Brewers nearing deal for Lind

[TheFutureIsNear]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/11/astr...-adam-lind.html

 

Well there goes 1 option for our LH DH option.

[caulfield12]

That's why the possibility of adding $35-50 million in new salary is pretty unrealistic...unless they agree to take on another bad contract (in addition to danks) like ethier or josh Hamilton, etc.

[fathom]

Nice deal for Milwaukee. Should be fun seeing Estrada give up a ton of homers in the AL.

[BlackSox13]

I would have guessed Lind could bring a better return than Estrada. Shows how little I know.

[GGajewski18]

That Milwaukee line up could be very dangerous, especially if Aramis stays.

 

Gennett

Gomez

Braun

Lind

Lucroy

Ramirez

Davis

Segura

Pitcher

 

That's a very good line up.

[TheFutureIsNear]

I would have guessed Lind could bring a better return than Estrada. Shows how little I know.

 

A little frustrating to see him go for that little and not end up in our line up honestly. He would have been damn near perfect for the middle of our lineup.

[Vance Law]

I would have guessed Lind could bring a better return than Estrada. Shows how little I know.

 

Me too. I guess the good thing about Estrada is he's cheap. Trying to figure out who the comparable Sox player would be, and I suppose Noesi. They had similar numbers last year, though Estrada has more of a track record. Interesting that Toronto wants to bring to the Rogers Centre the guy who lead the league in giving up homers.

[GreenSox]

Me too. I guess the good thing about Estrada is he's cheap. Trying to figure out who the comparable Sox player would be, and I suppose Noesi. They had similar numbers last year, though Estrada has more of a track record. Interesting that Toronto wants to bring to the Rogers Centre the guy who lead the league in giving up homers.

Plus, Estrada's a rent himself I think.

Looks like a giveaway job to me. Toronto just made sure to get him out of the AL

[BlackSox13]

That Milwaukee line up could be very dangerous, especially if Aramis stays.

 

Gennett

Gomez

Braun

Lind

Lucroy

Ramirez

Davis

Segura

Pitcher

 

That's a very good line up.

Yes it is.

 

A little frustrating to see him go for that little and not end up in our line up honestly. He would have been damn near perfect for the middle of our lineup.

 

 

Me too. I guess the good thing about Estrada is he's cheap. Trying to figure out who the comparable Sox player would be, and I suppose Noesi. They had similar numbers last year, though Estrada has more of a track record. Interesting that Toronto wants to bring to the Rogers Centre the guy who lead the league in giving up homers.

I agree guys. The only thing I can think of is maybe Toronto wanted a player the Sox were not willing to give up. I look at Estrada's numbers and think, really?

[GreenSox]

If the Sox wanted him, it really wouldn't have been hard to exceed what the Brewers offered. The Jays with moving Lind, rumors of MB on the block, counting on Smoak yet still wanting to bring him to arbitration - they may be going on the cheap again.

 

Lind was purely a platoon hitter last year. That may be a reason Sox might not have been interested.

[Balta1701]

If the Sox wanted him, it really wouldn't have been hard to exceed what the Brewers offered. The Jays with moving Lind, rumors of MB on the block, counting on Smoak yet still wanting to bring him to arbitration - they may be going on the cheap again.

 

Lind was purely a platoon hitter last year. That may be a reason Sox might not have been interested.

There have been several reports that the Blue Jays want to keep Melky Cabrera but they are close to tapped out on salary with the big deals they have & couldn't make anything long term for Cabreroid work unless they cleared some money.

[GreenSox]

There have been several reports that the Blue Jays want to keep Melky Cabrera but they are close to tapped out on salary with the big deals they have & couldn't make anything long term for Cabreroid work unless they cleared some money.

Makes sense.

That would explain things.

 

[Y2Jimmy0]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 5m5 minutes ago

Sources: #WhiteSox were other team on Lind, but weren’t willing to give up much. #BlueJays’ best offer was from #Brewers.

0 replies 44 retweets 20 favorites

Reply Retweet44 Favorite20

 

 

Sox did want Lind. Wouldn't give up anything apparently.

[Vance Law]

Brewers were perhaps the team with the most clear need for an upgrade at 1B. Meaning the market for VMart, LaRoche, Butler, and Morales is pretty much down to

 

-White Sox

-Tigers

-Royals

-Mariners

-Rangers

 

edit: obviously, trades could occur putting other teams in this group as well

Edited November 1, 2014 by Vance Law

[BlackSox13]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 5m5 minutes ago

Sources: #WhiteSox were other team on Lind, but weren’t willing to give up much. #BlueJays’ best offer was from #Brewers.

0 replies 44 retweets 20 favorites

Reply Retweet44 Favorite20

 

 

Sox did want Lind. Wouldn't give up anything apparently.

I think this shows the Sox realize VMart isn't much of an option for them given his age, expected annual salary, possible contract length and draft pick compensation going to the Tigers. Don't get those hopes up Sox fans.

 

I think this also that taking the best offer for Lind this early in the off season shows how hard Toronto wants to get an extension done with Melky.

[Vance Law]

I think this shows the Sox realize VMart isn't much of an option for them given his age, expected annual salary, possible contract length and draft pick compensation going to the Tigers.

 

Huh? Not trading for Lind shows the Sox don't want to spend money on Martinez?

[Chicago White Sox]

If Lind could've been had that cheaply and we passed, it seriously suggests that we're either going after Martinez to be the full-time DH or we're looking at using a rotating DH with guys that have some defensive ability.

 

Honestly, as good as Lind is against RHP, I'm glad we passed on him. Too early in the offseason to settle on a platoon type as our starting DH.

[BigHurt3515]

Brewers were perhaps the team with the most clear need for an upgrade at 1B. Meaning the market for VMart, LaRoche, Butler, and Morales is pretty much down to

 

-White Sox

-Tigers

-Royals

-Mariners

-Rangers

 

edit: obviously, trades could occur putting other teams in this group as well

 

We don't need an upgrade at 1st. We need an upgrade at DH with a guy who can play 1st 10-15 times a year maybe.. And I think Gillaspie can play 1st

[Chicago White Sox]

Huh? Not trading for Lind shows the Sox don't want to spend money on Martinez?

Yeah, I'm not sure how that reasoning came about. In fact, as I just posted, I think it suggests the opposite. The Sox don't want to settle for Lind right now when a guy like Martinez is still available.

[Vance Law]

We don't need an upgrade at 1st. We need an upgrade at DH with a guy who can play 1st 10-15 times a year maybe.. And I think Gillaspie can play 1st

 

I was using 1B/DH interchangeably. Teams with the most clear need at 1B or DH. Those players can only play 1B or DH. You couldn't possibly have thought I was suggesting we needed to upgrade from Abreu with one of those players.

[GreenSox]

We don't need an upgrade at 1st. We need an upgrade at DH with a guy who can play 1st 10-15 times a year maybe.. And I think Gillaspie can play 1st

But we do need an upgrade at LF; and at 3B (at least defensively and really offensively too).

We could get a couple of OF and have them rotate through DH.

Who knows.

Edited November 1, 2014 by GreenSox

[BlackSox13]

Huh? Not trading for Lind shows the Sox don't want to spend money on Martinez?

The Sox having interest and attempting to trade for Lind,IMO, shows they may not have as good of a chance in signing VMart as writers and fans may think. Like I said, VMart is almost 36, speculated to be looking for a 3-4 year deal at around or close to 20M annually and draft compensation going to a division rival. Realistically, VMart does not make much sense at all. I doubt very seriously the Sox sign him and in fact d be shocked if they did. Again, don't get your hopes up Sox fans.

 

I must admit, the sadistic side of me is looking forward to all the JR is cheap comments after VMart signs elsewhere. Too many fans believe everything they read in the papers and on the net.

[Vance Law]

But we do need an upgrade at LF; and at 3B (at least defensively and really offensively too).

We could get a couple of OF and have them rotate through DH.

Who knows.

 

To clarify once again the list of teams and 1B/DH free agents I posted earlier. Those are the top 4 free agent players of that type. The teams I listed (and perhaps Orioles if they lose Cruz) are pretty much the only logical landing spots for those players. Conclusion: if the Sox want one of the top 2 there (Martinez, LaRoche) there's not a ton of competition, and few teams with the kind of payroll flexibility we have.

 

Totally separate issue- with regards to the above comment of Sox needing an offensive upgrade at 3B, I'd recommend for anybody who thinks along those lines- take a look at what league average is nowadays. League average for 3rd basemen. League average for other positions as well. They are not the same as when you first started paying attention to such things. They are not the same as 10 years ago, or 5 years ago, or 3 years ago. American League average OPS from the 3B spot was .701 this year. Gillaspie was #10 in MLB in OPS for 3B, tied for #9 in OBP.

Edited November 1, 2014 by Vance Law

[Vance Law]

The Sox having interest and attempting to trade for Lind,IMO, shows they may not have as good of a chance in signing VMart as writers and fans may think. Like I said, VMart is almost 36, speculated to be looking for a 3-4 year deal at around or close to 20M annually and draft compensation going to a division rival. Realistically, VMart does not make much sense at all. I doubt very seriously the Sox sign him and in fact d be shocked if they did. Again, don't get your hopes up Sox fans.

 

I must admit, the sadistic side of me is looking forward to all the JR is cheap comments after VMart signs elsewhere. Too many fans believe everything they read in the papers and on the net.

 

I see what you're saying, but I don't think that's the most likely conclusion to draw. You might be right that they don't intend to target Martinez, or are not willing to pay the price it will ultimately cost to get him. I don't think you can infer that from the Lind trade. To me, the fact that the Sox weren't willing to beat Estrada in a trade offer implies either:

 

1) They're going after a potentially better target. On the FA market I'd say that includes, I'd say, VMart, Cruz, LaRoche (he and Lind comparable but he costs nothing in trade).

 

or

 

2) The years don't line up. Sox intend to target someone that'll provide value for more than 2 years

 

or

 

3) They intend to utilize some strategy other than a mainly full time DH. Some mix and match combo of outfielder(s) from free agency/trade and internal options like Gillaspie, Garcia, Abreu, and (perhaps) Viciedo.

 

 

We also don't know the intensity of their interest in Lind, and whether or not they had some other plan or various potential plans, and then Lind became available and at such a reasonable cost that they simply had to explore it. More than one way to skin a cat.

[BlackSox13]

I see what you're saying, but I don't think that's the most likely conclusion to draw. You might be right that they don't intend to target Martinez, or are not willing to pay the price it will ultimately cost to get him. I don't think you can infer that from the Lind trade. To me, the fact that the Sox weren't willing to beat Estrada in a trade offer implies either:

 

1) They're going after a potentially better target. On the FA market I'd say that includes, I'd say, VMart, Cruz, LaRoche (he and Lind comparable but he costs nothing in trade).

 

or

 

2) The years don't line up. Sox intend to target someone that'll provide value for more than 2 years

 

or

 

3) They intend to utilize some strategy other than a mainly full time DH. Some mix and match combo of outfielder(s) from free agency/trade and internal options like Gillaspie, Garcia, Abreu, and (perhaps) Viciedo.

 

 

We also don't know the intensity of their interest in Lind, and whether or not they had some other plan or various potential plans, and then Lind became available and at such a reasonable cost that they simply had to explore it. More than one way to skin a cat.

Its quite possible the Sox were simply kicking the tires on Lind since he was being shopped. IMO, there was genuine interest from the Sox but the Jays wanted someone (Noesi) the Sox were unwilling to part with. Just a stab in the dark on my part.

 

I think your option #3 is likely what we see next year. It would allow more flexibility for lineups and help keep the outfielders legs a little more fresh.

 

I can't believe I'm going to say this but a guy like Carl Crawford could fit into the #3 scenario. Lefty bat that hits for average, a little pop, still an effective base stealer and plays a good LF. Crawford would benefit from the rotating OF/DH and hopefully stay healthy. LA is looking to shed payroll, the Sox have plenty of room and need for a LF, so as long as LA was willing to send money it could be a fit. Then maybe try to sign Headley to play 3B and either use Conor in the role LaRoche would be used or trade him. There would still be room to sign a few relievers.

 

In this example the Sox do not give up draft pick compensation by signing Headley, and do not trade away any key minor leaguers by acquiring a guy like Crawford while still having money to spend elsewhere to fill another hole or two.

 

Just an attempt to think outside the box.