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Mark Buehrle


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QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Oct 29, 2014 -> 08:16 PM)
Exactly, the last thing we want to do is spend money on players that don't fit into our 3-5 year plan, or wouldn't have value in a few years and could be traded off.

 

Spending money on players that fit what you are trying to do now and will be valuable internally/externally makes sense, giving someone a 3 year, 21 million dollar deal when you only have a need for them for 1 year doesn't make sense at this point for the Sox. Those deals are acceptable when it's the last or one of the last missing pieces on a playoff caliber team. We're not there yet.

I have some heartburn on some of what you wrote.

 

1. 3-5 yr plan. I think if I am reading right, the sox may not get into those 5+ yrs contract

unless it is for a young superstar.

 

2. trying to sign a player to a 1 yr contract is also is few, they the player are trying to rebuild

their value and if the sox find the right player, then it would be worth it.

 

3. a contract more in line would be a 2-3 yr contract. let them walk or move on, the sox will

be loosing their service and getting players through attrition. the sox has a farm system that

if all goes well, the prospects will be coming into a scenario where they can walk in. pretty much

like Anderson at SS and Alexei.

 

4. should the sox spend their whole allotment on 1 free agent or get 2 free agents that may

be a little off the top level but would not cost as much and fill 2 holes.

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QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 29, 2014 -> 02:29 PM)
3. You can make an argument that the Royals rotation is no better than ours, and if you assume that Shields is gone, worse than ours. The defense and bullpen are unquestionably better, but alone, that doesn't create some monolith at the top of the division for the next few years.

Except that it looks like Ventura is better than Shields.

Shields is not a #1 anyway, and had a lousy post-season.

All in all, develop your own pitching, which we may be well on the way to doing (unless some of the suggestions hereon to trade it for veterans happen).

But yea, they are no dynasty. Quite frankly, neither was Detroit. They were just the only 90 win quality team in the division for several years. We haven't had one of those in nearly a decade ourselves.

Plug holes with even a few average players* and we have a shot next year. there are just a lot of holes that need plugging.

*of course, absolutely do NOT trade prospects for average players.

 

There's no evidence that the Sox are trying to win at 75 Mill. They'll spend in the low 100s. But there has to be someone on which to spend money. Spending money just to spend it is nuts.

Edited by GreenSox
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QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Oct 28, 2014 -> 10:09 AM)
Let say Toronto throws is 4M and knocks Buehrle's 2015 salary down to 15M which I believe he is worth. What can Toronto expect in return from the Sox?

Not much.

He's not the pitcher we need.

Screw this sentimentality stuff. It's already smothering the Sox in the dugout.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 29, 2014 -> 07:32 PM)
I've said it before, and will say it again, there will be a LOT of pressure for the Royals to re-sign Shields that would not have been there if they had flamed out early or missed the playoffs.

 

Nah. Fans here think he's old news. They don't care bout keeping him or Butler

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QUOTE (Heads22 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 02:47 AM)
I could see him being one of the few reasons we'd stretch our payroll if Jerry is feeling nostalgic again this year.

 

only IF Tor sweeten the deal. I am not talking about a little of salary. they, Tor

really need to figure how bad do they want to get rid of his salary???

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 29, 2014 -> 01:32 PM)
I've said it before, and will say it again, there will be a LOT of pressure for the Royals to re-sign Shields that would not have been there if they had flamed out early or missed the playoffs.

 

 

WHY?

 

They believe (at least internally) Finnegan could one day be comparable to Sale in the rotation going forward.

 

That gives them Ventura, Duffy (one of the most underrated lefties in baseball statistically), Finnegan, Guthrie and Vargas. (Also, a nice balance with three quality lefties and two righties).

 

 

A lot of that's OBVIOUSLY predicated on Finnegan developing, just like the White Sox with Rodon. A lot is expected of Sean Manaea, too.

 

 

 

With the injury in the AFL to Kyle Zimmer, that does put a little bit of a dimmer on their future...but they also have Liam Hendricks, Lamb coming back from rehab/injury....as well as Binford, who pitched very well in the minors this season and made himself into a solid prospect.

 

The Royals can easily afford to let Shields go....although I doubt they'll get into the Scherzer/Lester sweepstakes, they definitely will be looking at guys like Liriano and Volquez that they can pay a lot less for AAV and for years and still continue to plug in their young prospects.

 

A lot of this depends on how serious the Zimmer injury/situation is...

Edited by caulfield12
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It ain't that easy to replace 227 innings of 3.27 ERA starting pitching. Especially when you only won 89 games and your unhittable bullpen is due for natural baseball regression. Shields has been a better Buehrle since 2007, while his age is worrisome, he's not that easily replaceable

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 05:12 AM)
WHY?

 

They believe (at least internally) Finnegan could one day be comparable to Sale in the rotation going forward.

 

That gives them Ventura, Duffy (one of the most underrated lefties in baseball statistically), Finnegan, Guthrie and Vargas. (Also, a nice balance with three quality lefties and two righties).

 

 

A lot of that's OBVIOUSLY predicated on Finnegan developing, just like the White Sox with Rodon.

 

 

 

With the injury in the AFL to Kyle Zimmer, that does put a little bit of a dimmer on their future...but they also have Liam Hendricks, Lamb coming back from rehab/injury....as well as Binford, who pitched very well in the minors this season and made himself into a solid prospect.

 

The Royals can easily afford to let Shields go....although I doubt they'll get into the Scherzer/Lester sweepstakes, they definitely will be looking at guys like Liriano and Volquez that they can pay a lot less for AAV and for years and still continue to plug in their young prospects.

 

A lot of this depends on how serious the Zimmer injury/situation is...

 

Thing is, the Royals are still cheap and with the fans not clamoring to re-sign Shields or Butler, it's easy decision to let both walk. KC still needs some pop in its lineup so I bet they make some moves. They need a slugger.

Edited by greg775
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QUOTE (GreenSox @ Oct 29, 2014 -> 05:34 PM)
Except that it looks like Ventura is better than Shields.

 

Right, and Sale and Quintana are better than both of them. My point there was simply that their pitching is NOT something that's going to hold us down against them. Our rotation is already better, and it's not even very good.

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QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 29, 2014 -> 11:29 PM)
It ain't that easy to replace 227 innings of 3.27 ERA starting pitching. Especially when you only won 89 games and your unhittable bullpen is due for natural baseball regression. Shields has been a better Buehrle since 2007, while his age is worrisome, he's not that easily replaceable

This. The Royals were the Wild Card and they are most likely losing this performance. It is pretty laughable anyone really thinks making the WS propels them to perrenial greatness.

 

It will be interesting to see if this postseason takes a toll on their bullpen next season.

 

Of course, many here posted 2015 was over when the Tigers traded for David Price.

Edited by Dick Allen
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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 07:37 AM)
This. The Royals were the Wild Card and they are most likely losing this performance. It is pretty laughable anyone really thinks making the WS propels them to perrenial greatness.

 

It will be interesting to see if this postseason takes a toll on their bullpen next season.

 

Of course, many here posted 2015 was over when the Tigers traded for David Price.

 

Probably the bullpen will regress simply because bullpens regress.

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QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 08:50 AM)
Probably the bullpen will regress simply because bullpens regress.

They have had a solid bullpen for a few years. Some of the names have changed, but if they ever get to the point Frankie Francisco has to be given a shot, they will be in a lot of trouble.

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QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 07:32 AM)
Right, and Sale and Quintana are better than both of them. My point there was simply that their pitching is NOT something that's going to hold us down against them. Our rotation is already better, and it's not even very good.

 

 

And since Ventura just beat a juggernaut TWICE in the span of a week, and Quintana's better...then the White Sox should have the best pitching staff in the American League.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 09:08 AM)
They have had a solid bullpen for a few years. Some of the names have changed, but if they ever get to the point Frankie Francisco has to be given a shot, they will be in a lot of trouble.

Bullpen has definitely been a strength of theirs for a while, but that trio was as good as they could possibly ever be this year, and if they're any worse the Royals miss the playoffs. They'll need some other guys to step up in the pen because those three are all they had.

 

I'll be surprised if they win more games than they did this year.

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 08:23 AM)
And since Ventura just beat a juggernaut TWICE in the span of a week, and Quintana's better...then the White Sox should have the best pitching staff in the American League.

 

I'm assuming you're being sarcastic, but I'm missing the point.

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QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 08:46 AM)
I'm assuming you're being sarcastic, but I'm missing the point.

 

 

Most here say Sale's better than Bumgarner....while someone else said the Giants were a juggernaut (the same team that Ventura easily beat twice in the span of a week)...and if Quintana's better than Shields/Duffy/Ventura, then the White Sox should be in the playoffs on a regular basis.

 

Yet they're not even close.

 

 

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 09:59 AM)
Most here say Sale's better than Bumgarner....while someone else said the Giants were a juggernaut (the same team that Ventura easily beat twice in the span of a week)...and if Quintana's better than Shields/Duffy/Ventura, then the White Sox should be in the playoffs on a regular basis.

 

Yet they're not even close.

 

Well this is some absolutely ridiculous hyperbole. The Giants have a much better back end of the rotation, a much better bullpen, and were a better all around offensive team.

 

It's not absurd or ridiculous to say that the White Sox have a better rotation than the Royals but a worse overall team.

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