Open Shooter Incident in Ottawa, Canada

[Jenksismyhero]

I'm not saying followers of other religions don't use violence, but non-Jews/Christians don't join the cause to kill non-believers of that religion. Nor do those religions really have a "jihad" component to their beliefs. Jihad isn't read by some to mean violence, but I think most agree it's linked to military involvement against "oppressors."

[Balta1701]

I'm not saying followers of other religions don't use violence, but non-Jews/Christians don't join the cause to kill non-believers of that religion. Nor do those religions really have a "jihad" component to their beliefs. Jihad isn't read by some to mean violence, but I think most agree it's linked to military involvement against "oppressors."

They called it "crusades" and "inquisitions".

[Jenksismyhero]

They called it "crusades" and "inquisitions".

 

Neither really based on religious doctrine though.

[NorthSideSox72]

They called it "crusades" and "inquisitions".

Actually much more recently, the Klan was nominally representing Christianity's interests. Though again, in reality, that was part of a mask. That's my point.

 

There's no denying that Islam, among large religions, is having far and away a worse problem with this than the others at this stage in history. It just is.

 

All I'm saying is... crazy attracts crazy. This guy was nuts before he converted. If you are crazy and angry, you look for an outlet, and they'll pick some of the ones right under their noses. You can't see a news website or newspaper the past few years that doesn't have something about extremist Islam somewhere in it.

 

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Neither really based on religious doctrine though.

Now that is utterly false. It was done under the banner of Christianity, unabashedly and fully.

 

But that was also a very long time ago.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Actually a much more recent example for Christianity, if you want to go there, is what the mostly-Spanish missionaries did in the New World in the 1500-1800AD period.

 

[Balta1701]

Actually a much more recent example for Christianity, if you want to go there, is what the mostly-Spanish missionaries did in the New World in the 1500-1800AD period.

In a larger sense to your point that its undeniable Islam is currently having a larger issue with this, it's also worth asking whether that is something inherent to the religion or it's the result of specific political situations (poverty, unemployment, the resource curse, corrupt governments, money used to finance extremists) taking place in those countries at present. Situations which, I might add, we encourage in many ways.

[Jenksismyhero]

"Done under the banner" is different from being a major tenant of the religion. I don't deny that Christianity has been used by people to start wars and battles. But that's not really a major tenant of the religion. Now I grant you whether jihad is a major tenant of Islam is somewhat arguable and many will say it's not, but at least it's an argument. A war for the homeland and persecution of non-believers or being anti-black is not in any Christian teachings that I'm aware of.

[Jenksismyhero]

In a larger sense to your point that its undeniable Islam is currently having a larger issue with this, it's also worth asking whether that is something inherent to the religion or it's the result of specific political situations (poverty, unemployment, the resource curse, corrupt governments, money used to finance extremists) taking place in those countries at present. Situations which, I might add, we encourage in many ways.

 

Ha, of course, it's our fault! I guess we got what we deserved?

[southsider2k5]

"Done under the banner" is different from being a major tenant of the religion. I don't deny that Christianity has been used by people to start wars and battles. But that's not really a major tenant of the religion. Now I grant you whether jihad is a major tenant of Islam is somewhat arguable and many will say it's not, but at least it's an argument. A war for the homeland and persecution of non-believers or being anti-black is not in any Christian teachings that I'm aware of.

 

The Pope sanctioned the crusades.

[witesoxfan]

Wikipedia says there are 2.4 billion Christians and 1.6 billion Muslims. I'm not sure how they determine those numbers, but the point remains that there are a ton of people in this world who are of either religion. Seeing the 0.0000001% of extremists who use religion as their vehicle for homicide and jihad and then saying "it's the Muslims fault" is incredibly short-sighted and ignorant.

[Balta1701]

Ha, of course, it's our fault! I guess we got what we deserved?

And of course, the immediate response "how dare you suggest that anything we do is ever bad!".

[Jenksismyhero]

The Pope sanctioned the crusades.

 

Pope's have done a lot of stupid s*** "under the banner" of Christianity. Doesn't mean it's in accordance with the tenants of the religion. For centuries Pope's were the most corrupt, immoral people around.

 

And obviously it depends on translation, but the Qaran tells followers to fight non-believers in the name of Allah and keep fighting until Allah is the only god left. I don't think there's a similar passage anywhere in the Old Testament and certainly not in the New.

[southsider2k5]

Pope's have done a lot of stupid s*** "under the banner" of Christianity. Doesn't mean it's in accordance with the tenants of the religion. For centuries Pope's were the most corrupt, immoral people around.

 

And obviously it depends on translation, but the Qaran tells followers to fight non-believers in the name of Allah and keep fighting until Allah is the only god left. I don't think there's a similar passage anywhere in the Old Testament and certainly not in the New.

 

It also says to respect people "of the book" meaning Jews and Christians.

[NorthSideSox72]

Islam and Christianity's holy books (which contain some overlap for those unaware) both contain text making it very clear that non-believers in their religion are, by some description (infidel, unclean, whatever), lesser people.

 

[Cknolls]

Two NYC cops attacked by man with an 18 in ax. One hit in arm the other hit in the head. Loon shot and killed

[EvilMonkey]

Actually a much more recent example for Christianity, if you want to go there, is what the mostly-Spanish missionaries did in the New World in the 1500-1800AD period.

So for a 'recent' example you have to go back to the 1500's? Ok.

[EvilMonkey]

Islam and Christianity's holy books (which contain some overlap for those unaware) both contain text making it very clear that non-believers in their religion are, by some description (infidel, unclean, whatever), lesser people.

But it's what they tell their people to DO to those non-believers that makes them different.

[Quin]

The Nazis preached Christianity.

 

 

[NorthSideSox72]

So for a 'recent' example you have to go back to the 1500's? Ok.

 

As I said, right now, Islam has far and away the biggest problem with extremism (among major religions). No one has said otherwise.

 

But it's what they tell their people to DO to those non-believers that makes them different.

 

The problem is the bolded word. It is more accurate to say "some people" within Islam, as clearly it isn't across the religion. It is splinter groups, which are certainly gaining strength, that are doing it.

 

I think it's important too to read more deeply about groups like ISIL - and see that they are led by people that were criminals and thugs to begin with, now using Islam as a "cause" to promote what is essentially organized crime. They're a gang.

 

[StrangeSox]

So for a 'recent' example you have to go back to the 1500's? Ok.

Religious conversion of American Indians well into the late 19th century wasn't exactly rosy.

 

And I already brought up the LRA, which operates today. For that matter, you can go back to the late 20th century for the Protestant-Catholic fights in Ireland.

[Jenksismyhero]

Religious conversion of American Indians well into the late 19th century wasn't exactly rosy.

 

And I already brought up the LRA, which operates today. For that matter, you can go back to the late 20th century for the Protestant-Catholic fights in Ireland.

 

Getting others to convert is one thing. Defeating/fighting all non-believers for their non-beliefs is another.

[StrangeSox]

"they're a bunch of heathens" was part of the rationale for Manifest Destiny.

[Balta1701]

The Nazis preached Christianity.

Eh, i'm iffy on this. They absorbed the churches into their organization to keep from having to fight them int he 1930s but they really didn't push Christian ideals in any way. They got people to tolerate them or look the other way but they really were a distinct philosophical strain from Christianity.

 

Antisemitism of course does have a long history associated with the Christian church, but again, this strain was something different. You don't read the writings or speeches of that era and hear that many references to God. Hell, I'd say we hear more about God from our presidents in this country.

[Jenksismyhero]

"they're a bunch of heathens" was part of the rationale for Manifest Destiny.

 

But Christians never said "so let's kill them." Again, this isn't 100% of Islamic followers and there can be different interpretations and supposed context that explains it (e.g., some would argue jihad is all about defensive wars), but the Qaran is much more direct about using violence. It's not "don't worship false idols," it's "Prophet! Rouse the believers to wage war. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will subdue two hundred: if a hundred, they will subdue a thousand of the disbelievers: for these are a people without understanding."