Your 2015 Offseason Plan

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

For Chilihead90, and Eminor3rd or anyone else, pls explain how he is overrated?

For his hitting, 3 yrs at 20+ hrs a yr, hitting avg an avg of 260+, fielding avg of

970.

 

but the rest of the advance stats I do not know. so how are you grading him, unless

it is your own opinion.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/...eyo01-bat.shtml

 

I may be wrong in my math.

 

He is overrated, but that doesn't mean he isn't a pretty solid to good player. Derek Jeter was probably the most overrated player I've ever see in my life, but that doesn't mean he still wasn't great.

 

I feel like Cespedes is regarded as a perennial all-star who can completely change a lineup. He's not.

 

.260, 23 HR, .316 OBP career averages with average to well below average defense is comparable to like Marlon Byrd's 2014 season.

 

In fact, their seasons were very similar.

 

Cespedes - .260 avg, 22 HR, .301 OBP, 5.4% BB, .450 SLG, 109 wRC+

Byrd ------ .264 avg, 25 HR, .316 OBP, 5.5% BB, .445 SLG, 109 wRC+

 

Not saying they have the same value, obviously, just saying people think of Cespedes way too highly in my mind when his bat really isn't very elite, and his defense has never been above average. He's a nice bat to have, but he's not a bat you NEED to have.

[GreenSox]

I think you are misunderstanding the conversation. I don't WANT Zobrist. I mean I do, but I don't want to have to trade for him because of what I expressed I am assuming it would cost to acquire him. I'd take him for a lot less, but I don't think a lot less would be enough. I would not give up Montas, Sanchez, and Beck for him, I am just speculating what the asking price may be.

Well for Price they got a promising starter and, what, a Semien? And that was for more years and in the July seller's market. So I don't see the price as sky high. I wouldn't do it anyway as the Sox have other needs and don't have the prospects for 1 year contracts.

 

Anyway, what I would do is try to trade Viciedo for Domonic Brown. Similar players, change of scenery, Viciedo's 2 years younger.

Sign a league-average right handed starter; preferably one without a QO

Sign one of the relievers. Not a closer though.

Maybe sign Headley; I like his D

Trade Gillaspie for a LF. I lean to the sign Headley and trade Gillaspie because we need better IF defense and I don't see any really interesting LF.

I'd like to get Michael Saunders out of Seattle (I used to hate him; now I like him). Maybe take a big swing and trade Alexei for him and one of their relievers?

Flowers handled the position really well this year, with few days off. I'd stay put there for now.

Edited October 20, 2014 by GreenSox

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Well for Price they got a promising starter and, what, a Semien? And that was for more years and in the July seller's market. So I don't see the price as sky high. I wouldn't do it anyway as the Sox have other needs and don't have the prospects for 1 year contracts.

 

Anyway, what I would do is try to trade Viciedo for Domonic Brown. Similar players, change of scenery, Viciedo's 2 years younger.

Sign a league-average right handed starter; preferably one without a QO

Sign one of the relievers. Not a closer though.

Maybe sign Headley; I like his D

Trade Gillaspie for a LF. I lean to the sign Headley and trade Gillaspie because we need better IF defense and I don't see any really interesting LF.

I'd like to get Michael Saunders out of Seattle (I used to hate him; now I like him). Maybe take a big swing and trade Alexei for him and one of their relievers?

Flowers handled the position really well this year, with few days off. I'd stay put there for now.

 

Well, the Price trade isn't a great example because pretty much everyone agrees universally that the Rays got a horrible deal there.

 

Some rumored returns for Price included Joc Pederson, Tavares + Shelby Miller + 1st RD pick, 2 of Aaron Sanchez, Daniel Norris, and Dalton Pompey.

 

Basically, packages MUCH better than what they actually got.

[nickofypres]

I can't believe TB couldn't have called 27 other GMs and said "hey, can you beat Drew Smyly, and Nick Franklin in a trade for David Price?"

 

 

[caulfield12]

Drew Smyly at least had proven results at the major league level, both as a starter, spot starter, long man and lefty set-up guy. Didn't he actually outperform what Price provided the Tigers from the time of the trade?

 

Another example. Surely, a year ago, most of the Keith Laws and Jim Callises would have preferred T.Walker or Paxton (and still probably prefer Paxton), but selecting Walker over Smyly would have turned out to be precisely the wrong move, even though at the time it satisfied the prospect gurus.

 

It's the same reason we'll never ever in a million years get Stanton for Quintana. Quintana's not "sexy" enough, he's merely super productive and efficient, which isn't as exciting or headline grabbing.

[LDF]

 

interesting reading on players who may be non tendered.

 

from pit - davis and snider

 

http://cheapseatanalytics.com/pirates-offs...der-candidates/

 

I am wondering who else may be avail

 

 

 

[thxfrthmmrs]

1st round pick?

 

Competitive balance pick. Which I am not sure if any team has actually traded those picks before.

[harfman77]

Competitive balance pick. Which I am not sure if any team has actually traded those picks before.

 

It happened last season when the Marlins traded their pick to the Pirates and then again after the draft the Marlins sent their pick to the Astros as part of the Cosart trade. The A's also sent one to the Red Sox in the Lester deal.

[Vance Law]

interesting reading on players who may be non tendered.

 

from pit - davis and snider

 

http://cheapseatanalytics.com/pirates-offs...der-candidates/

 

I am wondering who else may be avail

 

Travis Snider for Tank. Hahn, this trade writes itself. Do it.

[LDF]

He is overrated, but that doesn't mean he isn't a pretty solid to good player. Derek Jeter was probably the most overrated player I've ever see in my life, but that doesn't mean he still wasn't great.

 

I feel like Cespedes is regarded as a perennial all-star who can completely change a lineup. He's not.

 

.260, 23 HR, .316 OBP career averages with average to well below average defense is comparable to like Marlon Byrd's 2014 season.

 

In fact, their seasons were very similar.

 

Cespedes - .260 avg, 22 HR, .301 OBP, 5.4% BB, .450 SLG, 109 wRC+

Byrd ------ .264 avg, 25 HR, .316 OBP, 5.5% BB, .445 SLG, 109 wRC+

 

Not saying they have the same value, obviously, just saying people think of Cespedes way too highly in my mind when his bat really isn't very elite, and his defense has never been above average. He's a nice bat to have, but he's not a bat you NEED to have.

I really do not think that is the case of people thinking too highly on him.

 

I am still at a lost, but its kool. I respect what you are saying. the 1 element that

others might need to add, is his clubhouse presence. I can't speak of others, b/c

they do not interest me.

 

[LDF]

 

It may be a little too silly to think about, but screw it, trade DV to a team in the

comp rnd and for their pick.

 

I will be happy.

[GGajewski18]

It may be a little too silly to think about, but screw it, trade DV to a team in the

comp rnd and for their pick.

 

I will be happy.

 

That actually wouldn't be a bad idea, if worse came to worse.

[BlackSox13]

Travis Snider for Tank. Hahn, this trade writes itself. Do it.

It almost makes too much sense, especially since its been discussed here recently. I'm all for the idea, let's do this Hahn!

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

It may be a little too silly to think about, but screw it, trade DV to a team in the

comp rnd and for their pick.

 

I will be happy.

 

Would you trade Spencer Adams for Dayan Viciedo?

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Because video game trades are realistic, I FINALLY started my franchise on The Show, and my first moves were to trade for Grandal and Tyson Ross, then trade for Drew Stubbs to play LF. Viciedo and Wilkins are my platoon DHs.

[Quin]

It may be a little too silly to think about, but screw it, trade DV to a team in the

comp rnd and for their pick.

 

I will be happy.

 

If we could find another Spencer Adams type in the comp round, I'd be all over this.

 

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

If we could find another Spencer Adams type in the comp round, I'd be all over this.

 

That was kind of my point. If you can get ANYONE's comp round pick for Tank, then do it, because all those guys got picked BEFORE Spencer Adams did, and he's an immediately top 3 pitching prospect for us.

 

[LDF]

Would you trade Spencer Adams for Dayan Viciedo?

 

there are factors to think about. the #1 factor is empty seats. if a team is looking

at getting help to put them in the playoff. those seats are revenue. then you need

to think of all the commercial venture and their money coming in.

 

this is what I learned from $$$ Bill of the hawks in the 80's. money will do the talking.

 

now lets look at what they will give up. Adams, his control is a minimum and will be around

4 yrs before the team start to see a rtn, maybe. lets not forget, injury risk, or the

prospect never delivers.

 

 

~~~~ Edit ~~~~

 

I was thinking, the sentence about $$$ Bill, it sounded as I knew him personally. the

answer is no. I was using his example of how he ran the team and what leaked for the

GM meeting when the new owners were coming in.

Edited October 21, 2014 by LDF

[GreenSox]

Well, the Price trade isn't a great example because pretty much everyone agrees universally that the Rays got a horrible deal there.

 

Some rumored returns for Price included Joc Pederson, Tavares + Shelby Miller + 1st RD pick, 2 of Aaron Sanchez, Daniel Norris, and Dalton Pompey.

 

Basically, packages MUCH better than what they actually got.

That's a massive overpay - no one pays that price anymore.

And if it was true, why didn't they take it?

 

 

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

That's a massive overpay - no one pays that price anymore.

And if it was true, why didn't they take it?

 

Probably because those teams never offered those things, at least not all together, otherwise there is no way TB settles on that putrid return they accepted.

[Lillian]

The Sox do not have a single player of importance, who is near the end of his prime.

Unless they sign Martinez, or make some other significant acquisition, they will likely not be ready to compete in 2015.

For the following reasons, perhaps 2016 should be the targeted year to make a run:

 

1) There are several important pieces that have yet to prove whether they can be

counted upon to be significant contributors. I’d be willing to wait a year to find out what they have in Rodon, A. Garcia, Bassitt, Montas, Cleto and at least two of the following group:

Semien, Sanchez, Saladino and Michah Johnson. I’d also still like a better look at Wilkins. I was disappointed that the front office couldn’t move Dunn any sooner, so that Wilkins

could have had more than 43 at bats, which hardly is sufficient to determine anything.

 

2) They are drafting high again this June, and could conceivably acquire another piece, who could contribute in 2016

 

3) This years free agent crop does not look all that enticing.

 

4) Next years free agents (assuming they don’t get extended) include names like Jason Heyward,

Justin Upton, Chris Davis, Alex Gordon, and Cespedes.

Those names would be better fits than Victor Martinez, going forward, for a young team that wants to contend for a few years.

 

Therefore, I would Trade Alexei, perhaps for a LH power hitting prospect, who is near ready.

At 33, and with his contract, he could be a key to a couple of contenders in 2015.

Which teams would have the greatest interest, and do any of them have a near ready LH power bat, who can play a position that fits the Sox (OF, DH, C, 3B)?

Trading Alexei makes sense, if the Sox won’t be ready til ‘16. He would likely be slowing down enough by then, that his defense may no longer be elite.

 

The organization has all of those middle infielders, at least a couple of whom should be ready to take over by '16, and who would benefit by one years experience, at

the Major League level. Trading Alexei would help provide an opportunity to sort out the log jam in the infield. Saladino, Anderson and eventually Rondon could all become Major League Short Stops.

If the Sox can build a solid offense, they may be able to settle for little, to no offensive production at SS, in order to put the best defense on the field. Rondon is the candidate for that scenario.

There are several candidates for 2B including Sanchez, Semien, Johnson and Alvarez.

 

If the Sox acquire V. Martinez, then Alexei could anchor the middle infield defense, for a Post Season run next season.

However, if they decide to wait one more year, doesn't a trade of Ramirez make sense?

Edited October 21, 2014 by Lillian

[cabiness42]

I try to resist answering these sorts of things because none of us really has much of a clue as to what the pricetags will be on specific players, nor which players will be available in trades.

 

I do think that there are more #2-#4 type starting pitchers on the market than there are premium hitters, so based on that I would lean towards signing a starting pitcher and pursuing 1-2 hitters via trade.

 

I throw out the name Brandon McCarthy as a potential target, but again, it's hard to know what each pitcher will cost and which ones would even be interested in Chicago, but just using BMac as a placeholder, that gives you a 1-2-3 of Sale, Quintana and McCarthy. I'd let Noesi, Danks and Rodon battle for the #4-5 spots. If Rodon loses out he starts at AAA, if one of the other two loses out he becomes long relief in the pen.

 

Yes, I'd love to trade Danks, but if somebody isn't willing to take on at least 40-50% of his salary, then the Sox might as well put him in the bullpen.

 

For the bullpen, I see Petricka, Webb, Putnam and Guerra being back. Danks/Noesi as the long reliever unless they both make the rotation then Carroll for long relief. Need two more relievers, at least one of whom needs to be a lefty. I would like to nab two out of Cotts, Thatcher and Gregorson (or hey, all three if you can get them). I'd be willing to overpay for these guys more so than for position players.

 

Starting position players: Abreu is locked into 1B, Eaton to CF, Ramirez to SS, Garcia to RF/LF, Flowers to C, Gillaspie to 1B/DH and Semien to 2B/3B/LF. I don't see Sanchez or Johnson being ready to play full-time, so two position players are needed. There are only a few free agent hitters worth getting, and they are all probably going to be overpaid. If VMart would take a deal that went for 3 years paying $20/15/7, I might bite, because we all know he's not going to be good that third year but the salary burden would be less then. Zobrist, Martin, Span and Sandoval are guys I would take if the price is right, but I don't think it will be for any of them. I'm not really sure who realistic trade targets would be.

 

I don't think any acquisitions need to be made for the bench. Among Danks, Sierra, Sanchez, Johnson, Phegley and Nieto, you can fill out four bench spots.

[Quin]

That was kind of my point. If you can get ANYONE's comp round pick for Tank, then do it, because all those guys got picked BEFORE Spencer Adams did, and he's an immediately top 3 pitching prospect for us.

 

Agreed, but I also think the Sox lucked out / hit it out of the park with Adams.

[Eminor3rd]

However, if they decide to wait one more year, doesn't a trade of Ramirez make sense?

 

Personally, I think so.

[caulfield12]

who are cletus and alvarez?

 

are we seriously considering Rondon and a former speed skater to be in the plans any time before 2017/18?

 

that would be a mistake....Anderson's going to get there first, anyway

 

 

 

i'm also not sure that semien or sanchez should be counting on anything coming into next spring training...the White Sox better have a more appealing option for LF than Semien IMO, at least if they want to encourage the casual fans they're serious about competing