Victor Martinez Re-signs with Tigers

[2nd_city_saint787]

I'd say so yeah. You're counting on the money from Alexei to be freed up to make that ok, so we're playing a rookie at the back of the lineup and downgrading from the veteran who's had that position for years?

 

So when do contending teams play their top prospects? Since the goal should be to contend year in and year out then why not just trade all your prospects?

 

Even if they wanna resign Lexi I'm sure 15M from Martinez won't cripple them. Esp. when you consider Sale, Q, and Rodon is gonna cost around 20M combined (Sale and Q will cost 18M and Rodon will still be on a rookie contract).

 

That rotation, namely Sale and Q, is gonna create A LOT of flexibility when it comes to money.

[Eminor3rd]

I don't want anything to do with him. Bad age, bad injury history, definite draft pick compensation, position limited, and coming off the best year of his long career in a time when there is certainly no reason to believe his skills have suddenly blossomed. No reason to believe he can repeat what he just did, but he'll get paid like he's expected to do just that.

 

Let's let some other team make that mistake.

[Dick Allen]

I don't want anything to do with him. Bad age, bad injury history, definite draft pick compensation, position limited, and coming off the best year of his long career in a time when there is certainly no reason to believe his skills have suddenly blossomed. No reason to believe he can repeat what he just did, but he'll get paid like he's expected to do just that.

 

Let's let some other team make that mistake.

Clearly had his best season but still has a career wRC+ of 125. The guy can hit.

[SCCWS]

Playing your top prospect= rebuilding? Huh, didn't know that. We should just trade him then.

 

Have you noticed that the "top prospect" has not reached AAA yet and he has struggled defensively playing SS at A and AA levels???

 

[Balta1701]

Clearly had his best season but still has a career wRC+ of 125. The guy can hit.

Surely you can see the worry about citing his career numbers as a projection of what he'll do in his 36-38 year old seasons. (Articles showing how far most players are falling back by those ages cited here, Here,Here.)

[2nd_city_saint787]

Have you noticed that the "top prospect" has not reached AAA yet and he has struggled defensively playing SS at A and AA levels???

 

And the discussion I'm having is talking about him taking over for Lexi 3 years from now, which should be the plan anyway. Hell it's plausible Anderson "forces" them to deny Lexis option in 2.

 

 

[LDF]

I don't want anything to do with him. Bad age, bad injury history, definite draft pick compensation, position limited,

and coming off the best year of his long career in a time when there is certainly no reason to believe his skills

have suddenly blossomed. No reason to believe he can repeat what he just did, but he'll get paid like he's

expected to do just that.

Let's let some other team make that mistake.

 

I am coming in late for this discussion. after reading it. the only answer if I

were to post anything would be this one. can he repeat ???? he is coming into

these stats at what age ???

 

excellent post.

[LDF]

And the discussion I'm having is talking about him taking over for Lexi 3 years from now, which should be the plan anyway. Hell it's plausible Anderson "forces" them to deny Lexis option in 2.

 

I believe this has been discuss many time before, esp from me. I have some

serious doubt on his defense, but many have pointed out he is still young

and may become a better SS than he is now.

 

this one is a wait and see, with no real answer now.

[Lillian]

The following article provides some interesting perspective on just how remarkable his season was, at his age:

 

http://eyeontigers.blogspot.com/2014/11/ju...n+the+Tigers%29

 

A more interesting question would be; how did those other players perform at ages 36, 37, 38 and 39?

That would be worth doing the research.

Unless Martinez has discovered some way to beat the aging process (without PEDS), it doesn't seem reasonable to count on him to

fair any better than the list of impressive Hall of Famers, who have accomplished a similarly impressive year, late in their careers.

[greg775]

I've decided the Sox are not the type of team to give 15-20 million for four years to a guy as old as Victor. I see no way the Sox acquire him; it's not going to happen.

 

I think the Sox are more apt to sign a guy like Billy Butler on the cheap. He "might" have 2-3 good years left in him and might like finally being in a hitters park. More than anything, I stress the "cheap" part. He wants to return to KC but if the Sox show real love, they could get him.

Edited November 2, 2014 by greg775

[max power]

I think I'd prefer billy butler over the course of the entire contract.

Edited November 2, 2014 by MAX

[2nd_city_saint787]

I've decided the Sox are not the type of team to give 15-20 million for four years to a guy as old as Victor. I see no way the Sox acquire him; it's not going to happen.

 

I think the Sox are more apt to sign a guy like Billy Butler on the cheap. He "might" have 2-3 good years left in him and might like finally being in a hitters park. More than anything, I stress the "cheap" part. He wants to return to KC but if the Sox show real love, they could get him.

 

Sweet, now its gonna happen!

[BigHurt3515]

I would be very happy with getting him.. Go protection for Abreu. I don't think he will be horribly worse with age. Can't imagine him hitting less then .270 throughout a 3 year contract. I would expect a few more home runs playing at US Cellular.

 

Eaton

Ramirez

Abreu

Martinez

Garcia

Gillaspie

LF

Flowers/C

Semien/Sanchez/Johnson

 

Could be a good line up depending on who we get for the extra OF spot.

[Lillian]

I started to look at some of the players, who reached career highs in several offensive categories, at age 35 or older.

Several of them were guys in the Steroid era. Bonds, McGuire, and Manny Ramirez all took PEDS. Of the others, Ted Williams,

Hank Aaron and Stan Musial stand out as Modern Era players (I'm old enough to consider the end of the "Dead Ball Era" as the beginning of the "Modern Era") who went on to have good years, very late in their careers.

None of those players had the luxury of filling the role of DH.

 

Maybe Martinez is in that mold, although it's easy to understand a reluctance to bet on it. One thing that really stands out to me is that he only struck out 42 times in 641 plate appearances!! With his terrific slugging percentage, that is truly remarkable. The guy is an extraordinary hitter.

He might be one of the top 2 or 3 professional hitters in the game today, and just may be that rare exception to the rule.

 

If the Sox are ready to do whatever else they need to do to build a solid contender, then a gamble that V Mart will be productive for the next 3 years, is reasonable. Frankly, if he performed at age 36, 37 and 38, I wouldn't think the 4th year would be that great of a detriment.

Hell, write off the last year of a 4 year contract. It would be worth it, if the Sox could contend for the next 3.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Lillian

[BigHurt3515]

If no Martinez then I really want Sandoval.

[Dick Allen]

Surely you can see the worry about citing his career numbers as a projection of what he'll do in his 36-38 year old seasons. (Articles showing how far most players are falling back by those ages cited here, Here,Here.)

Considering he had his finest season at 35 I wouldn't put much into what typically happens. He was down the first half of 2013 after missing 2012 but has been on fire the last year and a half. Sure there is risk. But this gamble makes sense as long as it doesn't go crazy.

[Lillian]

I would be very happy with getting him.. Go protection for Abreu. I don't think he will be horribly worse with age. Can't imagine him hitting less then .270 throughout a 3 year contract. I would expect a few more home runs playing at US Cellular.

 

Eaton

Ramirez

Abreu

Martinez

Garcia

Gillaspie

LF

Flowers/C

Semien/Sanchez/Johnson

 

Could be a good line up depending on who we get for the extra OF spot.

 

With that line up, they could settle for a good defensive left fielder with speed and a decent OBP. They wouldn't need any big power production.

I would also suggest a platoon of Semien and Gillaspie, as many have advocated.

[Balta1701]

I started to look at some of the players, who reached career highs in several offensive categories, at age 35 or older.

Several of them were guys in the Steroid era. Bonds, McGuire, and Manny Ramirez all took PEDS. Of the others, Ted Williams,

Hank Aaron and Stan Musial stand out as modern era players who went on to have good years, very late in their careers.

None of those players had the luxury of filling the role of DH.

 

Maybe Martinez is in that mold, but jeez it's hard to bet on it. One thing that really stands out to me is that he only struck out

42 times in 641 plate appearances!! With his terrific slugging percentage, that is truly remarkable. The guy is an extraordinary hitter.

He might be one of the top 2 or 3 professional hitters in the game today, and just may be that rare exception to the rule.

 

If the Sox are ready to do whatever else they need to do to build a solid contender, then a gamble that V Mart will be productive for the next 3 years, is reasonable. Frankly, if he performed at age 36, 37 and 38, I wouldn't think the 4th year would be that great of a detriment.

Hell, write off the last year of a 4 year contract. It would be worth it, if the sox could contend for the next 3.

The trick is that the White Sox would need to sign Martinez and still have enough room remaining to build a competitive roster.

 

Right now, we're missing a DH, a starting caliber OF, the most important parts of a bullpen, and a mid-rotation starting pitcher, and that's on top of needing improvement from guys like Garcia and whatever rookie takes over 2b compared to last year. That's a whole lot to add if you're spending $15 million on your DH slot.

 

Maybe you can get the bullpen guys on top of that and get yourself up to close to $30 million added, but even with that you're still holding a major hole in the middle of your starting rotation. Yeah Rodon should be up at some point this season, but you really can't count on a guy who has never thrown >130 innings to immediately take over a spot in the middle of a starting rotation on a pennant chasing team, so we still need some help there...and that's still leaving a major gaping hole in the OF.

 

If you're spending >$50 million this offseason, then fine, we've got $10 million+ remaining for a starting pitcher and a corner OF, but it makes no sense to me to do something like "Sign Martinez as our big time DH and then sign Aoki to platoon with Viciedo in the OF" as our upgrade out there.

[Balta1701]

Considering he had his finest season at 35 I wouldn't put much into what typically happens. He was down the first half of 2013 after missing 2012 but has been on fire the last year and a half. Sure there is risk. But this gamble makes sense as long as it doesn't go crazy.

What is going crazy to you?

[southsider2k5]

Damn you answered already . Can you pls make this a poll with a simple I want Victor or I do not want Victor choice? I swore I did it right but screwed it up. Any mod/god please fix .

 

A bit late, but there you go.

[Dick Allen]

What is going crazy to you?

I would say guaranteeing him $60 million would be crazy. If it has to be 4 years I would think the 4th year should be an option that could be guaranteed based on performance.

[southsider2k5]

I think I'd prefer billy butler over the course of the entire contract.

 

I would agree with this, especially when you consider the contract saving.s

[Balta1701]

I would agree with this, especially when you consider the contract saving.s

Butler would make more sense if I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that we could find a LH hitting corner OF good enough to hit 4th or 5th in this lineup somewhere.

[Eminor3rd]

I don't want anything to do with him. Bad age, bad injury history, definite draft pick compensation, position limited, and coming off the best year of his long career in a time when there is certainly no reason to believe his skills have suddenly blossomed. No reason to believe he can repeat what he just did, but he'll get paid like he's expected to do just that.

 

Let's let some other team make that mistake.

 

Considering he had his finest season at 35 I wouldn't put much into what typically happens. He was down the first half of 2013 after missing 2012 but has been on fire the last year and a half. Sure there is risk. But this gamble makes sense as long as it doesn't go crazy.

 

And 35-year old 125 wRC+ DHs get like 2yr/$24m. If that's where we are, then it's a different discussion.

 

Before last year, Victor Martinez's career, offensively, spanned from 86 wRC+ to 130 wRC+. Last year, he put up 166 wRC+. That's SO much better. Even if you ignore the possibility of age-related decline, you have got to be suspicious at a guy who suddenly hits 40% better after 12 years of remarkably consistent performance.

 

So when you say it's "worth the risk," I really don't understand. I mean EVERY free agent presents a risk, I'd argue that if one was worth the risk, it wouldn't be one that DOESN'T have so many obvious signs that his performance was flukey. I'm not saying we all wouldn't like 2014 VMart in our lineup, but that's just not what is going to happen if we sign him.

 

It's the same thing with Shields. They've been awesome, but we can't afford to push the chips in on guys that are obviously riskier than the others.

[BlackSox13]

No thanks to Victor. If the Sox were a bat short of contention, then yes but they have too many holes to fill.