Chisoxfn Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Nov 12, 2014 -> 02:38 PM) I agree with all of this. Given that the Sox better darn well be contending in years 3/4, I don't think giving Victor 4 yrs makes a lot of sense as you tie up money that should be in a prime era for us to contend. Who knows if it will but that is why I am more supportive of giving a pitcher a 4 or 5 year deal (not that the top flight ones will end up taking it...but if they did) because in theory, they should still be productive in those years (although any given year they might go down with an injury) and help us not only now contend but not put us in a position where they hinder contention 2 or 3 years from now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 QUOTE (Jake @ Nov 12, 2014 -> 11:20 PM) Yeah, I'll go ahead and celebrate even less salary flexibility for the Tigs I feel like this board has been saying this for 4 years as our team has imploded and theirs has won division 4 straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 12, 2014 -> 02:42 PM) I feel like this board has been saying this for 4 years as our team has imploded and theirs has won division 4 straight. Well, them ditching Fielder helped them out of their conundrum quite a bit, but yeah, they obviously have a few more playoff appearances than us recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Nov 12, 2014 -> 05:36 PM) The good news is, 2 years from now, Tigers are likely going to find themselves in between a rock and a hard place and by that point we better darn well be contending with an upward ascent. I still think we can contend this year (not saying be the favorite but contend) and then a year from now emerge as a bigger contender and hopefully near favorite. We can't just sit idly and waste cost controlled front-line stars. We just can't do it. You don't know when the well will run dry. I also don't blame the Tigers for what they are doing. They have all of this money invested and have some long-term hits, but if they don't do it now, then they almost wasted most of what they already have on their books...they kind of have to stay IN vs. exit and just hope to really enjoy this ride. IMO they already are between a rock and a hard place. To avoid losing their #1 starter will take a payroll >$175 mil, and that literally is just to tread water with guys like Cabrera slowly getting older. I still think we can contend this year as well, but I don't think >$60 million on a DH is the way to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 (edited) The Rangers really bailed them out on Fielder. That said, they've had to part ways with Fister, Peralta, Infante...and I think the most underrated loss is Austin Jackson because of his defensive abilities in that huge CF. They never managed to replace that last year, despite the surprising offense from JD Martinez, Rajai Davis and Hunter (at his age). They sunk a lot of money into Soria, Nathan and Joba with little or no return. If Castellanos and Suarez both became All-Stars at 3B and SS, that would be one thing. Most likely they have one more year, two at best (and yes, it's getting annoying since this will be the 3rd year in a row AT LEAST we've been saying "wait 'til next year"). In effect, the Royals (losing in Game 7) and Tigers are hungrier, and more desperate/dangerous. This is probably Illitch's last big opportunity. Then the Indians have the young pitching and the Twins have Sano/Buxton/Arcia/Santana/Plouffe/Dozier/K.Vargas/Gibson/Meyer. 1. SS Danny Santana 2. 2B Brian Dozier 3. 1B Joe Mauer 4. DH Kennys Vargas 5. 3B Trevor Plouffe 6. RF Oswaldo Arcia 7. C Kurt Suzuki 8. LF Chris Parmalee 9. CF Jordan Schafer One of those last two will be replaced by Buxton...where/when Sano will play is the next question, although he probably won't be ready until July/August. As I said, IF IF IF Mauer hits again like he did in 2010, that's a very dangerous team, especially with the injections of Santana, Vargas and Buxton. A crowded field in the AL Central for sure. Edited November 12, 2014 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Tigers resign Martinez. Ergo, the Minnesota Twins lineup appears. Obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Wish he would have ended up out of our division, but I agree that 4/68 is going to hurt them eventually, so that's a silver lining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 12, 2014 -> 05:00 PM) Tigers resign Martinez. Ergo, the Minnesota Twins lineup appears. Obviously. The fact of the matter is that the White Sox can't wait too long or the Indians/Twins will pass us from below...while everyone's more concerned with the Tigers and Royals coming back down to the pack. Almost everyone has the Indians ahead of us and 25% have the Twins in 4th, too. (Having almost all of your eggs in the basket of Jose Abreu, Sale, Quintana and Eaton is also extremely dangerous, as a single injury to one of those four wipes that team out of contention.) The Orioles won 96 games despite losing Wieters, Machado and Chris Davis. We don't have anything approaching depth at a single position other than middle/utility infielders who may or may not be big league regulars. This isn't the Saints and Panthers battling it out for a .500 finish to make the playoffs. Edited November 12, 2014 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Here was my issue with VMart: A 4 year deal is crazy because of age. I wouldn't have wanted to give up a high 2nd round pick for a short 2 year deal either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 12, 2014 -> 05:04 PM) The fact of the matter is that the White Sox can't wait too long or the Indians/Twins will pass us from below...while everyone's more concerned with the Tigers and Royals coming back down to the pack. Almost everyone has the Indians ahead of us and 25% have the Twins in 4th, too. (Having almost all of your eggs in the basket of Jose Abreu, Sale, Quintana and Eaton is also extremely dangerous, as a single injury to one of those four wipes that team out of contention.) This isn't the Saints and Panthers battling it out for a .500 finish to make the playoffs. Which 25% have the Twins ahead of the White Sox? Do they realize that the Twins pitching rotation is basically Phil Hughes and a bunch of janitors? Also, by saying "having all your eggs in the basket of Jose Abreu...." as if it's a bad thing is basically like saying "having good players is a bad thing because they can get hurt." Well DUH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 12, 2014 -> 05:08 PM) Which 25% have the Twins ahead of the White Sox? Do they realize that the Twins pitching rotation is basically Phil Hughes and a bunch of janitors? Also, by saying "having all your eggs in the basket of Jose Abreu...." as if it's a bad thing is basically like saying "having good players is a bad thing because they can get hurt." Well DUH. http://wtaq.com/blogs/sports/983/the-minne...rting-rotation/ Contingent upon the Twins spending money again (like they did with Hughes, Correia and Nolasco) on a couple of veteran 3-4 guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 12, 2014 -> 05:08 PM) Which 25% have the Twins ahead of the White Sox? Do they realize that the Twins pitching rotation is basically Phil Hughes and a bunch of janitors? Also, by saying "having all your eggs in the basket of Jose Abreu...." as if it's a bad thing is basically like saying "having good players is a bad thing because they can get hurt." Well DUH. The Royals have a LOT of balance, but no one superstar. Gordon or Perez aren't even that, although both those guys would be hard to replace. I'll go back to the Orioles' example. They lost Wieters, Machado and Chris Davis. And still were strong enough to win 96 and make it to the playoffs. Edited November 12, 2014 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 12, 2014 -> 05:11 PM) http://wtaq.com/blogs/sports/983/the-minne...rting-rotation/ Contingent upon the Twins spending money again (like they did with Hughes, Correia and Nolasco) on a couple of veteran 3-4 guys. My favorite pitcher of theirs is that #5, as I think ???????? has a lot of potential to do some damage in this league. Kyle Gibson eats innings, and that would appear to be about it. Trevor May started 9 games, appeared in 10, had an ERA of 7.88 and a FIP of 4.77. My gut instinct tells me he's a reliever moving forward. Alex Meyer is a good pitcher, but he's still never pitched in the majors. Using your criteria, the Sox have Sale, Quintana, Rodon, Noesi, Danks, Montas, Carroll, Beck, and Danish as well. I think I know who is set up better from a pitching standpoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 12, 2014 -> 05:17 PM) My favorite pitcher of theirs is that #5, as I think ???????? has a lot of potential to do some damage in this league. Kyle Gibson eats innings, and that would appear to be about it. Trevor May started 9 games, appeared in 10, had an ERA of 7.88 and a FIP of 4.77. My gut instinct tells me he's a reliever moving forward. Alex Meyer is a good pitcher, but he's still never pitched in the majors. Using your criteria, the Sox have Sale, Quintana, Rodon, Noesi, Danks, Montas, Carroll, Beck, and Danish as well. I think I know who is set up better from a pitching standpoint. If Gibson, a former first rounder, was on the White Sox, Don Cooper would have him as another Gavin Floyd, lol. Let's not forget that Noesi/Danks/Carroll ranked amongst the worst starters in MLB depending upon which peripheral you use. What's the biggest reason the White Sox played so well in 2012? No more Ozzie Guillen. I think you'll see a similar rejuvenation/new life out of the Twins. Just a hunch. Maybe I'm wrong, and they won't do anything between now and April 1st to improve their rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 12, 2014 -> 05:21 PM) If Gibson, a former first rounder, was on the White Sox, Don Cooper would have him as another Gavin Floyd, lol. Let's not forget that Noesi/Danks/Carroll ranked amongst the worst starters in MLB depending upon which peripheral you use. What's the biggest reason the White Sox played so well in 2012? No more Ozzie Guillen. I think you'll see a similar rejuvenation/new life out of the Twins. Just a hunch. Maybe I'm wrong, and they won't do anything between now and April 1st to improve their rotation. The reason the 2012 White Sox played well is because they had a fairly deep lineup that hit the ball well, pitched the ball well, and fielded the ball well pretty much all year long. The Twins haven't been good in 5 years. With absolute jacksquat for pitching, that's not suddenly going to change because they're playing under Molitor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 12, 2014 -> 06:11 PM) http://wtaq.com/blogs/sports/983/the-minne...rting-rotation/ Contingent upon the Twins spending money again (like they did with Hughes, Correia and Nolasco) on a couple of veteran 3-4 guys. Haha, if you're trying to project a rotation, and one of the slots is "?????????", it's probably not a strong argument against the strength of said rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Nov 12, 2014 -> 05:06 PM) Here was my issue with VMart: A 4 year deal is crazy because of age. I wouldn't have wanted to give up a high 2nd round pick for a short 2 year deal either. The sox were never going four years with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 We are getting six years of Abreu for the price of a 36-39 year old Victor Martinez. #WinHahn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 The Tigers owe Verlander,Martinez and Cabrera 78 million in 2018. They got about 2-3 years before all hell breaks loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 QUOTE (Baron @ Nov 12, 2014 -> 05:46 PM) The Tigers owe Verlander,Martinez and Cabrera 78 million in 2018. They got about 2-3 years before all hell breaks loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 12, 2014 -> 05:35 PM) The sox were never going four years with him. Rock, any thoughts on these Ramirez to Mets rumors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 You know I would be pissed as a Tigers fan looking at that. Cool win now...but good lord the next 5-10 years are going to absolutely suck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAfan Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Count me among those who think the Tigers made a good deal by keeping V Mart. Had the Sox signed that deal, I would have been thrilled. I don't see V Mart dropping off much in terms of production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 No surprise, I never considered VMart much of a realistic option for the Sox. Too bad VMart didn't sign with a team outside the ALC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 I am happy for Det...... b/c the sox didn't sign him and I don't have to continue my discussion on how bad of selection it was. yesss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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