Open Shooter Incident in Ottawa, Canada

[Jenksismyhero]

Eh, i'm iffy on this. They absorbed the churches into their organization to keep from having to fight them int he 1930s but they really didn't push Christian ideals in any way. They got people to tolerate them or look the other way but they really were a distinct philosophical strain from Christianity.

 

Antisemitism of course does have a long history associated with the Christian church, but again, this strain was something different. You don't read the writings or speeches of that era and hear that many references to God. Hell, I'd say we hear more about God from our presidents in this country.

 

Many times by force and oppression. While I'm sure some churches opened their arms, many others did not, especially when word came out that the Nazi's were killing off disabled/handicapped people.

[bmags]

Sure, yeah, Andrew Jackson was like "I consider you lesser, but my Christian beliefs are of such that we will treat you like humans and not harm you. That's the new AP history I believe.

[Jenksismyhero]

Let's talk about the source material, not the people that supposedly follow it.

[illinilaw08]

But Christians never said "so let's kill them." Again, this isn't 100% of Islamic followers and there can be different interpretations and supposed context that explains it (e.g., some would argue jihad is all about defensive wars), but the Qaran is much more direct about using violence. It's not "don't worship false idols," it's "Prophet! Rouse the believers to wage war. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will subdue two hundred: if a hundred, they will subdue a thousand of the disbelievers: for these are a people without understanding."

 

But that is kind of what happened...

 

Don't kid yourself, there is a lot of pretty terrible stuff in the Bible that, if someone latched onto, could be (and has been) used for any number of atrocities.

 

NSS has been spot on in this discussion.

[Jenksismyhero]

But that is kind of what happened...

 

Don't kid yourself, there is a lot of pretty terrible stuff in the Bible that, if someone latched onto, could be (and has been) used for any number of atrocities.

 

NSS has been spot on in this discussion.

 

I'd like a quote of a verse, preferably from the new testament, not something followed 3-4,000 years ago. And a verse that's been followed seriously.

[southsider2k5]

Let's talk about the source material, not the people that supposedly follow it.

 

Again, the Islamic "Source Material" states that Muslims are to respect people of the book as well. That hasn't stopped any of the people co-opting the message for their own gain, just like we have seen in pretty much any religion historically.

[EvilMonkey]

As I said, right now, Islam has far and away the biggest problem with extremism (among major religions). No one has said otherwise.

 

 

 

The problem is the bolded word. It is more accurate to say "some people" within Islam, as clearly it isn't across the religion. It is splinter groups, which are certainly gaining strength, that are doing it.

 

I think it's important too to read more deeply about groups like ISIL - and see that they are led by people that were criminals and thugs to begin with, now using Islam as a "cause" to promote what is essentially organized crime. They're a gang.

OK, what percentage of 'some' people is needed before it becomes a problem? With a religion of this size, 'some' can be in the millions.

[NorthSideSox72]

Again, the Islamic "Source Material" states that Muslims are to respect people of the book as well. That hasn't stopped any of the people co-opting the message for their own gain, just like we have seen in pretty much any religion historically.

Agreed in full.

 

OK, what percentage of 'some' people is needed before it becomes a problem? With a religion of this size, 'some' can be in the millions.

Not sure why you seem to think I don't see a problem - I think I've stated clearly that Islam has a major extremism problem right now. I have no idea what percentage of Muslims worldwide hold views in line with the likes if ISIS or AQ. My suspicion is that it is low, but I have no data. And you are right that even if it is 1%, that is a large number of people.

 

[GoSox05]

I think there is a lot of reasons you see that extremist part of it. War torn countries like Syria that are almost lawless are going to be more prone to it. Also have to factor in revolutions, class struggle, intervention, colonialism and sectarian violence. Each country is different and I think it's ignorant to lump them all together.

 

 

Look at Turkey. 76 million people, majority of them are Muslim. No problems.

Edited October 24, 2014 by GoSox05

[NorthSideSox72]

I think there is a lot of reasons you see that extremist part of it. War torn countries like Syria that are almost lawless are going to be more prone to it. Also have to factor in revolutions, class struggle, intervention, colonialism and sectarian violence. Each country is different and I think it's ignorant to lump them all together.

 

 

Look at Turkey. 76 million people, majority of them are Muslim. No problems.

Well, to be clear, Turkey is not fully free of religious problems. But mostly they are under control.

 

India is always a fascinating example to me of religious tolerance. A billion people, including 100M or more each of Hindu, Islam, Christianity and Buddhism, plus smaller groups (but still in the millions) of Jainists, Sikhs and assorted others. And yet India, for the greater part, is a country will little internal religious strife. The big exception of course is the Kashmir, which is a simmering war lasting decades, but that is really more a nation-state construct than religious at this point. Like Turkey, India is not fully free of religious issues internally, but mostly the groups seem to function without going to war with each other.

 

When I was in India (spent a month there in 2005 on business), the city I was in for most of my time there (Pune), just on the road my hotel was on there were houses of worship for Hinduism, Islam, Christianity and Judaism all within a few blocks, some right next to each other. As Americans we take for granted that can be normal, but in most of the world it absolutely is not.