shysocks Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 09:17 AM) I suppose I have. Don't really care though. As soon as the Sox won a World Series that s*** ended for me. I like the Cubs plan. I like the prospects. I hope that they get good and push the White Sox to remain good as well. It's f***ing Chicago. Both teams should be consistently good. I guess I'd just rather have Joe Maddon in town than somewhere else. Same with me, for a short while. But then you had the three straight playoff appearances, and now the 2017-2025 world champs. It's probably half character flaw in me and half the way they express themselves, but Cub fan excitement is poisonous to my good mood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 2014 Joe Maddon 77 wins--Baseball genius. Should make Cubs multiple World Series winners. Robin Ventura-73 wins--Biggest dope ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 09:17 AM) I suppose I have. Don't really care though. As soon as the Sox won a World Series that s*** ended for me. I like the Cubs plan. I like the prospects. I hope that they get good and push the White Sox to remain good as well. It's f***ing Chicago. Both teams should be consistently good. I guess I'd just rather have Joe Maddon in town than somewhere else. The problem I have with the cub is the media coverage is over the top for them. We will hear all winter long that Joe Maddon is the second coming and how awesome he really is. It is a good hire but I also think there will be a tampering investigation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 29, 2014 -> 10:58 PM) It's all cliche. So Maddon is regarded as a great manager. A genius. Big deal. All these managers are basically the same. They make moves that get torn apart. How bout Boche tonight. He should be lauded forever for the way he set that up. They get the lead and Baumgarner is ready to mow down KC for five more innings. Hilarious. Nobody could have orchestrated it better. Meanwhile KC has a perceived buffoon managing the team and they are one Alex Gordon sprint home from tying it and winning it in extras. It's all cliche I tell you. Maddon is just another man. He's no magic elixir. Players win games though I will admit being partial to one, Ozzie Guillen. And what happens if Bumgarner goes down to TJ surgery early next season? I guess most Giants fans will still probably agree it was worth it, as long as it's not a shoulder or labrum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 09:40 AM) And what happens if Bumgarner goes down to TJ surgery early next season? I guess most Giants fans will still probably agree it was worth it, as long as it's not a shoulder or labrum. Winning a World Series vs. trying to protect someone so maybe you can win one in the future.. That decision is pretty easy. If any Giants fan thinks it wasn't worth it, they probably really aren't Giants fans. Only White Sox fans would complain about overuse when that overuse led to a World Championship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 08:43 AM) Winning a World Series vs. trying to protect someone so maybe you can win one in the future.. That decision is pretty easy. If any Giants fan thinks it wasn't worth it, they probably really aren't Giants fans. Only White Sox fans would complain about overuse when that overuse led to a World Championship. Cain and Lincecum are definitely showing some wear and tear...but it's still a lot better than the Strasburg Strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I'd let Sale pitch 18 innings game 6 and 7 if he throws like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 09:49 AM) Cain and Lincecum are definitely showing some wear and tear...but it's still a lot better than the Strasburg Strategy. Exactly. It sucks they are hurt, or have dropped but there is always a chance they would have been hurt or fallen off anyway. Take the titles and run. Edited October 30, 2014 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 09:43 AM) Winning a World Series vs. trying to protect someone so maybe you can win one in the future.. That decision is pretty easy. If any Giants fan thinks it wasn't worth it, they probably really aren't Giants fans. Only White Sox fans would complain about overuse when that overuse led to a World Championship. They would use it as an excuse to not buy tickets, that is for sure. "Well they haven't won multiple years in a row!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 09:55 AM) They would use it as an excuse to not buy tickets, that is for sure. "Well they haven't won multiple years in a row!" If the White Sox ever do put together a run of domination, the next excuse, whatever it will be, will be entertaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 09:58 AM) If the White Sox ever do put together a run of domination, the next excuse, whatever it will be, will be entertaining. Speaking of a "run of domination" (one which, btw, has never occurred during the 34 year tenure of the Reinsdorf ownership group), the Sox ought to really start thinking of doing what it takes to go on one, and sooner rather than later. With the Chicago National League Ballclub starting to awaken from it's slumber, what with the signing of Maddon as manager, the $525M in renovations happening to their ballpark this winter, the coming-of-age of a whole slew of blue chip prospects, and the talks of being big spenders in free agency, they could realistically be on the verge of becoming a real powerhouse in baseball. And if and when that happens, it will be near impossible for the White Sox to win over any "casual" baseball fan in the city, what with the kind of press coverage we all know the Cubs will inevitably get if they do become good/very good again. That's not good for an organization that is already at the bottom of the barrel in terms of overall fan interest, as indicated in it's abysmal attendance and TV ratings. With that said, I truly do believe this to be as crucial an offseason as any in recent memory for Mr. Hahn & Co. in terms of doing what it takes to get out in front of what really looks to be a force to be reckoned with soon on the north side of town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 09:27 AM) 2014 Joe Maddon 77 wins--Baseball genius. Should make Cubs multiple World Series winners. Robin Ventura-73 wins--Biggest dope ever. Well if you think Robin Ventura is a better manager than Joe Maddon, I have some s*** to sell you. I never said he'd win the World Series. I just said it was an excellent hire. Little bit over the top here I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 10:28 AM) Speaking of a "run of domination" (one which, btw, has never occurred during the 34 year tenure of the Reinsdorf ownership group), the Sox ought to really start thinking of doing what it takes to go on one, and sooner rather than later. With the Chicago National League Ballclub starting to awaken from it's slumber, what with the signing of Maddon as manager, the $525M in renovations happening to their ballpark this winter, the coming-of-age of a whole slew of blue chip prospects, and the talks of being big spenders in free agency, they could realistically be on the verge of becoming a real powerhouse in baseball. And if and when that happens, it will be near impossible for the White Sox to win over any "casual" baseball fan in the city, what with the kind of press coverage we all know the Cubs will inevitably get if they do become good/very good again. That's not good for an organization that is already at the bottom of the barrel in terms of overall fan interest, as indicated in it's abysmal attendance and TV ratings. With that said, I truly do believe this to be as crucial an offseason as any in recent memory for Mr. Hahn & Co. in terms of doing what it takes to get out in front of what really looks to be a force to be reckoned with soon on the north side of town. It doesn't matter if the Cubs win 100 games or lose 100 games. Time has shown us that there is only way for the Sox to become relevant in Chicago. Win playoff series. That's it. This town has enough casual fans to support both teams, the Sox just don't have the allure the Cubs do when they aren't in the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 10:56 AM) It doesn't matter if the Cubs win 100 games or lose 100 games. Time has shown us that there is only way for the Sox to become relevant in Chicago. Win playoff series. That's it. This town has enough casual fans to support both teams, the Sox just don't have the allure the Cubs do when they aren't in the playoffs. I don't disagree with you at all. In some ways that's the point I was trying to make - start winning in order to avoid becoming irrelevant. I have very vivid memories of the mid to late 80s when the Cubs were super popular (even though they weren't winning, they were still very popular vis-a-vis Harry Caray) and the Sox were not winning and how completely irrelevant the team seemed back then. It wasn't a particularly pleasant period to be a Sox fan, and I would really like to avoid going back to that type of environment, if at all possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 10:54 AM) I don't disagree with you at all. In some ways that's the point I was trying to make - start winning in order to avoid becoming irrelevant. I have very vivid memories of the mid to late 80s when the Cubs were super popular (even though they weren't winning, they were still very popular vis-a-vis Harry Caray) and the Sox were not winning and how completely irrelevant the team seemed back then. It wasn't a particularly pleasant period to be a Sox fan, and I would really like to avoid going back to that type of environment, if at all possible. At least back then there was the new stadium to look forward to, as well as Thomas/Ventura/McDowell/Fernandez/Sosa/Alvarez/Bere/Lance Johnson, etc. Fun times. Except for 2005, 1990 was my favorite all-time Sox season...2000 probably ranking third. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 10:31 AM) Well if you think Robin Ventura is a better manager than Joe Maddon, I have some s*** to sell you. I never said he'd win the World Series. I just said it was an excellent hire. Little bit over the top here I think. The Joe Maddon walks on water is over the top and TV and radio in Chicago are all over it. McFail, Dusty,Lou, Rudy Jaramillo, Theo and now Maddon. The same crap after each hire. So far, nothing, and until they actually sign better players and their prospects actually prove they can play in the major leagues, it still will be nothing. Joe Maddon averaged 97 or 98 losses his first 2 years with Tampa. Listening to "experts" its hard to believe he couldn't take 25 random Soxtalk posters and not win 90 games. The players are what really matters. Jose Abreu was a far bigger signing than Joe Maddon, and even though it got a lot of play, especially for a White Sox move, it will be nothing compared to what is going to happen when this becomes official. Silly I say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysocks Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 12:46 PM) The Joe Maddon walks on water is over the top and TV and radio in Chicago are all over it. McFail, Dusty,Lou, Rudy Jaramillo, Theo and now Maddon. The same crap after each hire. So far, nothing, and until they actually sign better players and their prospects actually prove they can play in the major leagues, it still will be nothing. Joe Maddon averaged 97 or 98 losses his first 2 years with Tampa. Listening to "experts" its hard to believe he couldn't take 25 random Soxtalk posters and not win 90 games. The players are what really matters. Jose Abreu was a far bigger signing than Joe Maddon, and even though it got a lot of play, especially for a White Sox move, it will be nothing compared to what is going to happen when this becomes official. Silly I say. Well said, all of it. But most importantly, I volunteer. I'm a lefty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Its true that Maddon lost a lot of games when he first showed up, but once the talent from the minors started coming up, you could tell that he had a pretty good grasp on how to deal with it. The Cubs are banking on the same thing happening, and it isnt a dumb gamble. It will be interesting to see the reaction if the Cubs stumble out of the gates, though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 01:08 PM) Its true that Maddon lost a lot of games when he first showed up, but once the talent from the minors started coming up, you could tell that he had a pretty good grasp on how to deal with it. The Cubs are banking on the same thing happening, and it isnt a dumb gamble. It will be interesting to see the reaction if the Cubs stumble out of the gates, though It is a good move my problem is that the minion media and fans will pencil it in as a world series guarantee and the hoopla and pageantry will be off the charts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 29, 2014 -> 09:58 PM) It's all cliche. So Maddon is regarded as a great manager. A genius. Big deal. All these managers are basically the same. They make moves that get torn apart. How bout Boche tonight. He should be lauded forever for the way he set that up. They get the lead and Baumgarner is ready to mow down KC for five more innings. Hilarious. Nobody could have orchestrated it better. Meanwhile KC has a perceived buffoon managing the team and they are one Alex Gordon sprint home from tying it and winning it in extras. It's all cliche I tell you. Maddon is just another man. He's no magic elixir. Players win games though I will admit being partial to one, Ozzie Guillen. One thing that impresses me about Maddon is he appears to be a very progressive, forward thinker. This enables him to understand and implement the analytical strategies of the organization more efficiently and effectively than perhaps some others. As others have said, I also think Maddon is excellent with young players and with shaping a particular culture. All of these qualities would be ideal for the Cubs, or any team that is looking to reverse a recent losing course through development of young talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 01:13 PM) It is a good move my problem is that the minion media and fans will pencil it in as a world series guarantee and the hoopla and pageantry will be off the charts. I don't think this is entirely true. Find me examples of people in the media that actually think that the Cubs are going to win the World Series because they hired Joe Maddon. I think it improves their chances. I think that Maddon is great at handling young players and making the pieces fit. I think the Cubs have enough young talent to compete starting in 2016. If the Cubs win divisions and get into the playoffs on a consistent basis, they have as good of a chance as the other teams. They might win one soon. Joe Maddon would have something to do with it if so but no he wouldn't be the "sole reason" why it happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 01:26 PM) I don't think this is entirely true. Find me examples of people in the media that actually think that the Cubs are going to win the World Series because they hired Joe Maddon. I think it improves their chances. I think that Maddon is great at handling young players and making the pieces fit. I think the Cubs have enough young talent to compete starting in 2016. If the Cubs win divisions and get into the playoffs on a consistent basis, they have as good of a chance as the other teams. They might win one soon. Joe Maddon would have something to do with it if so but no he wouldn't be the "sole reason" why it happened. Watch CSN Sports Talk Live. Watch the sports segments on the local stations. Even Gordon W. the Sun Times Cubs beat writer is hopping on the Maddon bandwagon. He was the one who kept saying the Cubs were toast. The Sun Times had him on the front page of their paper on Saturday when he opted out, before he ever came to the Cubs. If you read and/or watch and/or listen to Chicago media, you wouldn't think there is the slightest possibility Joe Maddon could have managed a team that lost 85 games in 2014. MLB manager is the most overrated head position in professional sports. Maddon's really good, but he's not the difference between winning 90+ and 75. Edited October 30, 2014 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 01:26 PM) I don't think this is entirely true. Find me examples of people in the media that actually think that the Cubs are going to win the World Series because they hired Joe Maddon. I think it improves their chances. I think that Maddon is great at handling young players and making the pieces fit. I think the Cubs have enough young talent to compete starting in 2016. If the Cubs win divisions and get into the playoffs on a consistent basis, they have as good of a chance as the other teams. They might win one soon. Joe Maddon would have something to do with it if so but no he wouldn't be the "sole reason" why it happened. Bovada changed their odds this morning from 50:1 to 33:1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysocks Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 01:33 PM) Bovada changed their odds this morning from 50:1 to 33:1 That's gotta be a reflection of all the action they're getting because of the hire, not an actual belief that their likelihood of winning increased that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (shysocks @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 11:37 AM) That's gotta be a reflection of all the action they're getting because of the hire, not an actual belief that their likelihood of winning increased that much. It's most likely a combination of both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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