TheFutureIsNear Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Oct 18, 2014 -> 12:39 PM) Like I said, it sounds awful when you don't accept that fact that he has the 2nd highest WAR total in baseball since his first full season in the bigs. That's from 2009 through 2014, the ONLY player in baseball who has been better is Miguel Cabrera, and not by much. He ranks better than Cano, Longoria, McCutchen, Beltre, Votto, Pedroia, Tulo, Pujols, etc. Would you not give up 3 prospects who may not even be listed as top 100 prospects for one of those guys for 1 year coming off an MVP season, even at age 33? I think because it's Ben Zobrist and not one of those names above, we feel we don't trust it. WAR has its flaws and should be used as only part of evaluating a player. At some point common sense needs to be put into the equation. WAR puts way too much stock in flawed defensive metrics. If you trust WAR that much than that means both Zobrist and Alex Gordon were more valuable than Abreu last year. And I'm just not accepting any kind of argument that says this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Oct 18, 2014 -> 03:42 PM) WAR has its flaws and should be used as only part of evaluating a player. At some point common sense needs to be put into the equation. WAR puts way too much stock in flawed defensive metrics. If you trust WAR that much than that means both Zobrist and Alex Gordon were more valuable than Abreu last year. And I'm just not accepting any kind of argument that says this. Well their teams were a helluva lot better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFutureIsNear Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 18, 2014 -> 04:13 PM) Well their teams were a helluva lot better. Lol and? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Oct 18, 2014 -> 03:22 PM) Lol and? I assume he's saying Zobrist and Gordon's WARs are inflated over Abreu's because they have better players around them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Too bad Yoenis Cespedes isn't left handed. All the Cubans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Oct 18, 2014 -> 11:39 AM) Would you not give up 3 prospects who may not even be listed as top 100 prospects for one of those guys for 1 year coming off an MVP season, even at age 33? I think because it's Ben Zobrist and not one of those names above, we feel we don't trust it. You're right, I don't trust it. And even if I did, I wouldn't do it. That's a clown move for a 74 win team to trade good prospects for 1 year of a good player who's in his mid 30s and experiencing decline in production. this org is also still thin on pitching. It's getting better, quickly, but it's still thin. And, yes let's be that organization that values its prospects and demands fair return for them, versus an organization that trades them for middle relievers and mediocre veterans. Edited October 19, 2014 by GreenSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 (edited) Boston could make Cespedes available. Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe reports that "word has spread" that the Red Sox could make Yoenis Cespedes available for trade this offseason. General manager Ben Cherington said last month that the team would like to discuss an extension with Cespedes, but it seems the outfielder might prefer to play out the final year of his contract before testing free agency. Cafardo also notes that Cespedes doesn't really want to play right field "or work on his defense." The Red Sox figure to make at least one trade this winter given their glut of outfielders, and it sounds like Cespedes might be the one to go. Source: Boston GlobeOct 19 - 1:00 PM Edited October 19, 2014 by Bigsoxhurt35 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 QUOTE (Bigsoxhurt35 @ Oct 19, 2014 -> 08:05 PM) Boston could make Cespedes available. Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe reports that "word has spread" that the Red Sox could make Yoenis Cespedes available for trade this offseason. General manager Ben Cherington said last month that the team would like to discuss an extension with Cespedes, but it seems the outfielder might prefer to play out the final year of his contract before testing free agency. Cafardo also notes that Cespedes doesn't really want to play right field "or work on his defense." The Red Sox figure to make at least one trade this winter given their glut of outfielders, and it sounds like Cespedes might be the one to go. Source: Boston GlobeOct 19 - 1:00 PM He "doesn't want to work on his defense." My gawd. Is that true? If so, shows how lazy the modern rich ballplayer can be. I'd want no part of a bum like that if that line is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 QUOTE (Bigsoxhurt35 @ Oct 19, 2014 -> 02:05 PM) Boston could make Cespedes available. Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe reports that "word has spread" that the Red Sox could make Yoenis Cespedes available for trade this offseason. General manager Ben Cherington said last month that the team would like to discuss an extension with Cespedes, but it seems the outfielder might prefer to play out the final year of his contract before testing free agency. Cafardo also notes that Cespedes doesn't really want to play right field "or work on his defense." The Red Sox figure to make at least one trade this winter given their glut of outfielders, and it sounds like Cespedes might be the one to go. Source: Boston GlobeOct 19 - 1:00 PM Someone should troll that Red Sox fanboy who wrote the Sale to Red Sox piece. We speculate that Viciedo and Danks should get it done for Cespedes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Oct 19, 2014 -> 03:08 PM) Someone should troll that Red Sox fanboy who wrote the Sale to Red Sox piece. We speculate that Viciedo and Danks should get it done for Cespedes. It's not like a year of Cespedes is worth a ton anyway. Edited October 19, 2014 by GreenSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Oct 18, 2014 -> 02:42 PM) WAR has its flaws and should be used as only part of evaluating a player. At some point common sense needs to be put into the equation. WAR puts way too much stock in flawed defensive metrics. If you trust WAR that much than that means both Zobrist and Alex Gordon were more valuable than Abreu last year. And I'm just not accepting any kind of argument that says this. Which is just you saying that you refuse to accept any argument that you may be underrating the value of defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Cespedes is very overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Oct 19, 2014 -> 03:19 PM) It's not like a year of Cespedes is worth a ton anyway. To Red Sox fan, he will be worth a ton. Therefore their reactions will make me giggle a little inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
professa Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Sign Pablo Sandoval 5/90 Sign Adam LaRoche 2/24 Sign Emilio Bonifacio 2/10 Sign Jonny Gomes 1/5 Sign Edinson Volquez 3/24 Sign Joe Thatcher 2/8 Sign K-Rod 2/14 (MLBTR Projected Salary) Trade Tank for reliever or specs Lineup 1. Eaton CF 2. Alexei SS 3. Abreu 1B/DH 4. Sandoval 3B 5. LaRoche 1B/DH 6. Garcia RF 7. Gillaspie/Gomes LF platoon 8. Flowers C 9. Micah/Semien/Sanchez Rotation 1. Sale 2. Volquez 3. Quintana 4. Danks 5. Noesi/Rodon Pen Cl K Rod SU Petricka SU Putnam MR Thatcher MR Guerra MR Webb MR Trade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 19, 2014 -> 07:28 PM) He "doesn't want to work on his defense." My gawd. Is that true? If so, shows how lazy the modern rich ballplayer can be. I'd want no part of a bum like that if that line is true. I really don't believe that to be the case. I notice that when he was traded and talk of the contract began. he stated from the beginning that will test the market. I believe I made a post that maybe he wants to come to Chicago and play with Jose A. so the timelne is there. I wish I could remember the post. maybe its in the Cuban post. ahh who care. I still be in my Chicago comment being true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 QUOTE (professa @ Oct 19, 2014 -> 02:48 PM) Sign Pablo Sandoval 5/90 Sign Adam LaRoche 2/24 Sign Emilio Bonifacio 2/10 Sign Jonny Gomes 1/5 Sign Edinson Volquez 3/24 Sign Joe Thatcher 2/8 Sign K-Rod 2/14 (MLBTR Projected Salary) Trade Tank for reliever or specs Lineup 1. Eaton CF 2. Alexei SS 3. Abreu 1B/DH 4. Sandoval 3B 5. LaRoche 1B/DH 6. Garcia RF 7. Gillaspie/Gomes LF platoon 8. Flowers C 9. Micah/Semien/Sanchez Rotation 1. Sale 2. Volquez 3. Quintana 4. Danks 5. Noesi/Rodon Pen Cl K Rod SU Petricka SU Putnam MR Thatcher MR Guerra MR Webb MR Trade You've just added on $59 million in salary, more or less. I would be shocked if they doubled the payroll in one offseason coming off such a non-eventful year revenue-wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Maybe Cespedes prefers to work on his defense at the DH position... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Oct 19, 2014 -> 10:55 PM) Maybe Cespedes prefers to work on his defense at the DH position... nah I have outlandish hope for Tomas playing there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 19, 2014 -> 05:47 PM) You've just added on $59 million in salary, more or less. I would be shocked if they doubled the payroll in one offseason coming off such a non-eventful year revenue-wise. Our payroll was $59M this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 QUOTE (professa @ Oct 19, 2014 -> 08:48 PM) Sign Pablo Sandoval 5/90 Sign Adam LaRoche 2/24 Sign Emilio Bonifacio 2/10 Sign Jonny Gomes 1/5 Sign Edinson Volquez 3/24 Sign Joe Thatcher 2/8 Sign K-Rod 2/14 (MLBTR Projected Salary) Trade Tank for reliever or specs Lineup 1. Eaton CF 2. Alexei SS 3. Abreu 1B/DH 4. Sandoval 3B 5. LaRoche 1B/DH 6. Garcia RF 7. Gillaspie/Gomes LF platoon 8. Flowers C 9. Micah/Semien/Sanchez Rotation 1. Sale 2. Volquez 3. Quintana 4. Danks 5. Noesi/Rodon Pen Cl K Rod SU Petricka SU Putnam MR Thatcher MR Guerra MR Webb MR Trade screw it, I am going to write it out. reading and rereading this, I am visually picturing you as some sort of a mad scientist creating a special batch.... a little of this, a little of that and what do we have ...... no offense intended ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 QUOTE (LDF @ Oct 19, 2014 -> 07:13 PM) nah I have outlandish hope for Tomas playing there. Haha, gotcha. I'm still on the fence with Tomas. One day I like the idea and the next day I cringe at the idea. Glad its not my decision to make. QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 19, 2014 -> 07:18 PM) Our payroll was $59M this year? No, but that's the area its currently projected to be with the current players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 19, 2014 -> 03:20 PM) Cespedes is very overrated. Absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Oct 19, 2014 -> 01:32 PM) You're right, I don't trust it. And even if I did, I wouldn't do it. That's a clown move for a 74 win team to trade good prospects for 1 year of a good player who's in his mid 30s and experiencing decline in production. this org is also still thin on pitching. It's getting better, quickly, but it's still thin. And, yes let's be that organization that values its prospects and demands fair return for them, versus an organization that trades them for middle relievers and mediocre veterans. I think you are misunderstanding the conversation. I don't WANT Zobrist. I mean I do, but I don't want to have to trade for him because of what I expressed I am assuming it would cost to acquire him. I'd take him for a lot less, but I don't think a lot less would be enough. I would not give up Montas, Sanchez, and Beck for him, I am just speculating what the asking price may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 For Chilihead90, and Eminor3rd or anyone else, pls explain how he is overrated? For his hitting, 3 yrs at 20+ hrs a yr, hitting avg an avg of 260+, fielding avg of 970. but the rest of the advance stats I do not know. so how are you grading him, unless it is your own opinion. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/...eyo01-bat.shtml I may be wrong in my math. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Give me Yasmani Grandal or give me death!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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