Victor Martinez Re-signs with Tigers

[Vance Law]

Rasmus cannot carry Cargo's jockstrap.

 

Cargo doesn't need a jockstrap because he's always on the DL collecting $16 million. Did I answer the riddle right?

[BlackSox13]

Cargo doesn't need a jockstrap because he's always on the DL collecting $16 million. Did I answer the riddle right?

I actually laughed out loud Vance, well said. Lmao

[caulfield12]

A healthy CarGo in his prime at Coors Field > Rasmus

 

Unfortunately, that 759 OPS over the last three years away from Denver doesn't help his case...not to mention the injuries, the contract we'd be assuming and talent surrendered.

 

Basically, two of the last three years he's been a 0-1 WAR player.

 

And he's finally reached the last season of his "peak" years, his age 29 season. That would be fine, in and of itself, if he'd shown an ability to stay on the field the past three years. That worrying trend, alone, doesn't augur well for him staying healthier as he continues to age.

 

Too much risk IMO.

Edited November 6, 2014 by caulfield12

[gosox41]

And again no one said VMart has to be the only addition. Also apparently best years are bad as are worst years and declining years so when do you exacting jump into the fray ?

 

 

When the team is closer to winning. We are on a limited budget, say around $90MM for next year (I don't know what it is but it is a realistic estimate.) So who else do you get to fill the other holes to make this team a World Series contender in 2016?

 

If there were a 28 year old that fit the Sox needs, I'd go after him as an FA. I just can't get excited about an average team with a key player and big salary as being a component of that knowing he is old and won't be as dependable.

 

 

Bob

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Glad you asked

 

Q1) What would you do?

 

A1) I would target players who didn't get QOs and try to get 75% or so of the value of the players who did get QOs with 50% or less of the per year money, and 25-35% of the overall contract commitment. In doing so, I also give myself another full year of building the farm system as I don't lose my second round pick and the related slot allocation from my bonus pool.

 

Q2) Who would you try to acquire?

 

A2) Markakis, Headley, LaRoche, McCarthy, Billingsley, Miller, Duke, and Hochevar are examples of players I would target. None have a QO, and all could make impact contributions in 2015 and 2016.

 

Q3) Who would you target in 2016?

 

A3) A lot of that would depend on how the 2015 season worked out, but likely a premium hitter, maybe two, possibly a pen arm, and defense. That is, provided, of course, that I got at least one hitter, one 3-4 level starter, and at least two pen arms this off-season.

Next year our 1st round pick might not be protected so if you want a premium hitter or 2 which comes attached with a qualifying offer then your giving up a 1st rd. draft pick. If we get a premium hitter or 2 this year. we give up a 2nd and 3rd round draft pick. Also if you target some of those guy above will it not impact the Sox ability to get those guys next year since you have now occupied much of the payroll flexilbilty ?

 

If we're going to make moves for premium talent then this is the ideal year for it.

[caulfield12]

Next year our 1st round pick might not be protected so if you want a premium hitter or 2 which comes attached with a qualifying offer then your giving up a 1st rd. draft pick. If we get a premium hitter or 2 this year. we give up a 2nd and 3rd round draft pick. Also if you target some of those guy above will it not impact the Sox ability to get those guys next year since you have now occupied much of the payroll flexilbilty ?

 

If we're going to make moves for premium talent then this is the ideal year for it.

 

 

Except there are no "ideal" players.

 

Sandoval's projected to get $100-116 million for 5-6 years and he's probably a 725-750 OPS 3B from here on out.

[BlackSox13]

Next year our 1st round pick might not be protected so if you want a premium hitter or 2 which comes attached with a qualifying offer then your giving up a 1st rd. draft pick. If we get a premium hitter or 2 this year. we give up a 2nd and 3rd round draft pick. Also if you target some of those guy above will it not impact the Sox ability to get those guys next year since you have now occupied much of the payroll flexilbilty ?

 

If we're going to make moves for premium talent then this is the ideal year for it.

Exactly. If the Sox wait til next years FA then its likely the Sox don't have a protected first rounder and then hind sighters come out saying the Sox shouldn't sign any top free agents because the last player they signed that cost a first round pick was Adam Dunn and we know how the song will go from there.

 

If there's a year when the Sox should fill a few holes through FA, this is it. The more I hear about CarGo and his horrible contract, the more I like the idea of going after Rasmus who would give similar production, one year younger, cheaper and will not cost anyone from the farm teams. Rasmus AND VMart would add some very nice power from the left side and Rasmus is definitely an upgrade over Tank in LF.

 

I would try to give the Yanks some competition with regards to Headley too.

 

If the Sox aren't willing to spend on a few quality free agent bats and a reliever or two then they should stop with the " we think we can contend" bs because there's no friggin way they will without spending the money.

 

Then comes another season of excuses starting with " attendance is down and the whole bleeding heart bag o bs.

Edited November 6, 2014 by StRoostifer

[Kyyle23]

Exactly. If the Sox wait til next years FA then its likely the Sox don't have a protected first rounder and then hind sighters come out saying the Sox shouldn't sign any top free agents because the last player they signed that cost a first round pick was Adam Dunn and we know how the song will go from there.

 

If there's a year when the Sox should fill a few holes through FA, this is it. The more I hear about CarGo and his horrible contract, the more I like the idea of going after Rasmus who would give similar production, one year younger, cheaper and will not cost anyone from the farm teams. Rasmus AND VMart would add some very nice power from the left side and Rasmus is definitely an upgrade over Tank in LF.

 

I would try to give the Yanks some competition with regards to Headley too.

 

If the Sox aren't willing to spend on a few quality free agent bats and a reliever or two then they should stop with the " we think we can contend" bs because there's no friggin way they will without spending the money.

 

Then comes another season of excuses starting with " attendance is down and the whole bleeding heart bag o bs.

 

This is a myth, at least in the last decade it is. The Sox have spent plenty of money with terrible attendance since 2005.

[BlackSox13]

This is a myth, at least in the last decade it is. The Sox have spent plenty of money with terrible attendance since 2005.

Exactly, and that's why I don't want to hear the excuse of "attendance is down" which fans have heard before.

 

Either live up to " we think we can contend" bit or admit that 2015 will be a continuation in the rebuild. If its a continuation then fine, no problem, just shut up about the " we can contend" bit because Sox fans aren't as nieve as cub fans. Sox fans can see how many holes there are on this team, how low the current payroll is and how limited the rebuilding farm is on assets that could be used to acquire players to fill holes.

 

If JR wants to keep his money in his pocket, I will happily do the same.

Edited November 6, 2014 by StRoostifer

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Except there are no "ideal" players.

 

Sandoval's projected to get $100-116 million for 5-6 years and he's probably a 725-750 OPS 3B from here on out.

We know that. but there are upgrades over what we already have and in some cases big upgrades. I think the Sox can do very well without handing out any contract over 3 years to a number of free agents. We'll see if VMart gets the 4 he wants.

[caulfield12]

I'm of the belief that Hahn would rather wait another year and sacrifice a first rounder from #12-18 in 2016 if he can't get any of the few logical targeted players this off-season.

 

Or that we might strike in the Cuban/Japanese/Korean market again, where it wouldn't cost us a high draft pick.

 

Or that instead of forcing an acquisition that's not an ideal fit, he'll figure out a way to trade for that logical/critical asset instead.

 

 

Granted, he doesn't have Reed and Santiago to dangle this time around....he's stuck with moving fringy prospects, Alexei Ramirez or Dayan Viciedo, which doesn't provide much in the way of wiggle room.

Edited November 6, 2014 by caulfield12

[Bigsoxhurt35]

I've put my love for CarGo aside. I'm not interested in him unless it's a Danks for CarGo swap. I'll keep my prospects and build up our system.

[Kyyle23]

Lets just play the imagination game and say Danks and Cargo were really swapped. Could you imagine how many homeruns Danks would give up in Coors? good lord, that would almost be worth getting the extra innings package to watch

[southsider2k5]

Exactly. If the Sox wait til next years FA then its likely the Sox don't have a protected first rounder and then hind sighters come out saying the Sox shouldn't sign any top free agents because the last player they signed that cost a first round pick was Adam Dunn and we know how the song will go from there.

 

If there's a year when the Sox should fill a few holes through FA, this is it. The more I hear about CarGo and his horrible contract, the more I like the idea of going after Rasmus who would give similar production, one year younger, cheaper and will not cost anyone from the farm teams. Rasmus AND VMart would add some very nice power from the left side and Rasmus is definitely an upgrade over Tank in LF.

 

I would try to give the Yanks some competition with regards to Headley too.

 

If the Sox aren't willing to spend on a few quality free agent bats and a reliever or two then they should stop with the " we think we can contend" bs because there's no friggin way they will without spending the money.

 

Then comes another season of excuses starting with " attendance is down and the whole bleeding heart bag o bs.

 

It isn't excuses, it is reality. Sox fans are bandwagon fans, and that hurts payroll when they aren't winning.

[Dam8610]

Next year our 1st round pick might not be protected so if you want a premium hitter or 2 which comes attached with a qualifying offer then your giving up a 1st rd. draft pick. If we get a premium hitter or 2 this year. we give up a 2nd and 3rd round draft pick. Also if you target some of those guy above will it not impact the Sox ability to get those guys next year since you have now occupied much of the payroll flexilbilty ?

 

If we're going to make moves for premium talent then this is the ideal year for it.

 

I disagree. I think that because this team is at least a full season away from contention no matter what they do, they might as well stock up the farm system as much as possible this year while also building toward a contender. Yes, it means losing a higher pick next year in all likelihood, however, when you're shifting toward contention, building the farm becomes less of a concern, though it should still exist as a concern.

[Dam8610]

Exactly. If the Sox wait til next years FA then its likely the Sox don't have a protected first rounder and then hind sighters come out saying the Sox shouldn't sign any top free agents because the last player they signed that cost a first round pick was Adam Dunn and we know how the song will go from there.

 

If there's a year when the Sox should fill a few holes through FA, this is it. The more I hear about CarGo and his horrible contract, the more I like the idea of going after Rasmus who would give similar production, one year younger, cheaper and will not cost anyone from the farm teams. Rasmus AND VMart would add some very nice power from the left side and Rasmus is definitely an upgrade over Tank in LF.

 

I would try to give the Yanks some competition with regards to Headley too.

 

If the Sox aren't willing to spend on a few quality free agent bats and a reliever or two then they should stop with the " we think we can contend" bs because there's no friggin way they will without spending the money.

 

Then comes another season of excuses starting with " attendance is down and the whole bleeding heart bag o bs.

 

The only player on your list I wouldn't pursue is Martinez because he has a QO, and he's old and will get WAY too much on the Free Agent market.

[Dick Allen]

I disagree. I think that because this team is at least a full season away from contention no matter what they do, they might as well stock up the farm system as much as possible this year while also building toward a contender. Yes, it means losing a higher pick next year in all likelihood, however, when you're shifting toward contention, building the farm becomes less of a concern, though it should still exist as a concern.

Since we do not know the 2015 roster, how can you say this team is at least one season away? The White Sox don't make the playoffs very often, but a couple of times when they did, they were just about as bad as they were in 2014 the previous season. The 1999 team won 75 games. The 2007 team won 72 games. In 1976, I know, baseball was a lot different, the team was awful and lost 97 games. The 1977 Southside Hitmen won 90. That can get you in the playoffs these days. In 1989 they won 69 games and won 94 in 1990, and it wasn't all because Frank Thomas. He came up in August. As did young Alex. Robin Ventura wasn't exactly ripping the cover off the ball either.

 

They need to acquire a hitter or 2 and a few pitchers, maybe get someone who can catch the ball, and need some guys to develop, but it has been done before.

 

The way it is now, you have a .500 roster, but can win one extra game a month, you are right there.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Dick Allen

[Rowand44]

Since we do not know the 2015 roster, how can you say this team is at least one season away? The White Sox don't make the playoffs very often, but a couple of times when they did, they were just about as bad as they were in 2014 the previous season. The 1999 team won 75 games. The 2007 team won 72 games. In 1976, I know, baseball was a lot different, the team was awful and lost 97 games. The 1977 Southside Hitmen won 90. That can get you in the playoffs these days. In 1989 they won 69 games and won 94 in 1990, and it wasn't all because Frank Thomas. He came up in August. As did young Alex. Robin Ventura wasn't exactly ripping the cover off the ball either.

 

They need to acquire a hitter or 2 and a few pitchers, maybe get someone who can catch the ball, and need some guys to develop, but it has been done before.

 

The way it is now, you have a .500 roster, but can win one extra game a month, you are right there.

I agree with all of this.

[BlackSox13]

The only player on your list I wouldn't pursue is Martinez because he has a QO, and he's old and will get WAY too much on the Free Agent market.

I know what you mean. I only consider VMart if other free agents are signed, otherwise, forget it.

 

Plus, I've said before, I just don't see VMart being interested in the Sox.

[southsider2k5]

I know what you mean. I only consider VMart if other free agents are signed, otherwise, forget it.

 

Plus, I've said before, I just don't see VMart being interested in the Sox.

 

Unless the White Sox significantly outbid everyone else, I can't think of a compelling reason to pick the White Sox over most other teams.

[Al Lopez's Ghost]

Chris Sale won't throw at him?

[BlackSox13]

Unless the White Sox significantly outbid everyone else, I can't think of a compelling reason to pick the White Sox over most other teams.

Yup, VMart has said he wants to sign with a contender and the Sox are not a contender. IMO, the Sox would have to make some combination of key signings and trades in order to gain VMarts interest in signing a contract. There are other teams that are already contenders and will be bidding on VMart.

 

VMart actually signing with the Sox is just sports writers hype and nothing more.

[BlackSox13]

Chris Sale won't throw at him?

Rumor has it that Sale has been saranading love songs to Victor in an effort to get Victor to sign with the Sox.

[Lillian]

Hahn has stated that the Sox are targeting a left handed, middle of the order bat.

If they do not sign V. Martinez, or any other free agent this off season, whom would they target for 2016? The only one who might be available is

Chris Davis.

 

There certainly is no one within the organization, who might fill that void.

Is there someone I'm missing?

[2nd_city_saint787]

Aren't Avi and Vmart friends...That's something