LDF Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 29, 2014 -> 06:20 PM) The one thing Ricky also said is that he won't "Spend money just to spend money", which if true is exactly the way he should be thinking. exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Oct 29, 2014 -> 08:16 PM) Exactly, the last thing we want to do is spend money on players that don't fit into our 3-5 year plan, or wouldn't have value in a few years and could be traded off. Spending money on players that fit what you are trying to do now and will be valuable internally/externally makes sense, giving someone a 3 year, 21 million dollar deal when you only have a need for them for 1 year doesn't make sense at this point for the Sox. Those deals are acceptable when it's the last or one of the last missing pieces on a playoff caliber team. We're not there yet. I have some heartburn on some of what you wrote. 1. 3-5 yr plan. I think if I am reading right, the sox may not get into those 5+ yrs contract unless it is for a young superstar. 2. trying to sign a player to a 1 yr contract is also is few, they the player are trying to rebuild their value and if the sox find the right player, then it would be worth it. 3. a contract more in line would be a 2-3 yr contract. let them walk or move on, the sox will be loosing their service and getting players through attrition. the sox has a farm system that if all goes well, the prospects will be coming into a scenario where they can walk in. pretty much like Anderson at SS and Alexei. 4. should the sox spend their whole allotment on 1 free agent or get 2 free agents that may be a little off the top level but would not cost as much and fill 2 holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 29, 2014 -> 02:29 PM) 3. You can make an argument that the Royals rotation is no better than ours, and if you assume that Shields is gone, worse than ours. The defense and bullpen are unquestionably better, but alone, that doesn't create some monolith at the top of the division for the next few years. Except that it looks like Ventura is better than Shields. Shields is not a #1 anyway, and had a lousy post-season. All in all, develop your own pitching, which we may be well on the way to doing (unless some of the suggestions hereon to trade it for veterans happen). But yea, they are no dynasty. Quite frankly, neither was Detroit. They were just the only 90 win quality team in the division for several years. We haven't had one of those in nearly a decade ourselves. Plug holes with even a few average players* and we have a shot next year. there are just a lot of holes that need plugging. *of course, absolutely do NOT trade prospects for average players. There's no evidence that the Sox are trying to win at 75 Mill. They'll spend in the low 100s. But there has to be someone on which to spend money. Spending money just to spend it is nuts. Edited October 29, 2014 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Oct 28, 2014 -> 10:09 AM) Let say Toronto throws is 4M and knocks Buehrle's 2015 salary down to 15M which I believe he is worth. What can Toronto expect in return from the Sox? Not much. He's not the pitcher we need. Screw this sentimentality stuff. It's already smothering the Sox in the dugout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 29, 2014 -> 07:32 PM) I've said it before, and will say it again, there will be a LOT of pressure for the Royals to re-sign Shields that would not have been there if they had flamed out early or missed the playoffs. Nah. Fans here think he's old news. They don't care bout keeping him or Butler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 29, 2014 -> 06:00 PM) Nah. Fans here think he's old news. They don't care bout keeping him or Butler Fans are idiots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I could see him being one of the few reasons we'd stretch our payroll if Jerry is feeling nostalgic again this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (Heads22 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 02:47 AM) I could see him being one of the few reasons we'd stretch our payroll if Jerry is feeling nostalgic again this year. only IF Tor sweeten the deal. I am not talking about a little of salary. they, Tor really need to figure how bad do they want to get rid of his salary??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 29, 2014 -> 01:32 PM) I've said it before, and will say it again, there will be a LOT of pressure for the Royals to re-sign Shields that would not have been there if they had flamed out early or missed the playoffs. WHY? They believe (at least internally) Finnegan could one day be comparable to Sale in the rotation going forward. That gives them Ventura, Duffy (one of the most underrated lefties in baseball statistically), Finnegan, Guthrie and Vargas. (Also, a nice balance with three quality lefties and two righties). A lot of that's OBVIOUSLY predicated on Finnegan developing, just like the White Sox with Rodon. A lot is expected of Sean Manaea, too. With the injury in the AFL to Kyle Zimmer, that does put a little bit of a dimmer on their future...but they also have Liam Hendricks, Lamb coming back from rehab/injury....as well as Binford, who pitched very well in the minors this season and made himself into a solid prospect. The Royals can easily afford to let Shields go....although I doubt they'll get into the Scherzer/Lester sweepstakes, they definitely will be looking at guys like Liriano and Volquez that they can pay a lot less for AAV and for years and still continue to plug in their young prospects. A lot of this depends on how serious the Zimmer injury/situation is... Edited October 30, 2014 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Royals have pitching depth. They don't need to sign Shields, who would be down in the rotation anyway. If anything, the series reduced pressure to sign him, due to his dismal performance therein. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 It ain't that easy to replace 227 innings of 3.27 ERA starting pitching. Especially when you only won 89 games and your unhittable bullpen is due for natural baseball regression. Shields has been a better Buehrle since 2007, while his age is worrisome, he's not that easily replaceable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpd9189 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I love Buehrle but I'd rather see the Sox try to upgrade the bullpen and other areas of the team. If we were 1 pitcher away I'd say go for it but I don't think they're there just yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 05:12 AM) WHY? They believe (at least internally) Finnegan could one day be comparable to Sale in the rotation going forward. That gives them Ventura, Duffy (one of the most underrated lefties in baseball statistically), Finnegan, Guthrie and Vargas. (Also, a nice balance with three quality lefties and two righties). A lot of that's OBVIOUSLY predicated on Finnegan developing, just like the White Sox with Rodon. With the injury in the AFL to Kyle Zimmer, that does put a little bit of a dimmer on their future...but they also have Liam Hendricks, Lamb coming back from rehab/injury....as well as Binford, who pitched very well in the minors this season and made himself into a solid prospect. The Royals can easily afford to let Shields go....although I doubt they'll get into the Scherzer/Lester sweepstakes, they definitely will be looking at guys like Liriano and Volquez that they can pay a lot less for AAV and for years and still continue to plug in their young prospects. A lot of this depends on how serious the Zimmer injury/situation is... Thing is, the Royals are still cheap and with the fans not clamoring to re-sign Shields or Butler, it's easy decision to let both walk. KC still needs some pop in its lineup so I bet they make some moves. They need a slugger. Edited October 30, 2014 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) Please bring back the Erwin Santana/Ubaldo Jimenez debates, lol. Starring Santana again, Not So Big Game Jake Peavy, Hammel, Liriano, Volquez, etc. Edited October 30, 2014 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Oct 29, 2014 -> 05:34 PM) Except that it looks like Ventura is better than Shields. Right, and Sale and Quintana are better than both of them. My point there was simply that their pitching is NOT something that's going to hold us down against them. Our rotation is already better, and it's not even very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 29, 2014 -> 06:25 PM) Fans are idiots. SS, you are a good poster but this is your best one by far. Love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 29, 2014 -> 11:29 PM) It ain't that easy to replace 227 innings of 3.27 ERA starting pitching. Especially when you only won 89 games and your unhittable bullpen is due for natural baseball regression. Shields has been a better Buehrle since 2007, while his age is worrisome, he's not that easily replaceable This. The Royals were the Wild Card and they are most likely losing this performance. It is pretty laughable anyone really thinks making the WS propels them to perrenial greatness. It will be interesting to see if this postseason takes a toll on their bullpen next season. Of course, many here posted 2015 was over when the Tigers traded for David Price. Edited October 30, 2014 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 07:37 AM) This. The Royals were the Wild Card and they are most likely losing this performance. It is pretty laughable anyone really thinks making the WS propels them to perrenial greatness. It will be interesting to see if this postseason takes a toll on their bullpen next season. Of course, many here posted 2015 was over when the Tigers traded for David Price. Probably the bullpen will regress simply because bullpens regress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 08:50 AM) Probably the bullpen will regress simply because bullpens regress. They have had a solid bullpen for a few years. Some of the names have changed, but if they ever get to the point Frankie Francisco has to be given a shot, they will be in a lot of trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 07:32 AM) Right, and Sale and Quintana are better than both of them. My point there was simply that their pitching is NOT something that's going to hold us down against them. Our rotation is already better, and it's not even very good. And since Ventura just beat a juggernaut TWICE in the span of a week, and Quintana's better...then the White Sox should have the best pitching staff in the American League. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 09:23 AM) And since Ventura just beat a juggernaut TWICE in the span of a week, and Quintana's better...then the White Sox should have the best pitching staff in the American League. Well................Don Cooper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysocks Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 09:08 AM) They have had a solid bullpen for a few years. Some of the names have changed, but if they ever get to the point Frankie Francisco has to be given a shot, they will be in a lot of trouble. Bullpen has definitely been a strength of theirs for a while, but that trio was as good as they could possibly ever be this year, and if they're any worse the Royals miss the playoffs. They'll need some other guys to step up in the pen because those three are all they had. I'll be surprised if they win more games than they did this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 08:23 AM) And since Ventura just beat a juggernaut TWICE in the span of a week, and Quintana's better...then the White Sox should have the best pitching staff in the American League. I'm assuming you're being sarcastic, but I'm missing the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 08:46 AM) I'm assuming you're being sarcastic, but I'm missing the point. Most here say Sale's better than Bumgarner....while someone else said the Giants were a juggernaut (the same team that Ventura easily beat twice in the span of a week)...and if Quintana's better than Shields/Duffy/Ventura, then the White Sox should be in the playoffs on a regular basis. Yet they're not even close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 09:59 AM) Most here say Sale's better than Bumgarner....while someone else said the Giants were a juggernaut (the same team that Ventura easily beat twice in the span of a week)...and if Quintana's better than Shields/Duffy/Ventura, then the White Sox should be in the playoffs on a regular basis. Yet they're not even close. Well this is some absolutely ridiculous hyperbole. The Giants have a much better back end of the rotation, a much better bullpen, and were a better all around offensive team. It's not absurd or ridiculous to say that the White Sox have a better rotation than the Royals but a worse overall team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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