SP when you have one for free sitting in waiting? Personally I would rather invest that money in the lineup and in the pen and take a shot on reclamation guy that you can spin at the deadline - as the Cubs have done each of the last two years. Rodon isn't the only pitcher on the horizon, Bassit is not far away nor is Beck and Danish will probably be ready to break camp with the team in 2016. I just don't want to unnecessarily tie up payroll in duplicative assets when there are holes at 2B, LF and DH that need to be addressed. Volquez may not be the answer, but he is one of a bunch of guys on that list that have potential to take a step forward and provide the Sox some value at the trade deadline. Whoever the Sox get, I would not want them to go anything beyond a 1 year deal with an option, similar to the Paulio deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Oct 17, 2014 -> 05:54 PM) Its management of resources, do you really want to invest a large share of your resources in a SP when you have one for free sitting in waiting? Personally I would rather invest that money in the lineup and in the pen and take a shot on reclamation guy that you can spin at the deadline - as the Cubs have done each of the last two years. Rodon isn't the only pitcher on the horizon, Bassit is not far away nor is Beck and Danish will probably be ready to break camp with the team in 2016. I just don't want to unnecessarily tie up payroll in duplicative assets when there are holes at 2B, LF and DH that need to be addressed. Volquez may not be the answer, but he is one of a bunch of guys on that list that have potential to take a step forward and provide the Sox some value at the trade deadline. Whoever the Sox get, I would not want them to go anything beyond a 1 year deal with an option, similar to the Paulio deal. i believe Volquez said he didn't want to sign beyond 1 yr. Edited October 17, 2014 by LDF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Oct 17, 2014 -> 12:54 PM) Its management of resources, do you really want to invest a large share of your resources in a SP when you have one for free sitting in waiting? Personally I would rather invest that money in the lineup and in the pen and take a shot on reclamation guy that you can spin at the deadline - as the Cubs have done each of the last two years. Rodon isn't the only pitcher on the horizon, Bassit is not far away nor is Beck and Danish will probably be ready to break camp with the team in 2016. I just don't want to unnecessarily tie up payroll in duplicative assets when there are holes at 2B, LF and DH that need to be addressed. Volquez may not be the answer, but he is one of a bunch of guys on that list that have potential to take a step forward and provide the Sox some value at the trade deadline. Whoever the Sox get, I would not want them to go anything beyond a 1 year deal with an option, similar to the Paulio deal. Dude, killer use of "duplicative." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysocks Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Oct 17, 2014 -> 12:54 PM) Its management of resources, do you really want to invest a large share of your resources in a SP when you have one for free sitting in waiting? Personally I would rather invest that money in the lineup and in the pen and take a shot on reclamation guy that you can spin at the deadline - as the Cubs have done each of the last two years. Rodon isn't the only pitcher on the horizon, Bassit is not far away nor is Beck and Danish will probably be ready to break camp with the team in 2016. I just don't want to unnecessarily tie up payroll in duplicative assets when there are holes at 2B, LF and DH that need to be addressed. Volquez may not be the answer, but he is one of a bunch of guys on that list that have potential to take a step forward and provide the Sox some value at the trade deadline. Whoever the Sox get, I would not want them to go anything beyond a 1 year deal with an option, similar to the Paulio deal. Teams use five starting pitchers and we have three holes. One, we're slotting Rodon into despite having no idea if he's going to earn it. Apparently we're also saving room for a whole bunch of prospects who are months, years, or forever away. If you can guarantee me that one of Bassitt, Beck, and Danish will be a valuable MLB starter in 2016, then I'll agree that we should play the sign-and-trade game, but I think you're really overrating the talent of those guys. There's room for a pitcher on a multi-year deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 QUOTE (shysocks @ Oct 17, 2014 -> 06:28 PM) Teams use five starting pitchers and we have three holes. One, we're slotting Rodon into despite having no idea if he's going to earn it. Apparently we're also saving room for a whole bunch of prospects who are months, years, or forever away. If you can guarantee me that one of Bassitt, Beck, and Danish will be a valuable MLB starter in 2016, then I'll agree that we should play the sign-and-trade game, but I think you're really overrating the talent of those guys. There's room for a pitcher on a multi-year deal. excellent last yr prove the mistake of doing the minimum and expect the most. go into spring where the team has options lots of options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 1.) RHSP 2.) Bullpen 3.) 2 LH Bats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 (edited) Sox have 2 holes in the rotation, not 3. Noesi and/or Danks can handle the #5 position. Noesi did it admirably last season I'd go after a mid-tier pitcher who appears to be a ground ball pitcher like McCarthy. After this year, the price of relief pitchers is going to be so high that I wish the Sox had some to deal. I think Carroll can be a good reliever. Sign 1 but be careful. Edited October 19, 2014 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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