Victor Martinez Re-signs with Tigers

[LittleHurt05]

Well, the difference is they have 6-7 options for the final spot in the rotation.

 

The White Sox have Rodon, and then:

 

Bassitt, who would actually prefer to be a reliever

Beck, who can't strike anyone out and looks to be a long man or pen piece for now

Montas, who is more likely to become closer out of necessity

Danish, who's unlikely to be in the Sox rotation plans until 2016 or 2017

 

 

Right now, it's going to be either Carroll or Bassitt unless they sign someone or make a trade.

 

That final spot is actually replacing James Shields and his 227 IP of low 3 ERA baseball. You can't expect a youngster to pitch that many innings, let alone with such a low ERA. That automatically leads to more innings out of the bullpen, which was their strong suit. And if you pick one of those 6/7 options, there's no guarantee he succeeds. Then how many starts do you give him? Who goes next? I'm not putting the White Sox above them, but they do have some questions marks heading into the season.

[Eminor3rd]

Why is Victor Martinez perfect for the Royals, but for the White Sox he would be nothing but a bad contract?

 

Because the Royals are substantially better than the White Sox and are very obviously ready to contend next year.

[southsider2k5]

The Red Sox (if they spend a mint on free agents), Orioles (if they keep Cruz and Markakis and continue to improve the rotation), Angels and possibly the Tigers (depending on what happens with Victor and Scherzer) all will be favored over the Royals at the start of 2015.

 

A lot depends on Richards' time frame for the Angels...but it wouldn't be a shock to see Las Vegas betting line setters favor the Angels over the Royals even if Richards isn't projected back until mid-season.

 

 

After 29 years of drought, nobody in KC actually has the brazenness to expect the World Series again in 2015.

 

I can't wait to see the meltdown in KC if they try to pretend they didn't go the World Series last year.

[southsider2k5]

That final spot is actually replacing James Shields and his 227 IP of low 3 ERA baseball. You can't expect a youngster to pitch that many innings, let alone with such a low ERA. That automatically leads to more innings out of the bullpen, which was their strong suit. And if you pick one of those 6/7 options, there's no guarantee he succeeds. Then how many starts do you give him? Who goes next? I'm not putting the White Sox above them, but they do have some questions marks heading into the season.

 

It really is that simple too. I don't get how this is even up for debate.

[Dick Allen]

He did have a point where he notes that people are counting on Rodon to do the same thing for us in order for the Sox to be competitive next year.

Rodon was the 3rd pick. Finnegan the 17th. Rodon is by far the more decorated prospect. Finnegan has 34 innings as a pro. Banking on him being a big part of a playoff rotation is a bit crazy.

[Eminor3rd]

They can be, it's just less likely.

 

I continue to think that Victor's production will not match his contract, but if I had to pick one year of the next four where it will, it's 2015. That's the most important year for the Royals. The most important year for the Sox is 2016, or maybe later. "Bad contract for Sox = bad contract for Royals" makes sense in a vacuum, but all 30 teams are in a different situation, and I'll just say that Victor wouldn't be as bad a deal for KC.

 

And just for the record, I do not want Butler, and I do not think the Royals will sign Martinez

 

This is it precisely.

[Eminor3rd]

Rodon was the 3rd pick. Finnegan the 17th. Rodon is by far the more decorated prospect. Finnegan has 34 innings as a pro. Banking on him being a big part of a playoff rotation is a bit crazy.

 

Also, starting is SO different than throwing as hard as you can for a couple innings at a time against guys who have never seen video on you.

 

Also, caulfield is WAY too high on Duffy, IMO. Good prospect, but calling him a "co-number one" is nuts at this point.

[Dick Allen]

Because the Royals are substantially better than the White Sox and are very obviously ready to contend next year.

LMAO. How do you get into contention if you are afraid of paying good players? If Victor Martinez is a good fit for the Royals, he is a good fit for the White Sox. Newsflash....Hahn is trying to win, not see if 1 in 100 waiver claims works out.

[southsider2k5]

LMAO. How do you get into contention if you are afraid of paying good players? If Victor Martinez is a good fit for the Royals, he is a good fit for the White Sox. Newsflash....Hahn is trying to win, not see if 1 in 100 waiver claims works out.

 

I am also pretty sure he is actively trying to not give out any stupid contracts.

[Eminor3rd]

LMAO. How do you get into contention if you are afraid of paying good players? If Victor Martinez is a good fit for the Royals, he is a good fit for the White Sox. Newsflash....Hahn is trying to win, not see if 1 in 100 waiver claims works out.

 

I would just respond with what shysocks said, again:

 

They can be, it's just less likely.

 

I continue to think that Victor's production will not match his contract, but if I had to pick one year of the next four where it will, it's 2015. That's the most important year for the Royals. The most important year for the Sox is 2016, or maybe later. "Bad contract for Sox = bad contract for Royals" makes sense in a vacuum, but all 30 teams are in a different situation, and I'll just say that Victor wouldn't be as bad a deal for KC.

 

And just for the record, I do not want Butler, and I do not think the Royals will sign Martinez

 

Additionally, I think our team is one that needs to invest in some good defense. The Royals are NOT, and thus can actually really benefit from a bat that doesn't take any of their good defenders off the field.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Eminor3rd

[harfman77]

Why is Victor Martinez perfect for the Royals, but for the White Sox he would be nothing but a bad contract?

 

I think the difference is that the Royals window on contention will likely close as VMart hits the back end of his contract while the Sox should just be entering their window. If the Sox were one piece away for next season he would make sense, since they are multiple pieces away it makes less sense to me. You really want a piece that is going to contribute at a high level from 2016-2019 if you are the Sox, and I don't think VMart is that guy.

[Dick Allen]

I think the difference is that the Royals window on contention will likely close as VMart hits the back end of his contract while the Sox should just be entering their window. If the Sox were one piece away for next season he would make sense, since they are multiple pieces away it makes less sense to me. You really want a piece that is going to contribute at a high level from 2016-2019 if you are the Sox, and I don't think VMart is that guy.

Judging by the White Sox raising ticket prices in some cases very significantly, I think they are expecting to spend some money this offseason, and expecting to contend in 2015. So really, they are in the same boat as KC.

[Eminor3rd]

Judging by the White Sox raising ticket prices in some cases very significantly, I think they are expecting to spend some money this offseason, and expecting to contend in 2015. So really, they are in the same boat as KC.

 

White Sox are raising ticket prices, therefore they should be targeting the same free agents as the Royals.

[Dick Allen]

I would just respond with what shysocks said, again:

 

 

 

Additionally, I think our team is one that needs to invest in some good defense. The Royals are NOT, and thus can actually really benefit from a bat that doesn't take any of their good defenders off the field.

The problem with investing in defense is there really are only 2 places realistically they will invest. 3b and a rOF spot. Avasail Garcia, whether we like it or not, is not going to DH at this point. They are going to use a prospect at 2b. Alexei at SS. Abreu isn't going to be a full time DH, and Flowers is a cheap C. Eaton is going to play CF or maybe a corner if they get a CF.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

White Sox are raising ticket prices, therefore they should be targeting the same free agents as the Royals.

Read again. They are raising ticket prices, which means raising payroll, which means trying to contend, which is exactly what the Royals are trying to do which makes Martinez a "perfect fit" for them. The White Sox could use a little more offense, a little more contact, and left handed presence. Just what he provides.

[southsider2k5]

Read again. They are raising ticket prices, which means raising payroll, which means trying to contend, which is exactly what the Royals are trying to do which makes Martinez a "perfect fit" for them. The White Sox could use a little more offense, a little more contact, and left handed presence. Just what he provides.

 

I haven't seen anything about ticket prices going up. How much are we talking? What seats are we talking about? The only person I have seen say anything so far was a season ticket holder who said his entire package went up $1 for the entire season.

[Dick Allen]

I haven't seen anything about ticket prices going up. How much are we talking? What seats are we talking about? The only person I have seen say anything so far was a season ticket holder who said his entire package went up $1 for the entire season.

I have it at home. My invoice is for the exact same as last year, but the chart at the back of the package shows about a $3 per game increase for season ticket accounts which is still a discount from game to game. I am guessing those are for new accounts.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Dick Allen

[Eminor3rd]

Read again. They are raising ticket prices, which means raising payroll, which means trying to contend, which is exactly what the Royals are trying to do which makes Martinez a "perfect fit" for them. The White Sox could use a little more offense, a little more contact, and left handed presence. Just what he provides.

 

My point is that there are many more factors involved, most of them related to roster construction, but also related to the team's long-term goals.

[Eminor3rd]

The problem with investing in defense is there really are only 2 places realistically they will invest. 3b and a rOF spot. Avasail Garcia, whether we like it or not, is not going to DH at this point. They are going to use a prospect at 2b. Alexei at SS. Abreu isn't going to be a full time DH, and Flowers is a cheap C. Eaton is going to play CF or maybe a corner if they get a CF.

 

3B, a corner OF spot, and a C would make a substantial difference though, IMO.

[BlackSox13]

They were also a few timely outs away from being just another forgettable wild card team, though I understand your point about their advancement through the playoffs motivating spending.

 

My gut is just that they aren't going to be buying any of the premium free agents. Not to mention that the org has often pointed out how the team is built around defense - allocating 20% or more of their annual payroll on a DH is contrary to that.

 

I am not arguing he wouldn't be a good pickup for them though.

That's cool, we just see it differently is all. I guess we will find out soon enough.

 

 

Because the Royals are substantially better than the White Sox and are very obviously ready to contend next year.

Exactly. The Sox need to make up 16 games in the win column to get on par with KC. That's a lot of ground to make up in one off season. Not that it can't be done, just not something I'm counting on.

[Y2Jimmy0]

That's cool, we just see it differently is all. I guess we will find out soon enough.

 

 

 

Exactly. The Sox need to make up 16 games in the win column to get on par with KC. That's a lot of ground to make up in one off season. Not that it can't be done, just not something I'm counting on.

 

 

Not hard at all. Offense makes up 4 games. Defense makes up 4 games. Bullpen makes up 4 games. Manager gets 4 games better. Oh wait that's the Cubs. Nevermind.

[witesoxfan]

I just want to clarify my vote in this poll.

 

The question is "Do you want Victor Martinez?" My answer to that question is yes, assuming that we are defining "want" as "want Victor Martinez to play on the Chicago White Sox" and not "want Victor Martinez to send me a naked selfie." I absolutely want the former, I absolutely do not want the latter due to the bodily effects gravity plays on people.

 

However, it's all cost dependent. I think Chicago White Sox mentioned 3/$48 as his limit; I agree with that. Really, anything much more than that on either end is getting too long and too expensive. This is a who has, for all intents and purposes, zero defensive value and he is getting older. Those types of players historically do not return a ton of value and are typically overpaid based on previous performances.

[Bob Sacamano]

I just want to clarify my vote in this poll.

 

The question is "Do you want Victor Martinez?" My answer to that question is yes, assuming that we are defining "want" as "want Victor Martinez to play on the Chicago White Sox" and not "want Victor Martinez to send me a naked selfie." I absolutely want the former, I absolutely do not want the latter due to the bodily effects gravity plays on people.

 

However, it's all cost dependent. I think Chicago White Sox mentioned 3/$48 as his limit; I agree with that. Really, anything much more than that on either end is getting too long and too expensive. This is a who has, for all intents and purposes, zero defensive value and he is getting older. Those types of players historically do not return a ton of value and are typically overpaid based on previous performances.

 

I could do 3/48 on him. Maybe even try to front-load it a bit? He has been primarily a DH the past 4 seasons so how bad could his body be possibly wearing down? I'm sticking with wanting to add him to hit 4th and taking over as veteran leader.

[harfman77]

Judging by the White Sox raising ticket prices in some cases very significantly, I think they are expecting to spend some money this offseason, and expecting to contend in 2015. So really, they are in the same boat as KC.

 

Thats great, but I think acquisitions will be made with on eye on continuing to build forward. Signing Jose Fernandez to an Abreu like deal, trading for CarGo, adding a viable mid-rotation starting pitcher and adding some pieces to the bullpen will all increase payroll and keep the Sox investing for the future. VMart is just going to be too old and too expensive at the end of whatever deal he gets to make me think it will be a good move for the Sox.

[bmags]

Dumb question, I admit:

 

When people are talking about signing jose fernandez, who are they referring to?