Kyyle23 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 06:10 PM) And yet one could get probably 18-20 head managing jobs in baseball and the other would be EXTREMELY lucky to get a 1st or 3rd base coaches' job. Now why is that? Ozzie isn't coaching because if he does it voids his guaranteed(good) money from the Marlins. It isn't because Ozzie is blackballed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 05:49 PM) Ozzie isn't coaching because if he does it voids his guaranteed(good) money from the Marlins. It isn't because Ozzie is blackballed. Let's just put it this way. If he was really a hot commodity, then another team would offer him a better AAV than his Marlins' deal and it wouldn't matter, like the Maddon situation, where he's going to be bumped up from $2 million to roughly $5 million per season. Any team crazy enough to offer him a deal would be asking him to take a pay cut, presumably. Edited October 31, 2014 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 07:38 PM) Let's just put it this way. If he was really a hot commodity, then another team would offer him a better AAV than his Marlins' deal and it wouldn't matter, like the Maddon situation, where he's going to be bumped up from $2 million to roughly $5 million per season. Any team crazy enough to offer him a deal would be asking him to take a pay cut, presumably. Changing the argument again, I see So what is Ozzie, a Pariah or someone who chose not to take a paycut? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I think we've seen this Cub train ride before with experienced managers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 It all just makes me sick to my stomach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I hope the Cubs get whacked pretty good on this. They have embarrassed and left a good man hanging in the breeze in Renteria. I hope the new commish whacks the Cubs silly. They ought to give the Rays a choice of one player off their current 40 man roster and two minor leaguers. That would be crazy to lose a stud player over a manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 09:54 PM) I hope the Cubs get whacked pretty good on this. They have embarrassed and left a good man hanging in the breeze in Renteria. I hope the new commish whacks the Cubs silly. They ought to give the Rays a choice of one player off their current 40 man roster and two minor leaguers. That would be crazy to lose a stud player over a manager. MLB is too desperate for the Cubs to win the World Series finally to force them to give up Bryant/Soler/Russell/Rizzo/Castro/Arrieta. It will wind up being someone more along the lines of Alcantara, if they do get nailed for tampering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 06:10 PM) And yet one could get probably 18-20 head managing jobs in baseball and the other would be EXTREMELY lucky to get a 1st or 3rd base coaches' job. Now why is that? You actually made my point. Ozzie won more often managing the White Sox than Joe did managing the Rays and won more WS. Now Maddon is a lock to lead a team that has not won in over 100 years to heights he has never been, and Ozzie is a bum, just like Dusty, and Lou and the great Rudy Jaramillo. Leo Mazzone was a pitching guru until he got bad pitchers. Then no one would hire him. Edited October 31, 2014 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 http://www.bleachernation.com/2014/10/30/t...ering-troubles/ Unlikely that a player would go to the Rays...as this possible tampering situation is MUCH under much different circumstances Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 31, 2014 -> 07:42 AM) http://www.bleachernation.com/2014/10/30/t...ering-troubles/ Unlikely that a player would go to the Rays...as this possible tampering situation is MUCH under much different circumstances The way this went down, one would have to be very naive to think the Cubs didn't have some sort of contact with Maddon before he opted out, or at least let it be known through "intermediaries" their interest and what they would be willing to pay. One problem is technically just about every team tampers in some form. Another is unless it is totally admitted, unless you want to spend a lot of money and time, which will probably offset any award you may receive, you probably aren't going to prove it. Edited October 31, 2014 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 10:54 PM) I hope the Cubs get whacked pretty good on this. They have embarrassed and left a good man hanging in the breeze in Renteria. I hope the new commish whacks the Cubs silly. They ought to give the Rays a choice of one player off their current 40 man roster and two minor leaguers. That would be crazy to lose a stud player over a manager. Do you know how ridiculous you sound right now? Their choice of a player off the 40 man? That's dumb. It's part of the business. Renteria was fine last year but if you have the chance to hire Joe Maddon you do it. I'm sorry but I wouldn't not explore the possibility of hiring one of the best managers in the game whose thinking is in tune with the front office because Rick Renteria is under contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/10/...me-in-the-game/ The Cubs almost have to admit they pursued Maddon illegally to make him not look bad. Edited October 31, 2014 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 31, 2014 -> 09:29 AM) http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/10/...me-in-the-game/ The Cubs almost have to admit they pursued Maddon illegally to make him not look bad. If there's one thing I have utmost confidence in the Cubs to accomplish it's making their manager look bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 31, 2014 -> 08:45 AM) If there's one thing I have utmost confidence in the Cubs to accomplish it's making their manager look bad. Yes, but that is usually on the field. They are going to make Rick Renteria one of the most sympathic figures getting paid a few million to do absolutely nothing in baseball history. He'll probably show up on Dr. Phil. Edited October 31, 2014 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Was talking to a cub fan friend last night and he expressed a little concern that this is the same as the Lou Pinella hiring. While everyone understands on the surface this is a good/great move, the part of Maddon bringing hoopla to a team that could have simply played baseball and progressed under Renteria who did a pretty good job gets lost. As with bringing up Soler and Baez last year the cub seems to be going toward the marketing angle of things. Also how are the Tigers and Maddon not a match made in heaven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Oct 31, 2014 -> 09:16 AM) Was talking to a cub fan friend last night and he expressed a little concern that this is the same as the Lou Pinella hiring. While everyone understands on the surface this is a good/great move, the part of Maddon bringing hoopla to a team that could have simply played baseball and progressed under Renteria who did a pretty good job gets lost. As with bringing up Soler and Baez last year the cub seems to be going toward the marketing angle of things. Also how are the Tigers and Maddon not a match made in heaven. How was bringing up Soler and Baez done for marketing? Sure it may give an attendance boost but those guys were ready to come up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friend of Nordhagen Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Maddon's great. But I have a few observations, and potential pitfalls, regarding his hiring: (1) Two weeks ago, Renteria was swell because of the progress made by Castro and Rizzo. Why mess with that? (2) If we've learned one thing from the dominance of sabermetrics, it's that the front office guys run things, all the way down to the field. (Ask Art Howe and even Terry Francona about that.) Maddon is a lot of things, but one thing he is not is a shrinking violet. I'll be curious to see how it works out with Epstein and Hoyer. (3) There seems to be some groundswell that Joe's presence will lure free agents. But if the reason for Maddon's reputation was his ability to handle YOUNG players, how do we know he can actually handle a team with those veterans? In fact, the best Rays veterans were lost because of budget (Shields, Crawford). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friend of Nordhagen Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 31, 2014 -> 09:51 AM) How was bringing up Soler and Baez done for marketing? Sure it may give an attendance boost but those guys were ready to come up. Soler, yes. Baez, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 QUOTE (Friend of Nordhagen @ Oct 31, 2014 -> 09:54 AM) Soler, yes. Baez, no. Baez didn't play well when he got to Chicago but he'd shown enough at Iowa to earn the callup. Don't look at this in hindsight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 31, 2014 -> 09:56 AM) Baez didn't play well when he got to Chicago but he'd shown enough at Iowa to earn the callup. Don't look at this in hindsight. Many were talking about his strikeout rates before he ever got called up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 31, 2014 -> 09:56 AM) Baez didn't play well when he got to Chicago but he'd shown enough at Iowa to earn the callup. Don't look at this in hindsight. Kris Bryant deserved the call up which kind of shoots down my marketing theory but he is more of a money risk by bringing him up early. With Maddon he should start opening day. The cubs position is a glamorous role for some reason that affected the predecessors negatively the question will be how he reacts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Oct 31, 2014 -> 10:02 AM) Kris Bryant deserved the call up which kind of shoots down my marketing theory but he is more of a money risk by bringing him up early. With Maddon he should start opening day. The cubs position is a glamorous role for some reason that affected the predecessors negatively the question will be how he reacts. Bryant will not be on the Cubs on Opening Day. He will stay down for as long as possible. I don't have the dates. They have to insure themselves that they have him for as long as possible because there will be no extension. It's 6 years and then free agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 31, 2014 -> 09:58 AM) Many were talking about his strikeout rates before he ever got called up. Sure they were but he is always going to be a high strikeout guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 QUOTE (Friend of Nordhagen @ Oct 31, 2014 -> 09:53 AM) Maddon's great. But I have a few observations, and potential pitfalls, regarding his hiring: (1) Two weeks ago, Renteria was swell because of the progress made by Castro and Rizzo. Why mess with that? (2) If we've learned one thing from the dominance of sabermetrics, it's that the front office guys run things, all the way down to the field. (Ask Art Howe and even Terry Francona about that.) Maddon is a lot of things, but one thing he is not is a shrinking violet. I'll be curious to see how it works out with Epstein and Hoyer. (3) There seems to be some groundswell that Joe's presence will lure free agents. But if the reason for Maddon's reputation was his ability to handle YOUNG players, how do we know he can actually handle a team with those veterans? In fact, the best Rays veterans were lost because of budget (Shields, Crawford). That's exactly what he came from in Tampa. He wasn't the lead dog there, he wasn't ordering all those shifts and what not on his own. Epstein is more probably more of a dictator than Freidman was, but it's not that different than in Tampa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friend of Nordhagen Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 31, 2014 -> 09:56 AM) Baez didn't play well when he got to Chicago but he'd shown enough at Iowa to earn the callup. Don't look at this in hindsight. I'm not looking at it in hindsight. It wasn't just the strikeouts. He had been hitting below .200 in AAA into late June. You'd think for being so statistics-savvy, the Cubs braintrust might've considered the small sample size of his success (1 month) at that level. Even they said they were promoting him as a "reward" for his hard work and recent success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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