July 2nd (2015) prospects

[LDF]

And the odds for any of them to make the big leagues....roughly the same as a 4th - 10th round pick, with some obvious exceptions at the very top of the ratings where 80% of the resources are being allocated.

since you are pretty adamant on using stats to backup you statement, pls show me the links of this stat you are using. i normally don't do this, but i am wondering now.

 

you can state the odds of many prospects not making it to the big leagues, so i am thinking, why even bother with getting or selecting these players. then how will you continue to feed the parent team???

 

the point is, the system as is, needs bodies.... you get a lot of bodies, talented bodies and develop them. then comes the hoping that some will become players in the big league.

[caulfield12]

Its very simple....all you have to do is go through the top 30 international prospects lists from the 16-19 year olds in Latin America and look at how many actually made an impact.

 

The total money spent in each signing period, the amount that went to the top 30, how many players had a statistically significant impact, etc.

 

 

 

[LDF]

Its very simple....all you have to do is go through the top 30 international prospects lists from the 16-19 year olds in Latin America and look at how many actually made an impact.

 

The total money spent in each signing period, the amount that went to the top 30, how many players had a statistically significant impact, etc.

 

 

i still do not agree on one part, 16-19 are still developing and the final report card is still not finished.

 

but thanks any ways. i am done on this one post. i was a little snarky and i shouldn't have made this post.

[Boopa1219]

Kiley McDaniel has his July 2 board up now

http://www.fangraphs.com/scoutboard.aspx?d...e=0&pos=all

 

Has Sox tied to Franklin Reyes at projected $1.5m and Fernando Tatis Jr. at $600k.

 

I saw this and while its a shame that the Sox are going to miss out on some guys that they have been linked to and some guys that I would like for them to sign, but I have full confidence that the Sox will get some interesting players.

[Boopa1219]

According to Kiley McDaniel, the top five guys heading into the 2016 cycle are: Kevin Maitan, Abraham Gutierrez, Yasel Antonna, Yerdel Vargas, and Cesar Izturis, with Maitan, Gutierrez and Antonna being the definitive top three. He adds that all five of these guys should be paid in the $2.5M to the $5M range and that three of these players already have deals in place, but he will not name the teams.

 

The Cubs, Yankees, Dodgers, Royals, Rays, Angels, Red Sox, Diamondbacks are certainly going to be in the red and not be able to sign a player for over $300,00K for the 2016 cycle (Ben Badler said that there will be ten teams in the red).

 

McDaniel also said that, "There are already rumors of a few teams getting agreements in place for top 2016 players in an effort to blow past their pool in the last year before the CBA expires...". Maybe the Sox are one of these teams, it wouldn't surprise me in the least, but you never know.

[Chicago White Sox]

Kiley McDaniel has his July 2 board up now

http://www.fangraphs.com/scoutboard.aspx?d...e=0&pos=all

 

Has Sox tied to Franklin Reyes at projected $1.5m and Fernando Tatis Jr. at $600k.

I know these rankings are fairly meaningless, but it's still a bit sad that the best guy we are linked to is ranked #31 despite having one of the larger budgets. Really shows how behind the times this front office is, as most of the premier organizations are blowing past their caps and realizing the penalties because they still come out ahead. IMO, this is no different than when the Sox wouldn't go over the recommended slots in the draft and passed on high-end talents.

[LDF]

I saw this and while its a shame that the Sox are going to miss out on some guys that they have been linked to and some guys that I would like for them to sign, but I have full confidence that the Sox will get some interesting players.

well, for me, i do not have confidence in the sox esp when it comes to money spending. there is not enuf yrs of change to keeping remembering the yrs of disaster since 2000.

[Boopa1219]

I know these rankings are fairly meaningless, but it's still a bit sad that the best guy we are linked to is ranked #31 despite having one of the larger budgets. Really shows how behind the times this front office is, as most of the premier organizations are blowing past their caps and realizing the penalties because they still come out ahead. IMO, this is no different than when the Sox wouldn't go over the recommended slots in the draft and passed on high-end talents.

 

That's a ridiculous and stupid thing to say IMO.

 

Screw what the rankings say, it only matters how the Sox view and evaluate a player. Reyes might be ranked #31 but he's signing for $1.5M so there had to be some serious interest from other teams, guys ranked that low by publications don't get typically get bonuses over a million dollars. Reyes might be #31 on the list but none of us know how the Sox or other teams ranked him on their big boards.

 

Its also worth pointing out that you dont know who else the Sox are going to sign, they like to spread their money around. Look in 2013 when they signed Micker for $1.6M and signed (I believe) 3 or 4 more players to bounuses over 300K. Last year's class is a prime example of that too.

 

I wouldn't compare amateur scouting in Latin America to the draft, July 2nd is basically a pissing contest between scouts as they try to out-scout one another. Look around MLB and check out all the quality, contributing Latin players (with the exceptions of the Cuban players) and tell me how many were signed to large bonuses, not very many.

 

Overspending on July 2nd can really set an organization back, as you cant sign a player for over 300K for one or two years, KW said that when he hired Marco Paddy, he wanted to establish a pipeline that would constantly pump talent into the system, you cant really pump talent into the system when you can't sign any of the 'top guys'.

 

I'm going to stop before my pacemaker zaps me.

 

(Mic drop)

[Boopa1219]

well, for me, i do not have confidence in the sox esp when it comes to money spending. there is not enuf yrs of change to keeping remembering the yrs of disaster since 2000.

 

The Sox INTL dept. has spent the fifth most money since the new CBA came into effect, which is impressive when you consider that they don't overspend. So they spend every dollar that they have available to them, its even more impressive when you have teams like the Yankees, Cubs amd Dodgers going over every chance they get.

 

I know that this has been a disappointing season, but there some things that the team does well and this is one of them.

[LDF]

That's a ridiculous and stupid thing to say IMO.

 

Screw what the rankings say, it only matters how the Sox view and evaluate a player. Reyes might be ranked #31 but he's signing for $1.5M so there had to be some serious interest from other teams, guys ranked that low by publications don't get typically get bonuses over a million dollars. Reyes might be #31 on the list but none of us know how the Sox or other teams ranked him on their big boards.

 

Its also worth pointing out that you dont know who else the Sox are going to sign, they like to spread their money around. Look in 2013 when they signed Micker for $1.6M and signed (I believe) 3 or 4 more players to bounuses over 300K. Last year's class is a prime example of that too.

 

I wouldn't compare amateur scouting in Latin America to the draft, July 2nd is basically a pissing contest between scouts as they try to out-scout one another. Look around MLB and check out all the quality, contributing Latin players (with the exceptions of the Cuban players) and tell me how many were signed to large bonuses, not very many.

 

Overspending on July 2nd can really set an organization back, as you cant sign a player for over 300K for one or two years, KW said that when he hired Marco Paddy, he wanted to establish a pipeline that would constantly pump talent into the system, you cant really pump talent into the system when you can't sign any of the 'top guys'.

 

I'm going to stop before my pacemaker zaps me.

 

(Mic drop)

 

re bold, i disagree, it will give a system a sudden influx of players, whether they all develop as hope is another thing. but the system will have, as i said, influx of good players.

 

then for the next 2 yrs after, they still will be able to sign players, granted with a much lower pool money. in addition this whole int't draft is changing.

[Chicago White Sox]

That's a ridiculous and stupid thing to say IMO.

 

Screw what the rankings say, it only matters how the Sox view and evaluate a player. Reyes might be ranked #31 but he's signing for $1.5M so there had to be some serious interest from other teams, guys ranked that low by publications don't get typically get bonuses over a million dollars. Reyes might be #31 on the list but none of us know how the Sox or other teams ranked him on their big boards.

 

Its also worth pointing out that you dont know who else the Sox are going to sign, they like to spread their money around. Look in 2013 when they signed Micker for $1.6M and signed (I believe) 3 or 4 more players to bounuses over 300K. Last year's class is a prime example of that too.

 

I wouldn't compare amateur scouting in Latin America to the draft, July 2nd is basically a pissing contest between scouts as they try to out-scout one another. Look around MLB and check out all the quality, contributing Latin players (with the exceptions of the Cuban players) and tell me how many were signed to large bonuses, not very many.

 

Overspending on July 2nd can really set an organization back, as you cant sign a player for over 300K for one or two years, KW said that when he hired Marco Paddy, he wanted to establish a pipeline that would constantly pump talent into the system, you cant really pump talent into the system when you can't sign any of the 'top guys'.

 

I'm going to stop before my pacemaker zaps me.

 

(Mic drop)

Wow, you are a comedian on top of being a professional scout and screenwriter. How did you come up with that "mic drop" zinger? Such a creative and original rip, wouldn't expect anything less from a dude as talented as yourself.

 

Let me say I disagree with almost your entire post. Already said the ranking are pretty meaningless, so I guess we agree on one thing (even though you ignored that point). And a $1.5M bonus is nice, but nowhere near the value it was back when we signed Micker. So perhaps this guy isn't the 30th ranked player, he's still not a top 10 prospect if you go by projected bonus size. Regardless, there are a bunch teams grabbing multiple guys in or above this bonus range. Despite our overall budget, we are getting less of the high-end talent than our competition. You talk about spreading our money to multiple guys, but a lot of teams are doing the same thing but to a much greater extent by simply spending more.

 

And I understand the differences between the draft and international free agency. Your essentially buying a bunch of lottery tickets and the goal is to buy as many as possible to increase your odds of hitting on a couple. That's exactly why you blow past your cap, sign as many as possible, and then endure your penalties for a year or two. You can still sign lower-end talent during that time. If done correctly, you can ultimately add more talent over the course of three years through this method than by staying within your cap limits. There is a reason why most of the smarter organizations are taking advantage of this loophole. And this doesn't account for the fact that an international draft is looming and these penalties may ultimately be meaningless in year or two.

 

Once again, we are behind our competition on a popular loophole. First was with the draft and refusing to go overslot despite there being no penalties, most likely due to Reinsdorf's ethics and loyalty to Bud Selig. Now we're seeing it with a refusal to go above our international cap limit. I hope Hahn proves me wrong and goes out and gets a Eddy Martinez type, because our competition is finding creative ways to infuse talent into their systems and we are not.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Chicago White Sox

[Balta1701]

The Sox INTL dept. has spent the fifth most money since the new CBA came into effect, which is impressive when you consider that they don't overspend. So they spend every dollar that they have available to them, its even more impressive when you have teams like the Yankees, Cubs amd Dodgers going over every chance they get.

 

I know that this has been a disappointing season, but there some things that the team does well and this is one of them.

OF course, that also means that they're below .500 and getting large available bonus pools every single year.

[caulfield12]

OF course, that also means that they're below .500 and getting large available bonus pools every single year.

 

Assuming the Red Sox with Moncada are the other, would be interested in seeing the rest of the top ten and determining if they're just big market spenders or teams with mostly losing records during that time frame.

 

LA Angels and Texas?

 

What's interesting is you don't often see the Cards, Braves, Rays blowing away anyone with their spending (in this area) but somehow they must be doing something right. Or SF.

 

Even the A's, for example, threw out big money for Cespedes and Michael Ynoa, although Yoenis was over 23. You pretty much have to be a player in this intl game or the game will eat you alive.

Edited June 28, 2015 by caulfield12

[LDF]

Assuming the Red Sox with Moncada are the other, would be interested in seeing the rest of the top ten and determining if they're just big market spenders or teams with mostly losing records during that time frame.

 

LA Angels and Texas?

 

What's interesting is you don't often see the Cards, Braves, Rays blowing away anyone with their spending (in this area) but somehow they must be doing something right. Or SF.

 

Even the A's, for example, threw out big money for Cespedes and Michael Ynoa, although Yoenis was over 23. You pretty much have to be a player in this intl game or the game will eat you alive.

 

b/c it is sooo simple, they have competent men in the FO who knows how to draft, other men in the coaching dept who knows how to coach.

[LDF]

Wow, you are a comedian on top of being a professional scout and screenwriter. How did you come up with that "mic drop" zinger? Such a creative and original rip, wouldn't expect anything less from a dude as talented as yourself.

 

Let me say I disagree with almost your entire post. Already said the ranking are pretty meaningless, so I guess we agree on one thing (even though you ignored that point). And a $1.5M bonus is nice, but nowhere near the value it was back when we signed Micker. So perhaps this guy isn't the 30th ranked player, he's still not a top 10 prospect if you go by projected bonus size. Regardless, there are a bunch teams grabbing multiple guys in or above this bonus range. Despite our overall budget, we are getting less of the high-end talent than our competition. You talk about spreading our money to multiple guys, but a lot of teams are doing the same thing but to a much greater extent by simply spending more.

 

And I understand the differences between the draft and international free agency. Your essentially buying a bunch of lottery tickets and the goal is to buy as many as possible to increase your odds of hitting on a couple. That's exactly why you blow past your cap, sign as many as possible, and then endure your penalties for a year or two. You can still sign lower-end talent during that time. If done correctly, you can ultimately add more talent over the course of three years through this method than by staying within your cap limits. There is a reason why most of the smarter organizations are taking advantage of this loophole. And this doesn't account for the fact that an international draft is looming and these penalties may ultimately be meaningless in year or two.

 

Once again, we are behind our competition on a popular loophole. First was with the draft and refusing to go overslot despite there being no penalties, most likely due to Reinsdorf's ethics and loyalty to Bud Selig. Now we're seeing it with a refusal to go above our international cap limit. I hope Hahn proves me wrong and goes out and gets a Eddy Martinez type, because our competition is finding creative ways to infuse talent into their systems and we are not.

 

excellent through post. i disagree with the bolded. you and many think it is ethics etc... i think it is for an excuse not to spend money. with limits establish, all the owners of the sox has to do is point to the limit and say, we are following the rules. in other words not spending money that they don't have too.

[LDF]

I am sure messageboard posters on a Chicago White Sox board have no idea how the team has fared over the last few years. It's great that we have Balta to remind us every few posts.

whether you are like many are upset about the subject of incompetence in the sox org, starting with the permission from the owners. it reminds me of this plan of accepting less than what can be describe as acceptance of failure.

 

these changes need to be brought up, to yell it from every sports forum. maybe just maybe others will fully accept the fans displeasure and just maybe the owners will do something then. of course, the owners will care about their money coming in. max the profit margin.

 

my question is why isn't other posters not voicing their displeasure as well?? are many posters willing to embrace the so called of help is coming??

[maggsmaggs]

That's a ridiculous and stupid thing to say IMO.

 

Screw what the rankings say, it only matters how the Sox view and evaluate a player. Reyes might be ranked #31 but he's signing for $1.5M so there had to be some serious interest from other teams, guys ranked that low by publications don't get typically get bonuses over a million dollars. Reyes might be #31 on the list but none of us know how the Sox or other teams ranked him on their big boards.

 

Its also worth pointing out that you dont know who else the Sox are going to sign, they like to spread their money around. Look in 2013 when they signed Micker for $1.6M and signed (I believe) 3 or 4 more players to bounuses over 300K. Last year's class is a prime example of that too.

 

I wouldn't compare amateur scouting in Latin America to the draft, July 2nd is basically a pissing contest between scouts as they try to out-scout one another. Look around MLB and check out all the quality, contributing Latin players (with the exceptions of the Cuban players) and tell me how many were signed to large bonuses, not very many.

 

Overspending on July 2nd can really set an organization back, as you cant sign a player for over 300K for one or two years, KW said that when he hired Marco Paddy, he wanted to establish a pipeline that would constantly pump talent into the system, you cant really pump talent into the system when you can't sign any of the 'top guys'.

 

I'm going to stop before my pacemaker zaps me.

 

(Mic drop)

Do you have confidence in the White Sox evaluating players? I don't. I haven't see anything from this organization over the last decade to believe they are good talent evaluators. Now, a lot of the Latin American evaluation was stunted because of the Wilder Scandal. But I won't give this organization the benefit of the doubt until I see talent emerged from Latin America.

 

[Balta1701]

Do you have confidence in the White Sox evaluating players? I don't. I haven't see anything from this organization over the last decade to believe they are good talent evaluators. Now, a lot of the Latin American evaluation was stunted because of the Wilder Scandal. But I won't give this organization the benefit of the doubt until I see talent emerged from Latin America.

An important note here though is that when you're signing 15-16 year old latin american kids, it could be a decade before they hit the big leagues and they'd still be pretty young. The new setup started in the 2013 signing season right? Even if we did everything right, it could be 4-5 years before we start really seeing anything out of that setup from the first couple years. Regardless of whether or not we're able to develop these players, that's got to be kept in mind for evaluating the White Sox and the international signing work.

[LDF]

An important note here though is that when you're signing 15-16 year old latin american kids, it could be a decade before they hit the big leagues and they'd still be pretty young. The new setup started in the 2013 signing season right? Even if we did everything right, it could be 4-5 years before we start really seeing anything out of that setup from the first couple years. Regardless of whether or not we're able to develop these players, that's got to be kept in mind for evaluating the White Sox and the international signing work.

 

and in this way of someone explaining a point that i have been trying to for the last several months.

 

man it is much easier to read it this way, instead of my script.

 

let me also say it this way, at least 4 yrs before the org gets to see anything positive from a venture of overspending on a particular yr of over spending.

 

the team goes thru several yrs of additional players movement, with the understanding that the strongest unknown group of prospects are in some way, uncounted.

 

at the time, either the parent team has won and continue to win some penchants or will be in the running to do so when the group of extra prospects will ready to make a name for themselves.

 

btw, of that, hopefully a couple of those prospects will really develop.

 

this will be an exciting time, when all plays out. that is if they can see it.

[Boopa1219]

Wow, you are a comedian on top of being a professional scout and screenwriter. How did you come up with that "mic drop" zinger? Such a creative and original rip, wouldn't expect anything less from a dude as talented as yourself.

 

Let me say I disagree with almost your entire post. Already said the ranking are pretty meaningless, so I guess we agree on one thing (even though you ignored that point). And a $1.5M bonus is nice, but nowhere near the value it was back when we signed Micker. So perhaps this guy isn't the 30th ranked player, he's still not a top 10 prospect if you go by projected bonus size. Regardless, there are a bunch teams grabbing multiple guys in or above this bonus range. Despite our overall budget, we are getting less of the high-end talent than our competition. You talk about spreading our money to multiple guys, but a lot of teams are doing the same thing but to a much greater extent by simply spending more.

 

And I understand the differences between the draft and international free agency. Your essentially buying a bunch of lottery tickets and the goal is to buy as many as possible to increase your odds of hitting on a couple. That's exactly why you blow past your cap, sign as many as possible, and then endure your penalties for a year or two. You can still sign lower-end talent during that time. If done correctly, you can ultimately add more talent over the course of three years through this method than by staying within your cap limits. There is a reason why most of the smarter organizations are taking advantage of this loophole. And this doesn't account for the fact that an international draft is looming and these penalties may ultimately be meaningless in year or two.

 

Once again, we are behind our competition on a popular loophole. First was with the draft and refusing to go overslot despite there being no penalties, most likely due to Reinsdorf's ethics and loyalty to Bud Selig. Now we're seeing it with a refusal to go above our international cap limit. I hope Hahn proves me wrong and goes out and gets a Eddy Martinez type, because our competition is finding creative ways to infuse talent into their systems and we are not.

 

I am pretty far for being a professional scout, like light years away, not even close. Its an insult to the real guys to call me that but lets get back to your post.......

 

What's creative about overspending? Its not about how much cash you drop ,its about development. And just because a guy is getting a big bonus, dosent mean he's (or she's) a good player. Teams like the Cubs are willing to overspend on guys like Ademan, because they want to make sure that they get him into their system. They already committed to going over the penalty line, so whats the point of being conversative when your goal is to sign as many players as possible. Look at the Yankees last year, they signed lots of guys to deals over $1M, not because they valued x player at that way based on talent but because they wanted to guarantee that he would be wearing pinstripes.

 

And not most of the smarter orgs are doing this, its the guys with the big wallets. Its the Cubs, its the Yankees, its the Dodgers, etc., not everybody is afforded this luxury. And if you ask me, it shouldn't even be a possibility. I'm sure the team would love to go way overslot and spend like $30M like the Yankees, but it's not realistic for them.

 

So please calm down and relax.

 

x Zinger

 

[LDF]

I am pretty far for being a professional scout, like light years away, not even close. Its an insult to the real guys to call me that but lets get back to your post.......

 

What's creative about overspending? Its not about how much cash you drop ,its about development. And just because a guy is getting a big bonus, dosent mean he's (or she's) a good player. Teams like the Cubs are willing to overspend on guys like Ademan, because they want to make sure that they get him into their system. They already committed to going over the penalty line, so whats the point of being conversative when your goal is to sign as many players as possible. Look at the Yankees last year, they signed lots of guys to deals over $1M, not because they valued x player at that way based on talent but because they wanted to guarantee that he would be wearing pinstripes.

 

And not most of the smarter orgs are doing this, its the guys with the big wallets. Its the Cubs, its the Yankees, its the Dodgers, etc., not everybody is afforded this luxury. And if you ask me, it shouldn't even be a possibility. I'm sure the team would love to go way overslot and spend like $30M like the Yankees, but it's not realistic for them.

 

So please calm down and relax.

 

x Zinger

 

you are slightly wrong on this. the yanks and the sCrubs over spent b/c they had a big hole in the systems of not having bodies to develop. the yanks even said that several times before the draft.

 

i am saying to over spend, b/c of the same excuse that has been used, b/c of lack of bodies, bodies that may develop in 4+yrs. to help the future of the org.

[Y2Jimmy0]

you are slightly wrong on this. the yanks and the sCrubs over spent b/c they had a big hole in the systems of not having bodies to develop. the yanks even said that several times before the draft.

 

i am saying to over spend, b/c of the same excuse that has been used, b/c of lack of bodies, bodies that may develop in 4+yrs. to help the future of the org.

 

 

I hope they don't overspend this year though. Ideally, they'll go nuts next year because I think the system will be different in 2017.

[caulfield12]

I hope they don't overspend this year though. Ideally, they'll go nuts next year because I think the system will be different in 2017.

 

 

The Yankees were/are just getting old, almost all their everyday position players. They had no choice but to bring in fresh blood.

 

With the Cubs, it's more about that philosophy and the "niche exploitation" of the rules...they have PLENTY of position prospects (and added Eloy Jimenez, the #1 guy) simply because they want to build up enough talent/surplus they can use all of them to fix gaps in the pitching staff at the major league level.

 

They will strike again in July/August simply because they're in a good position for the wild card and they have that surplus to trade from.

 

And maybe the "insider knowledge" of impending rules changes, and the fact that now's as good a time as any to overspend in one particular year if they have the connections with those players and their agents...or the Red Sox with Rusney Castillo and Moncada.

 

 

Same thing with the Dodgers, it's just a numbers game with guys like Puig, Guerrero, Arruebarruena and Hector Olivera. Throw enough talent and dollars at a problem, eventually the law of averages dictates some of it will stick.

Edited June 29, 2015 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

Now what will be interesting here is teams like Houston, the Cubs, Dodgers, etc are going to start seeing some roster crunches as all of this volume of signings starts to move through there systems. Where the White Sox excel is by identifying guys who fall through the cracks, and then grabbing them for pennies on the dollar.

[LDF]

The Yankees were/are just getting old, almost all their everyday position players. They had no choice but to bring in fresh blood.

 

With the Cubs, it's more about that philosophy and the "niche exploitation" of the rules...they have PLENTY of position prospects (and added Eloy Jimenez, the #1 guy) simply because they want to build up enough talent/surplus they can use all of them to fix gaps in the pitching staff at the major league level.

 

They will strike again in July/August simply because they're in a good position for the wild card and they have that surplus to trade from.

 

And maybe the "insider knowledge" of impending rules changes, and the fact that now's as good a time as any to overspend in one particular year if they have the connections with those players and their agents...or the Red Sox with Rusney Castillo and Moncada.

 

 

Same thing with the Dodgers, it's just a numbers game with guys like Puig, Guerrero, Arruebarruena and Hector Olivera. Throw enough talent and dollars at a problem, eventually the law of averages dictates some of it will stick.

 

and think about it and substitute the Sox in that scenario. the sox can rebuild the system. this is or will be the best the system has been since the 90's. can you really imagine, the sox has a viable surplus of minor leaguers that will feed the parent club?

 

what can't the sox upper management understand with this reasoning???