kitekrazy Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Oct 22, 2014 -> 11:41 AM) Some teams need him to be an ace and start every 5 days. The White Sox need him to fit into a 5 man rotation without a specification and make 32 starts. The fact Quintana and Sale make low money and pitch at a high level makes signing a bad contract a little more tolerable. Ugh, I think of Peavey right away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 09:23 PM) About half a dozen would do so. Is 17 to 20 million considered cheap now? I'm asking in a serious tone. Cause if I'm a scout ... the James Shields that pitched this postseason was a Jeremie Guthrie clone. He was not the old James Shields that is for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 09:59 PM) Is 17 to 20 million considered cheap now? I'm asking in a serious tone. Cause if I'm a scout ... the James Shields that pitched this postseason was a Jeremie Guthrie clone. He was not the old James Shields that is for sure. No. It's considered what you have to pay for a middle rotation pitcher. Which is why I have no interest in paying full price for free agents with this team right now. If a team like Cleveland had him this year, that probably would put them in the playoffs and that playoff appearance could easily be worth $100 million+ to the franchise. The Royals run this year will probably be worth more than that to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 07:59 PM) Is 17 to 20 million considered cheap now? I'm asking in a serious tone. Cause if I'm a scout ... the James Shields that pitched this postseason was a Jeremie Guthrie clone. He was not the old James Shields that is for sure. Because he: 1) Pitched a career high in innings (I think it was 257), and has been at 200+ every year since 2008...which, as you know from Mark Buehrle's career, it's a VERY VERY select group who have consistently been able to put up 200 innings for two or three consecutive years, let alone seven. 2) ...had a kidney stone pass during the series with BALT. 3) ...faced a very dangerous offense in the Orioles, probably the best in baseball. Yes, a 6+ ERA for the post-season is unacceptable, but it's not going to prevent Jake Peavy from getting $10-12 million per year from someone in 2015, and it's not going to prevent Shields from getting $80-110 million and 4-5 years. It MIGHT have clipped his years down from 5 to 4 and overall contract from the $100+ million territory he was shooting for (Greinke's $147 million deal with LAD), but he won't be hurting financially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 08:02 PM) No. It's considered what you have to pay for a middle rotation pitcher. Which is why I have no interest in paying full price for free agents with this team right now. If a team like Cleveland had him this year, that probably would put them in the playoffs and that playoff appearance could easily be worth $100 million+ to the franchise. The Royals run this year will probably be worth more than that to them. Or the Mariners...who already spent a TON of money on Cano, but ended up short one starting pitcher when Felix, Iwakuma, Elias and Paxton wore down the final month for different reasons. Chris Young, too. FWIW, Chris Young is one of those 10-15 veteran third tier (behind Peavy/Liriano/Volquez/Hammel, etc.) pitchers who will be available to the White Sox and may or may not be worth the money...with his Safeco statistics making him more attractive than what he's likely to provide for a team in a less-friendlier park for pitchers. With Walker coming fast, and healthy, they can't afford to pay him to be an expensive insurance policy. Edited October 31, 2014 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 31, 2014 -> 02:06 AM) Because he: 1) Pitched a career high in innings (I think it was 257), and has been at 200+ every year since 2008...which, as you know from Mark Buehrle's career, it's a VERY VERY select group who have consistently been able to put up 200 innings for two or three consecutive years, let alone seven. 2) ...had a kidney stone pass during the series with BALT. 3) ...faced a very dangerous offense in the Orioles, probably the best in baseball. Yes, a 6+ ERA for the post-season is unacceptable, but it's not going to prevent Jake Peavy from getting $10-12 million per year from someone in 2015, and it's not going to prevent Shields from getting $80-110 million and 4-5 years. It MIGHT have clipped his years down from 5 to 4 and overall contract from the $100+ million territory he was shooting for (Greinke's $147 million deal with LAD), but he won't be hurting financially. I guess we're at the stage now in baseball they make excuses for pitchers who suck in the postseason who have a good track record, blaming innings. It's more of the "blame the manager, pitching coach" game than blame the players for anything. I mean, my gawd, Peavy was trash, simply trash in his last start. I mean he gets 12 million a year next year. I guess we're assuming his arm will be all fresh up until the postseason. I mean seriously his pitches screamed "HIT ME" at the top of their lungs vs. KCR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I can see the point behind Shields did pitch more than 200 innings not just this year but for his 8th straight year in a row and is 33 so I think maybe its caught up to him. I'm not trying to make excuses, just pointing that out is all. Even though Buehrle just pitched his 14th consecutive, dude really is a beast! That said. I'm with Greg. I just cannot justify the expected salary Shields is going to receive. Basically Shields will get paid for what he has done and not necessarily what he will do in the future as he likely regresses. Shields is really reminding me of Kyle Lohse. But, to a team that thinks they are one starter away from contention, he will be worth it in their eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 10:01 PM) I guess we're at the stage now in baseball they make excuses for pitchers who suck in the postseason who have a good track record, blaming innings. It's more of the "blame the manager, pitching coach" game than blame the players for anything. I mean, my gawd, Peavy was trash, simply trash in his last start. I mean he gets 12 million a year next year. I guess we're assuming his arm will be all fresh up until the postseason. I mean seriously his pitches screamed "HIT ME" at the top of their lungs vs. KCR. Isn't that exactly what we always heard was the reason why the 2006 White Sox fell apart in the second half...overwork/overuse in the 2005 postseason, when they went 11-1? Shields has pitched those high stress/playoff innings consistently over the last 7-8 years. So if it's an excuse for the 2006 starting staff (based on just one year or one additional World Baseball Classic), then it's certainly applicable to Shields. Keep in mind, the Royals played 15 additional games this postseason, not a mere 12...so Shields had one or two more starts than most of our starters that year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 (edited) Excluding his dismal postseason(s), Shields is still not an "ace" and has had only 1 season where he pitched like one (and that was only sort-of). He tops out as a 2. Sure some teams will/have used him as an ace, but that's not what he his. Yes, with the Sox, he would fit nicely as a #3. But he wants #1 money and while I don't think he'll get it, he'll get solid #2 money (15-20 mill per). We can probably get the same with McCarthy at 60% of the price, although without the durability. On the other hand, Shields is 32 and that wear from heavy use may be showing. Signing pitchers is always risky - who knows? Edited November 1, 2014 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Nov 1, 2014 -> 10:13 AM) Excluding his dismal postseason(s), Shields is still not an "ace" and has had only 1 season where he pitched like one (and that was only sort-of). He tops out as a 2. Sure some teams will/have used him as an ace, but that's not what he his. Yes, with the Sox, he would fit nicely as a #3. But he wants #1 money and while I don't think he'll get it, he'll get solid #2 money (15-20 mill per). We can probably get the same with McCarthy at 60% of the price, although without the durability. On the other hand, Shields is 32 and that wear from heavy use may be showing. Signing pitchers is always risky - who knows? I'm sure he wants $25 mil per year but I doubt they'll even ask for that because silly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Nov 1, 2014 -> 09:13 AM) Excluding his dismal postseason(s), Shields is still not an "ace" and has had only 1 season where he pitched like one (and that was only sort-of). He tops out as a 2. Sure some teams will/have used him as an ace, but that's not what he his. Yes, with the Sox, he would fit nicely as a #3. But he wants #1 money and while I don't think he'll get it, he'll get solid #2 money (15-20 mill per). We can probably get the same with McCarthy at 60% of the price, although without the durability. On the other hand, Shields is 32 and that wear from heavy use may be showing. Signing pitchers is always risky - who knows? Well, there's little doubt that when the playoffs came, Shields sure as hell pitched liked #2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Kansas City Royals @Royals 18m18 minutes ago #Royals announce that they've extended a Qualifying Offer to RHP James Shields. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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