Victor Martinez Re-signs with Tigers

[southsider2k5]

Yeah, spread it around. $4.25 million for Keppinger, $3 million for Belisario, $2 million for Paulino, $4 million for Downs, how did that work out? All the proverbial low risk, high reward BS that so many like better than actually watching a team win games.You are going to need a lot more than 5 or 10 Andersons to make it through the season. You do not "win bets", let alone win bets everytime loading your roster with players that cannot play even half a season.

 

The same winter they did that, they dropped a record contract on some dude named Abreu as well.

[LDF]

If we are really talking about Martinez, I would rather give me a big overpay for one year (say $20 million+) versus giving him a 4 year deal.

 

bravo and that is why i chg my position of VMart.

 

4 yrs and 20 mil per...... nah.

[Y2Jimmy0]

If we are really talking about Martinez, I would rather give me a big overpay for one year (say $20 million+) versus giving him a 4 year deal.

 

 

That is nuts to me. Would you trade Spencer Adams right now for 1 year of Victor Martinez? They would have to give up a 2nd round pick for 1 year of a guy. Just doesn't make any sense to me.

[LDF]

The same winter they did that, they dropped a record contract on some dude named Abreu as well.

 

well said.

 

let me add, look at what the sox had. they had to try to get

players. short term players. yeah those gambles didn't work.

 

here is the question that should be asked. why didn't the sox

go all in a rebuild like the northsiders????

 

b/c there would have been a mutiny with that fans.

[southsider2k5]

That is nuts to me. Would you trade Spencer Adams right now for 1 year of Victor Martinez? They would have to give up a 2nd round pick for 1 year of a guy. Just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

When you factor in the payroll hit of an extra $40 million over the life of the contract?

[LDF]

That is nuts to me. Would you trade Spencer Adams right now for 1 year of Victor Martinez? They would have to give up a 2nd round pick for 1 year of a guy. Just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

the sox got lucky, extremely lucky with Adams. but then again

it is Hahn running the draft now. but how many

times does a 2nd pick is a success. ans = rarely a few times.

[Dick Allen]

The same winter they did that, they dropped a record contract on some dude named Abreu as well.

But they aren't supposed to spend money until they are ready to win. Just ask Keith Law. Signing Abreu was dumb.

[southsider2k5]

But they aren't supposed to spend money until they are ready to win. Just ask Keith Law. Signing Abreu was dumb.

 

Nice switch of arguments.

[LDF]

But they aren't supposed to spend money until they are ready to win. Just ask Keith Law. Signing Abreu was dumb.

 

 

a good one.

[caulfield12]

Jose Fernandez doesn't make a lot of sense because he ALSO isn't a very good defender and he's playing a position where we have three potential options (Semien/Sanchez, eventually Micah Johnson)...

 

If we're going to upgrade, it has to be at C, 3B, LF and DH.

 

I've read a number of threads and there's almost no mention of what Flowers is going to do next year...more of the focus has been on improving the 3B situation or whether Garcia will be a 2-3 WAR guy despite his defense and whether Eaton will/can stay healthy.

 

I think Balta's right that there are just too many holes to fill that can't be filled (because it's cutting down the remaining money left considerably) by signing Victor Martinez.

 

Let's say you have $15-20 million more to spend after signing Martinez (that wouldn't even get you ONE season of Robertson now). So I'll go back to my V. Martinez, Rasmus AND Brett Anderson or Sergio Romo example.

 

Most here would say even if you added ALL FOUR of those players, you wouldn't have a surefire contender. All past evidence points to the White Sox adding AT MOST three pretty high level free agents. I'll substitute Edinson Volquez for Anderson and now we're close to $35 million again with Victor, Rasmus and Volquez and we STILL would begin the 2015 season with Danks/Noesi/Bassitt at the back end until Rodon came up....which might get us buried early. We STILL wouldn't have done anything to improve the bullpen. If you DON'T add a starter, you're stuck with the worst 3-5 rotation in baseball again.

 

You're adding four players with LOTS of question marks. I honestly don't think there's a single player on the market right now 75% of the posters would be happy if we bought them on the free agency market because of the dollar figures/years.

 

 

Ethier (subtract Danks and add $3.5 million, now no need for Rasmus)

OR

trade Danish, Montas and Hawkins for Heyward (which nobody will be in favor of)

 

Victor Martinez +$17.5 million

 

Then we'd have to add at least one veteran "second tier" starter to the rotation, let's say Volquez

+$9 million

 

Then you have $10 million left for one really good bullpen piece or two Luke Hochevars that are more speculative

 

 

Eaton

Ethier

Abreu

V.Martinez

A.Garcia

Conor Gillaspie/Semien

Alexei Ramirez

Flowers

Semien/Sanchez (eventually Micah Johnson)

 

That line-up STILL feels ONE player short, with quite a few question marks 5-9 IMO.

 

Sale

Quintana

Volquez

Noesi

Bassitt/Beck/Carroll

 

becoming

 

Sale

Quintana

Volquez

Rodon

Noesi

 

with Bassitt, Beck and Montas figuring into the bullpen puzzle, along with the $10 million you spent on a closer or two high quality set-up guys

Edited November 5, 2014 by caulfield12

[Y2Jimmy0]

When you factor in the payroll hit of an extra $40 million over the life of the contract?

 

 

Well I'd rather not have him at all. Paying anything for a 36 year old DH when you aren't ready to win yet is dumb in general.

[Dick Allen]

Nice switch of arguments.

I am not switching arguments. You made my point. You have to spend money to sign good players.

 

Besides, if the White Sox do improve just a little bit, the cost for signing a free agent will become a 1st round pick if they wait.

 

Again, I wouldn't go 4 guaranteed years for Martinez. 3 with performance based incentives to make it 4, but he is perfect for the White Sox line up.

[southsider2k5]

I am not switching arguments. You made my point. You have to spend money to sign good players.

 

Besides, if the White Sox do improve just a little bit, the cost for signing a free agent will become a 1st round pick if they wait.

 

Again, I wouldn't go 4 guaranteed years for Martinez. 3 with performance based incentives to make it 4, but he is perfect for the White Sox line up.

 

Apparently you were only focusing on the bad signings then? You didn't mention the big one, nor did you mention all of the little things that have worked otu.

[Eminor3rd]

I am not switching arguments. You made my point. You have to spend money to sign good players.

 

Besides, if the White Sox do improve just a little bit, the cost for signing a free agent will become a 1st round pick if they wait.

 

Again, I wouldn't go 4 guaranteed years for Martinez. 3 with performance based incentives to make it 4, but he is perfect for the White Sox line up.

 

Do you seriously, SERIOUSLY not see the difference between Jose Abreu and Victor Martinez? Seriously?

[caulfield12]

I am not switching arguments. You made my point. You have to spend money to sign good players.

 

Besides, if the White Sox do improve just a little bit, the cost for signing a free agent will become a 1st round pick if they wait.

 

Again, I wouldn't go 4 guaranteed years for Martinez. 3 with performance based incentives to make it 4, but he is perfect for the White Sox line up.

 

Abreu and Tanaka were unique circumstances.

 

We only had 2-3 competitors for Jose, when normally the big spenders would have been involved.

 

 

In this case, we're fighting with 6-8 (maybe even 10) teams (the majority closer to the playoffs) who could use Victor Martinez at either DH or 1B.

 

The other teams are all kicking the tires on Sandoval, Hanley Ramirez and Headley, who might quickly sign with the Yankees and further decrease the supply and push up demand.

[witesoxfan]

I am not switching arguments. You made my point. You have to spend money to sign good players.

 

Besides, if the White Sox do improve just a little bit, the cost for signing a free agent will become a 1st round pick if they wait.

 

Again, I wouldn't go 4 guaranteed years for Martinez. 3 with performance based incentives to make it 4, but he is perfect for the White Sox line up.

 

Obviously dependent upon price. We can argue that until the cows come home, but I agree his bat would look good in the lineup. I just don't think the price is going to match up for what the Sox are willing to pay compared to others. If it does, that's awesome. At that point, they may as well go out, spend big money on Robertson and Miller, bring in a couple decent starting pitching flyers, sign or acquire a left handed outfielder who is good defensively, and see what happens.

[caulfield12]

Apparently you were only focusing on the bad signings then? You didn't mention the big one, nor did you mention all of the little things that have worked otu.

 

 

When has signing a 36 year old to a 3-4 year guaranteed free agent contract (and not a convicted in the court of public opinion PEDS user) ever worked out in baseball history when that player was coming off an anomalous statistical career timeline performance in his contract year, which happened to be in his mid 30's?

Edited November 5, 2014 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Obviously dependent upon price. We can argue that until the cows come home, but I agree his bat would look good in the lineup. I just don't think the price is going to match up for what the Sox are willing to pay compared to others. If it does, that's awesome. At that point, they may as well go out, spend big money on Robertson and Miller, bring in a couple decent starting pitching flyers, sign or acquire a left handed outfielder who is good defensively, and see what happens.

 

 

Another $35-45 million when you just blew $17-18?

 

It's kind of like when you have over $100,000 in student loans, what's another couple of hundred thousand at that point?

[Dick Allen]

When has signing a 36 year old to a 3-4 year guaranteed free agent contract (and not a convicted in the court of public opinion PEDS user) ever worked out in baseball history when that player was coming off an anomalous statistical career timeline performance in his contract year, which happened to be in his mid 30's?

You are just blowing off his typical seasons. It isn't like he was garbage and then all of a sudden..... And I doubt anyone is thinking he will match his 2014 season in 2015. I think the White Sox would take his typical season. Paul Molitor worked out pretty well for Toronto. Harold Baines worked out pretty well for the White Sox and Baltimore. That is 2. There are some others.

[Dick Allen]

Apparently you were only focusing on the bad signings then? You didn't mention the big one, nor did you mention all of the little things that have worked otu.

I was focused on dumpster diving signings because that is what many here are arguing to do instead of trying to sign good hitters. But again, you made my point. Thanks.

[Dick Allen]

Do you seriously, SERIOUSLY not see the difference between Jose Abreu and Victor Martinez? Seriously?

And the problem with free agents is that they are nearly ALWAYS diminishing assets. Their rate of decay varies, but they are always most valuable on day one.

 

That is your quote. Jose Abreu is a diminishing return.

 

Quit insulting my intelligence. Of course I see the difference. But you have to pay up to get Jose Abreu. I am sure you are happy they didn't wait until they could win before signing him. And I fully expect them to contend next year. That apparently is another difference we have.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Dick Allen

[witesoxfan]

Another $35-45 million when you just blew $17-18?

 

It's kind of like when you have over $100,000 in student loans, what's another couple of hundred thousand at that point?

 

Uhhh, another $35-45?

 

You'd assume somewhere around $10-12 mill a year for Robertson and $8-10 mill for Miller. At the most, that's $22. You bring in a couple of flyers - not $6-10 million type guys, but $2-5 million types or minor league free agents who aren't going to cost a ton of money. And then a 4th outfielder who hits left handed and is fairly good defensively? That costs like $5 mill at the most.

 

No, it's nothing like $100,000 in student loands, what's another couple hundred thousand, because that's all borrowed money. It's like "I have $70,000 I can spend on a new car, and while I should go for something reasonable that will cost me in the $20-$30,000 range, I am going to splurge on a $55,000 car and hope nothing comes up." It's risky but has high dividends. It's not may favorite way of going and I'm not advocating it, but if you get Victor, you may as well try and set yourself up the best you can to win this season.

[Eminor3rd]

When has signing a 36 year old to a 3-4 year guaranteed free agent contract (and not a convicted in the court of public opinion PEDS user) ever worked out in baseball history when that player was coming off an anomalous statistical career timeline performance in his contract year, which happened to be in his mid 30's?

 

Been asking that question for pages. BUT, evidently signing a 27-year old advanced MLB prospect with tremendous upside at a rate of a league average contributor was a similar gamble.

[caulfield12]

Uhhh, another $35-45?

 

You'd assume somewhere around $10-12 mill a year for Robertson and $8-10 mill for Miller. At the most, that's $22. You bring in a couple of flyers - not $6-10 million type guys, but $2-5 million types or minor league free agents who aren't going to cost a ton of money. And then a 4th outfielder who hits left handed and is fairly good defensively? That costs like $5 mill at the most.

 

No, it's nothing like $100,000 in student loands, what's another couple hundred thousand, because that's all borrowed money. It's like "I have $70,000 I can spend on a new car, and while I should go for something reasonable that will cost me in the $20-$30,000 range, I am going to splurge on a $55,000 car and hope nothing comes up." It's risky but has high dividends. It's not may favorite way of going and I'm not advocating it, but if you get Victor, you may as well try and set yourself up the best you can to win this season.

 

Robertson's already guaranteed $15.3 million. He's unlikely to get any $36 million/3 year deals, so he ends up staying in NYC...

 

If we're bringing in $2-5 million reclamation starting pitchers, Dick Allen will have his own website. They would be better off going with Noesi and Bassitt in that case, unless Don Cooper really knows something nobody else does....never mind.

 

And why are we adding a 4th outfielder when we don't even have a 3rd one? Sounds like you want Aoki, Denorfia or perhaps DeAza again.

 

 

[Eminor3rd]

And the problem with free agents is that they are nearly ALWAYS diminishing assets. Their rate of decay varies, but they are always most valuable on day one.

 

That is your quote. Jose Abreu is a diminishing return.

 

Quit insulting my intelligence. Of course I see the difference. But you have to pay up to get Jose Abreu. I am sure you are happy they didn't wait until they could win before signing him. And I fully expect them to contend next year. That apparently is another difference we have.

 

You are insulting ALL of our intelligence(s?) by pretending to be dense about this.

 

Also note the word "nearly" in what you quoted above. Abreu is clearly a special case to everyone here, and you know it, so you can stop pretending I painted myself into some corner that you made up.