LittleHurt05 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (shysocks @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 01:37 PM) That's gotta be a reflection of all the action they're getting because of the hire, not an actual belief that their likelihood of winning increased that much. The Cubs odds are always much lower than they should be, because so many more people bet on them for fun than any other team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 11:45 AM) The Cubs odds are always much lower than they should be, because so many more people bet on them for fun than any other team. Yeah, but at times certain books will still trust their own analysis despite having some exposure on a team. It's tough to figure out why the line is moving sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysocks Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (shysocks @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 01:37 PM) That's gotta be a reflection of all the action they're getting because of the hire, not an actual belief that their likelihood of winning increased that much. QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 01:42 PM) It's most likely a combination of both. I'd say it's pretty heavily weighted towards the former. Think about how many Cub fans probably went and put money on them yesterday, or are about to. They're not sharks looking for the best value, they're just fans in a happy delirium. The book doesn't want to give all those people 50 to 1 because they're gonna bet anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 01:26 PM) I don't think this is entirely true. Find me examples of people in the media that actually think that the Cubs are going to win the World Series because they hired Joe Maddon. I think it improves their chances. I think that Maddon is great at handling young players and making the pieces fit. I think the Cubs have enough young talent to compete starting in 2016. If the Cubs win divisions and get into the playoffs on a consistent basis, they have as good of a chance as the other teams. They might win one soon. Joe Maddon would have something to do with it if so but no he wouldn't be the "sole reason" why it happened. Check the headline http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cu...e-thursday.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 02:08 PM) Check the headline http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cu...e-thursday.html Nowhere in that article does it say that the Cubs are going to win the World Series because they hired Joe Maddon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 07:32 PM) Watch CSN Sports Talk Live. Watch the sports segments on the local stations. Even Gordon W. the Sun Times Cubs beat writer is hopping on the Maddon bandwagon. He was the one who kept saying the Cubs were toast. The Sun Times had him on the front page of their paper on Saturday when he opted out, before he ever came to the Cubs. If you read and/or watch and/or listen to Chicago media, you wouldn't think there is the slightest possibility Joe Maddon could have managed a team that lost 85 games in 2014. MLB manager is the most overrated head position in professional sports. Maddon's really good, but he's not the difference between winning 90+ and 75. Yep, folks, the cliche train can't be slowed down. Maddon is god because he's a Sabes guy and that's the way it is. He's a hero and the Cubs made a great marketing move. Like I said, the word is that he's god and that's the way it is. I'll give credit to the folks on this board who said the Sox had to can Ventura and hire Maddon. That would have been a similarly amazing marketing move by the South Side team. Cubs are gonna be the darlings of baseball's advanced stat people. It's cool to love Maddon and the Cubs now are cool again. Edited October 30, 2014 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 02:12 PM) Nowhere in that article does it say that the Cubs are going to win the World Series because they hired Joe Maddon. No, but what do you think about the "Historic Signing"? What is that implying? I don't think they used those terms when the Sox signed Jerry Manuel. Edited October 30, 2014 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 02:22 PM) No, but what do you think about the "Historic Signing"? What is that implying? I don't think they used those terms when the Sox signed Jerry Manuel. Not sure. That's a headline writer that does that though. Not Wittenmeyer. It will be historic in the sense that he's probably going to make about $30 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 04:56 PM) It doesn't matter if the Cubs win 100 games or lose 100 games. Time has shown us that there is only way for the Sox to become relevant in Chicago. Win playoff series. That's it. This town has enough casual fans to support both teams, the Sox just don't have the allure the Cubs do when they aren't in the playoffs. QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 05:54 PM) I don't disagree with you at all. In some ways that's the point I was trying to make - start winning in order to avoid becoming irrelevant. I have very vivid memories of the mid to late 80s when the Cubs were super popular (even though they weren't winning, they were still very popular vis-a-vis Harry Caray) and the Sox were not winning and how completely irrelevant the team seemed back then. It wasn't a particularly pleasant period to be a Sox fan, and I would really like to avoid going back to that type of environment, if at all possible. You guys are both correct. This is great news for us Sox fans. The Sox now have to make some great moves this winter. They are really in danger now in terms of falling into oblivion media wise and fan wise. This team simply has no chance, as currently constructed, to win games against teams that have been owning them in the Central Division. Hahn now has to go crazy with the 30-40 million bucks he has to work with and get some exciting players, who on paper, can get the Sox going. Can you imagine if the Sox are 10 under after six weeks next season? That is truly a possibility. Last year to the Sox credit they kept within .500 for a few months. This Cub move adds urgency to the Sox front office I'd bet you. Edited October 30, 2014 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 02:25 PM) Not sure. That's a headline writer that does that though. Not Wittenmeyer. It will be historic in the sense that he's probably going to make about $30 million. They were going to pay Girardi the same last year, and historic never came about. I know he doesn't write the headlines, but Wittenmeyer, the guy who has spent the past year or so slamming the Cubs, talking and writing about how they have no money and will be terrible for years wrote earlier that the Cubs are by far the best fit for Maddon. Why would a team with no money who will be terrible for years be the best fit, by far, for a manager in his 60s, when there are several teams that would sign him up? I don't know if you live in the Chicago area or not, but if you do, just turn on the local news tonight or watch Kaplan on CSN, or read any of the articles and the headlines...it is nothing that we haven't seen several times before. Maybe this time it really happens. I tend to doubt it. Joe Maddon winning pct. .517 Ozzie Guillen White Sox winning pct. 524 (That's for Greg) Edited October 30, 2014 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whtsoxfan Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Buster Olney reporting the Rays intend to pursue a tampering investigation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Maddon has not even signed with another club and they are already saying they will pursue a tampering investigation? Was Maddon supposed to hang around and go through another rebuild with that team? He did his time, move on Tampa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 04:31 PM) Maddon has not even signed with another club and they are already saying they will pursue a tampering investigation? Was Maddon supposed to hang around and go through another rebuild with that team? He did his time, move on Tampa. He doesn't need to sign with anyone for there to be tampering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 01:26 PM) I don't think this is entirely true. Find me examples of people in the media that actually think that the Cubs are going to win the World Series because they hired Joe Maddon. I think it improves their chances. I think that Maddon is great at handling young players and making the pieces fit. I think the Cubs have enough young talent to compete starting in 2016. If the Cubs win divisions and get into the playoffs on a consistent basis, they have as good of a chance as the other teams. They might win one soon. Joe Maddon would have something to do with it if so but no he wouldn't be the "sole reason" why it happened. I just heard the older guy on PTI say it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 09:27 AM) 2014 Joe Maddon 77 wins--Baseball genius. Should make Cubs multiple World Series winners. Robin Ventura-73 wins--Biggest dope ever. So what you're saying is, the talent level and strength of schedule is the exact same on the Rays and White Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (whtsoxfan @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 04:23 PM) Buster Olney reporting the Rays intend to pursue a tampering investigation I've seen this multiple times, but what could the outcome of this be if it's deemed tampering? Cubs pay some sort of fine? I mean, I wonder if the penalty is even anything the Cubs would worry or care about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 04:48 PM) I've seen this multiple times, but what could the outcome of this be if it's deemed tampering? Cubs pay some sort of fine? I mean, I wonder if the penalty is even anything the Cubs would worry or care about. I could have sworn I heard fine and possible draft pick forfeiture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 04:48 PM) I've seen this multiple times, but what could the outcome of this be if it's deemed tampering? Cubs pay some sort of fine? I mean, I wonder if the penalty is even anything the Cubs would worry or care about. You could most definitely see MLB force the Cubs to compensate the Rays in some manner they find sufficient yet reasonable. Perhaps it means the Cubs give up a player or two, but it's not going to be anyone of crazy significance, or perhaps they will get cash reimbursements or who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 02:52 PM) You could most definitely see MLB force the Cubs to compensate the Rays in some manner they find sufficient yet reasonable. Perhaps it means the Cubs give up a player or two, but it's not going to be anyone of crazy significance, or perhaps they will get cash reimbursements or who knows. I think they should make them trade stadiums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 04:51 PM) I could have sworn I heard fine and possible draft pick forfeiture As I pointed out yesterday the cubs were guilty of tampering for Theo and now again, it could be a little tougher this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 04:48 PM) I've seen this multiple times, but what could the outcome of this be if it's deemed tampering? Cubs pay some sort of fine? I mean, I wonder if the penalty is even anything the Cubs would worry or care about. They could void any contract that is signed depending on how bad they deem it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 04:42 PM) I just heard the older guy on PTI say it. PTI is still on? I think you guys need to watch better television... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 01:36 PM) They were going to pay Girardi the same last year, and historic never came about. I know he doesn't write the headlines, but Wittenmeyer, the guy who has spent the past year or so slamming the Cubs, talking and writing about how they have no money and will be terrible for years wrote earlier that the Cubs are by far the best fit for Maddon. Why would a team with no money who will be terrible for years be the best fit, by far, for a manager in his 60s, when there are several teams that would sign him up? I don't know if you live in the Chicago area or not, but if you do, just turn on the local news tonight or watch Kaplan on CSN, or read any of the articles and the headlines...it is nothing that we haven't seen several times before. Maybe this time it really happens. I tend to doubt it. Joe Maddon winning pct. .517 Ozzie Guillen White Sox winning pct. 524 (That's for Greg) And yet one could get probably 18-20 head managing jobs in baseball and the other would be EXTREMELY lucky to get a 1st or 3rd base coaches' job. Now why is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 04:47 PM) So what you're saying is, the talent level and strength of schedule is the exact same on the Rays and White Sox I don't think the AL East was all that tough this year, and many pundits predicted the Rays to make the playoffs. I think they had more talent than the Sox, but according to some media, talent isn't necessary if Joe Maddon is around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 05:11 PM) I don't think the AL East was all that tough this year, and many pundits predicted the Rays to make the playoffs. I think they had more talent than the Sox, but according to some media, talent isn't necessary if Joe Maddon is around. As Evan Longoria goes...so goes the Rays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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