Guess the first offseason trade

[spiderman]

Rock said that the Sox were never going to 4 years with VMart.

 

If accurate, that gives me hope. No reason to handicap yourself 2 years from now when Martinez is likely to have a big fall off in production.

[spiderman]

That depends on what the plan is for 2015. If the Sox are really trying to contend then there's no way I would trade Alexei but if 2015 is another step towards building a contender, I trade Alexei while he still holds value and can bring back a good return, provided the Sox get a good offer in the first place.

 

I have been in agreement with you that it's tough to compete for a division if you're trading your starting SS away, especially with as holes this offense currently has.

 

Saying that, now would be the time to move him, given his age/contractual status, and if there's any truth to some of these rumors about getting a top pitching prospect from the Mets. If they can add a young piece like that, I think you have to trust that the Sox can fill that SS position from within or with a veteran on a 1 year deal until Anderson is ready.

[BlackSox13]

There's no way the White Sox aren't going to be trying to field a competitive team by 2016, and IMO no way Tim Anderson should be starting on the big league roster in 2016. If they're going to trade Alexei it has to be a killer offer. Letting him go is a major setback for building a competitive team, so someone needs to really pay up.

 

It's not a perfect comparison, but to give a little context, over the past 2 years, Alexei has put up 6.4 fWAR, Jeff Samardzija put up 6.7. Alexei is paid more, but he's also under team control for longer than Samardzija was when he was traded for.

I think Anderson needs to play the 2015 season before any determinations are made for his 2016 season. No matter what happens, I won't be relying on Anderson until he shows he's ready and that time has not come yet.

 

Alexei is 33, Samardzija is 29. The difference being that Alexei likely will begin his natural regression due to age in the near future while its possible Samardzija gets better. They are at two different points in their careers and possibly heading in two different directions.

 

If what I've bread is true, one of the biggest concerns the Mets have with Alexei is his age and how his range is declining. With Alexei coming off of a very good year, now is the time to decide his future role with the team. At some point his range will suffer enough to where the Sox move him second, third if he still has the arm strength or trade him to another team. If the Sox plan on sticking with him, extending his contract and eventually moving him to secord or third then great, I'm happy to have him. But if the Sox plan on one of Semien/Sanchez/Anderson eventually playing SS, one of Semien/Sanchez/Johnson at second and one of Gillaspie/Davidson/Semien/Free Agent at third, then there's not much of a future for Alexei with the Sox and now would be the time to sell high on him and move on. I'm not saying give Alexei away but this is the time of year to do it since teams payroll's have more flexibility than at the deadline.

 

You're contradicting yourself, but you're right with this post. Alexei actually has a lot of value as others have explained. Mainly due to him being one of the better defensive shortstops in the game AND the fact that he's relatively cheap for the next two years. Personally, I'd like to see the Sox hold onto him. Like you stated above, if the Sox want to contend in 2015, they don't have a better option in house to replace Alexei. Unless some team offers something that Hahn cannot refuse, I don't think he's going anywhere. If the Sox have a bad 1st half (and we all hope that doesn't happen), Alexei could be traded at the deadline...and there will be plenty of teams interested.

Its not really a contradiction as its a s*** or get off the pot moment for the Sox. As I explained above, the sox need to figure out what their future plans are with Alexei because at some point he will noticeably regress and his value will take a hit. This off season could be the best/last chance to get good a good return for Alexei. If he gets off to a slow start his value will take a hit and the Sox will be looking at less of a return at the trade deadline then what's currently out there now. IOW, they waited too long and lost value on Alexei.

 

I still think a big right handed ground ball pitcher like Greene, with 6 years of control and could slot into the #3 spot in the Sox young rotation is a good return for Alexei. Greene fits with what Hahn is trying to build.

 

 

 

 

[BlackSox13]

I have been in agreement with you that it's tough to compete for a division if you're trading your starting SS away, especially with as holes this offense currently has.

 

Saying that, now would be the time to move him, given his age/contractual status, and if there's any truth to some of these rumors about getting a top pitching prospect from the Mets. If they can add a young piece like that, I think you have to trust that the Sox can fill that SS position from within or with a veteran on a 1 year deal until Anderson is ready.

I think you read my mind spiderman. I just posted pretty much what you said.

[ChiSox59]

If what I've bread is true, one of the biggest concerns the Mets have with Alexei is his age and how his range is declining. With Alexei coming off of a very good year, now is the time to decide his future role with the team. At some point his range will suffer enough to where the Sox move him second, third if he still has the arm strength or trade him to another team.

 

Alexei's range may have diminished from when he was 25, but it is still well above league average. Alexei still gets to balls that most SS couldn't dream of getting to. It's all posturing on the Mets end.

 

I would agree that at some point Alexei is going to start aging, and at 33, that time may be rather soon, but I don't anticipate the SOX having to move Alexei away from SS over the course of the remaining two seasons on his contract (15 and 16 option).

[Chisoxfn]

What is so intriguing about Greene? He put up a league average ERA+, never had great minor league results. He's largley a two pitch pitcher who throws 90-94 and has meh command. Yes, his ERA looked decent in a rookie campaign but I'm not trading Alexei Ramirez for him. Not even close. Would be pissed as can be if that is all we received. There is no top of the rotation upside in him. The upside in him is a cost controlled #4/#5? Is that really a smart decision to trade Ramirez for?

[flavum]

Personally, I hope they do trade Alexei because it means they like the value coming back.

 

The legitimate window for sustained good teams is 2016-2019. All of their moves should be with this in mind. If trading Alexei is a part of that overall picture, then go for it.

[Eminor3rd]

Personally, I hope they do trade Alexei because it means they like the value coming back.

 

The legitimate window for sustained good teams is 2016-2019. All of their moves should be with this in mind. If trading Alexei is a part of that overall picture, then go for it.

 

This is my feeling, too.

 

If they don't feel Semien is a SS, I'd be totally fine seeing if Sanchez can stick in 2015. If he fails, I'm totally okay giving Leury a long look. I don't think he has the bat to be an impact player, but his defense should be more than enough to hold down the fort until Anderson comes along, IMO. If it turns out Anderson can't stick in a couple years, well then Alexei will be 36 and we'll be looking outside the org for a solution anyway.

[LDF]

That depends on what the plan is for 2015. If the Sox are really trying to contend then there's no way I would trade Alexei but if 2015 is another step towards building a contender, I trade Alexei while he still holds value and can bring back a good return, provided the Sox get a good offer in the first place.

 

your rtn value as you said earlier is Greene. sorry my friend, that

is not a fair rtn.

 

second, by trading Alexei for Greene, we get a backend pitcher

and create another hole up the middle, how is that helping the

rebuilding???

 

 

[LDF]

Personally, I hope they do trade Alexei because it means they like the value coming back.

 

The legitimate window for sustained good teams is 2016-2019. All of their moves should be with this in mind. If trading Alexei is a part of that overall picture, then go for it.

 

if the rtn value is great, and help fills holes i am for that. you and many have

posted similar ideas, which is very good points.

[caulfield12]

What is so intriguing about Greene? He put up a league average ERA+, never had great minor league results. He's largley a two pitch pitcher who throws 90-94 and has meh command. Yes, his ERA looked decent in a rookie campaign but I'm not trading Alexei Ramirez for him. Not even close. Would be pissed as can be if that is all we received. There is no top of the rotation upside in him. The upside in him is a cost controlled #4/#5? Is that really a smart decision to trade Ramirez for?

 

Sounds like Bassit or Petricka.

[TheFutureIsNear]

I think the best the Sox could hope for is JR Murphy or a prospect of equal value. I cannot say it enough, Alexei does not have the value people would like to think he has.

 

Put it this way. If I were looking for a SS, I would not be willing to give up too much for Alexei for reasons I've already listed in this thread. Honestly, I'm not so sure I'd give up Greene for Alexei straight up.

 

Won the silver slugger award, finalist for the gold glove, plays arguably the most important position on the field, and is only owed $20 million dollars over the next 2 years. That player has a good amount of value. You're acting like good SS's grow on trees. You don't trade a top 5 or 6 SS in the MLB for a #5 starter. That's crazy.

 

I think the other NY team would be where an Alexei trade comes from anyway. They reportedly had an agreement to trade for Rollins already but Rollins nixed it with his no trade clause. Not sure what the Mets have to offer to be honest, but they seem intent on being competitive this year so I can see Hahn getting them to overpay.

[BlackSox13]

Won the silver slugger award, finalist for the gold glove, plays arguably the most important position on the field, and is only owed $20 million dollars over the next 2 years. That player has a good amount of value. You're acting like good SS's grow on trees. You don't trade a top 5 or 6 SS in the MLB for a #5 starter. That's crazy.

 

I think the other NY team would be where an Alexei trade comes from anyway. They reportedly had an agreement to trade for Rollins already but Rollins nixed it with his no trade clause. Not sure what the Mets have to offer to be honest, but they seem intent on being competitive this year so I can see Hahn getting them to overpay.

Well, I've said plenty of times that Alexei's defense is not easy to replace, at least not from within the organization. I did some looking around at SS rankings and found this...

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/end-of-se...ues-shortstops/

 

Just for the record, I never look at fangraphs and know nothing of the site but I did find their rankings to be quite interesting.

 

Perhaps I am under valuing Alexei but I'm coming from the angle of how will he be in the future if I'm a team interested in trading for him. Being 33 he will begin to decline, could be 2015 or a few years from now, we don't know.

 

If one considers these rankings to be pretty close then a case can be made for selling high on Alexei while the Sox can, before regression happens. Unless the Sox plan on sliding him over to 2B/3B in the future or let him walk in FA after the 2016 season.

 

As I said before, this is the year the Sox s*** or get off the pot when it comes to deciding Alexei's future with the team.

 

As for Greene. Yes, he is projected as a #4/#5 starter but the kid has very good downward movement on his fastball and slider hence all the ground balls which is a good thing at the cell. He's also starting to throw a cutter which Coop could help with as well as help with developing a changeup. As of right now, were hoping Noesi can handle the #3 spot in the rotation and in my opinion Greene already has better stuff than Noesi. I'd feel much better with Greene pitching #3 than Noesi and I really like what I saw from Noesi last season and believe he will continue to improve but I still see him as more of pretty damn good #4/#5.

Edited November 15, 2014 by StRoostifer

[LDF]

Well, I've said plenty of times that Alexei's defense is not easy to replace, at least not from within the organization. I did some looking around at SS rankings and found this...

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/end-of-se...ues-shortstops/

 

Just for the record, I never look at fangraphs and know nothing of the site but I did find their rankings to be quite interesting.

 

Perhaps I am under valuing Alexei but I'm coming from the angle of how will he be in the future if I'm a team interested in trading for him. Being 33 he will begin to decline, could be 2015 or a few years from now, we don't know.

 

If one considers these rankings to be pretty close then a case can be made for selling high on Alexei while the Sox can, before regression happens. Unless the Sox plan on sliding him over to 2B/3B in the future or let him walk in FA after the 2016 season.

 

As I said before, this is the year the Sox s*** or get off the pot when it comes to deciding Alexei's future with the team.

 

As for Greene. Yes, he is projected as a #4/#5 starter but the kid has very good downward movement on his fastball and slider hence all the ground balls which is a good thing at the cell. He's also starting to throw a cutter which Coop could help with as well as help with developing a changeup. As of right now, were hoping Noesi can handle the #3 spot in the rotation and in my opinion Greene already has better stuff than Noesi. I'd feel much better with Greene pitching #3 than Noesi and I really like what I saw from Noesi last season and believe he will continue to improve but I still see him as more of pretty damn good #4/#5.

 

hey this is a forum to share opinions. at least you now see what most is saying.

 

always remember, I am always right you everybody is wrong.

[caulfield12]

http://itsaboutthemoney.net/archives/2014/...-in-2015-plans/

 

Do the Yankees need him more than Ramirez?

Edited November 15, 2014 by caulfield12

[Chicago White Sox]

As of right now, were hoping Noesi can handle the #3 spot in the rotation and in my opinion Greene already has better stuff than Noesi. I'd feel much better with Greene pitching #3 than Noesi and I really like what I saw from Noesi last season and believe he will continue to improve but I still see him as more of pretty damn good #4/#5.

Who is hoping Noesi can handle the #3 spot? If he's anything more than our #5 starter next year we're in a lot of trouble.

[BlackSox13]

hey this is a forum to share opinions. at least you now see what most is saying.

 

always remember, I am always right you everybody is wrong.

In a sense, yes. I still believe Alexei is a bit over valued while Greene is under valued. I still take Greene for Alexei straight up. As I said earlier in this thread, I watched plenty of Greene's videos on MLB.com and was impressed. Kid has really good stuff and I think Coop could genuinely help this kid even more.

 

http://itsaboutthemoney.net/archives/2014/...-in-2015-plans/

 

Do the Yankees need him more than Ramirez?

I think the Yanks just might need Greene more than Alexei. The Yanks haven't had very good luck with starting pitching.

Edited November 15, 2014 by StRoostifer

[BlackSox13]

Who is hoping Noesi can handle the #3 spot? If he's anything more than our #5 starter next year we're in a lot of trouble.

Uh, the White Sox and yes, the sox are already in alot of trouble. Right now Noesi is the best bet to be #3.

 

Danks is not the #3, Bassitt is not the #3, Carroll sure as hell is not the #3 and we don't know when Rodon will be ready for a call up much less become the #3 so who do you suggest is the #3?

[Chicago White Sox]

Uh, the White Sox and yes, the sox are already in alot of trouble. Right now Noesi is the best bet to be #3.

 

Danks is not the #3, Bassitt is not the #3, Carroll sure as hell is not the #3 and we don't know when Rodon will be ready for a call up much less become the #3 so who do you suggest is the #3?

Someone who is not on the roster. I can guarantee you that no one in the White Sox front office is hoping Noesi can be a #3 starter next year. They will be adding a starter and preferably one that can be a #3 or better. Noesi, Danks, Rodon, & Bassitt will be in the mix for those last two spots, but no way we go into 2015 with three of them in our rotation short of injury.

[Baron]

Yeah it seems like finding a started is definitely on their list of things to do. I doubt they have Noesi pegged as the #3. Getting what we got from him this past season was reward enough. Let's not push it.

[BlackSox13]

Someone who is not on the roster. I can guarantee you that no one in the White Sox front office is hoping Noesi can be a #3 starter next year. They will be adding a starter and preferably one that can be a #3 or better. Noesi, Danks, Rodon, & Bassitt will be in the mix for those last two spots, but no way we go into 2015 with three of them in our rotation short of injury.

Again, as of right now its Noesi. I'm not counting on the Sox to sign or trade for anyone, that's setting ones self up for a heart break if does not happen. I hold onto hope but by no means am I counting on it. The Sox will not be signing Scherzer, Lester or Shields. McCarthy likely ends up back in NY, Masterson is a train wreck and dare I say I would rather have Danks over Masterson. So that leaves the Sox trading for a potential #3. How many teams can you think of that will actually give up their current #3? What will the cost be prospect wise?

 

 

[LDF]

Again, as of right now its Noesi. I'm not counting on the Sox to sign or trade for anyone, that's setting ones self up for a heart break if does not happen. I hold onto hope but by no means am I counting on it. The Sox will not be signing Scherzer, Lester or Shields. McCarthy likely ends up back in NY, Masterson is a train wreck and dare I say I would rather have Danks over Masterson. So that leaves the Sox trading for a potential #3. How many teams can you think of that will actually give up their current #3? What will the cost be prospect wise?

 

i see your point. you are saying, by default as is, Noesi is prob the #3 pitcher. that in

itself show the position the sox need to address. that should also show that the sox

are in trouble, if Noesi is the team starting #3.

 

then it all comes back to Hahn identifying the needs of the sox and to address them. the

quickest way to fix it is thru free agency.

[BlackSox13]

i see your point. you are saying, by default as is, Noesi is prob the #3 pitcher. that in

itself show the position the sox need to address. that should also show that the sox

are in trouble, if Noesi is the team starting #3.

 

then it all comes back to Hahn identifying the needs of the sox and to address them. the

quickest way to fix it is thru free agency.

Exactly. Noesi is not a #3 but with what the Sox currently have to choose from, sadly, its Noesi. I like Noesi a lot but he's probably a #4 or a really good #5 right now.

 

I would prefer the Sox did grab a pitcher off of the FA market but who? I think the best bet might be Edinson Volquez who supposedly is looking for a 2-3 year deal at 9M per year. Not a long commitment or high cost option which could fit very well for the Sox. In this scenario, a rotation of Sale/ Q/ Volquez/ Rodon/ Noesi would be ideal and Danks traded to never never land (one can dream right?). Slotting Rodon between two guys that are good for 6+ innings will help keep the pen fresh for Rodon's outings.

 

Before I deviate further from topic...

 

I prefer what the Mets have to offer in a trade but if I'm the Mets and I'm considering trading Snydergaard or Wheeler for a SS, I would not be looking to add a 33 year old SS. I would be on the horn with the cubs for a 24 year old named Starlin Castro who would upgrade over Flores and is under team control through the 2019 season and has a team option in 2020. I'm just trying to look at it from the Mets perspective. Its not just about who can help them now but who will be there down the road and if I'm giving up top pitching talent, I want a SS that will help now and the long term which Castro does.

 

This is why I feel a trade with the Yanks is more likely than the Mets, if a trade happens at all. I would prefer Wheeler over Greene but I still think there's more upside to Greene than meets the eye. Greene has sick movement on his FB and slider.

Edited November 16, 2014 by StRoostifer

[caulfield12]

They're unlikely to go after Liriano or Peavy again.

 

You've got Volquez, Hammel, Vogelsong, Masterson, Brett Anderson, Floyd, Josh Johnson that would all be value plays.

 

E. Santana, if they want to pay $10-12 million for three to four years. The argument over Santana has changed a bit since last year, although the odds of adding him with Danks still in the field aren't extremely high.

 

Those guys one year away from fa like price shark and fister could be made available as well between now and midseason.

 

Plus Maeda and Kuroda.

Edited November 16, 2014 by caulfield12

[Dam8610]

They're unlikely to go after Liriano or Peavy again.

 

You've got Volquez, Hammel, Vogelsong, Masterson, Brett Anderson, Floyd, Josh Johnson that would all be value plays.

 

E. Santana, if they want to pay $10-12 million for three to four years. The argument over Santana has changed a bit since last year, although the odds of adding him with Danks still in the field aren't extremely high.

 

Those guys one year away from fa like price shark and fister could be made available as well between now and midseason.

 

Plus Maeda and Kuroda.

 

I like the idea of Santana. Is there a reason no one has mentioned Billingsley?