Yoan Moncada signs with Red Sox

[harfman77]

The sentiment seems to be that he will cost somewhere between $30 and $40 million for his contract.`

 

I have been reading some of that, and has been the case with Tomas, the numbers are often inflated by rival scouts to get teams to sit out. I can't remember if it was Badler or McDaniel that talked to Tomas' agent and said the numbers that were being reported are much larger than what was being discussed.

 

If it truly is $40M, than the Sox and pretty much everyone but the Yankees are out, because nobody has $80M in expendable income. So I don't see anyway the bidding reaches that point. But I could see the tag being in the $20-$25M range.

[witesoxfan]

Its really only taking yourself out of play for one season, and maybe not even that long given the names that Sox have been connected with. With the payroll reductions the Sox have made the last two seasons there is some money there to go out and use to make such acquisitions. The Sox would have had to pay $20M posting fee for Tanaka last season, so we know there is some money around for such moves and you can reasonable assume that the pot is bigger given the reduced payroll and amateur spending this season.

 

It was changed from no signings over $250K for 1 season to no signings over $300k for 2 seasons when teams were intentionally exploiting that loophole, so for whoever signs Moncada, it will be two times his signing bonus (likely about $80 million) for year one of his service plus then whatever he'd get in a normal 6 year contract. They are then locked out of signings over $300k for 2015-16 and 2016-17. They'd finally be able to make signings over $300k within their slotted pool amount again on July 2, 2017.

[harfman77]

It was changed from no signings over $250K for 1 season to no signings over $300k for 2 seasons when teams were intentionally exploiting that loophole, so for whoever signs Moncada, it will be two times his signing bonus (likely about $80 million) for year one of his service plus then whatever he'd get in a normal 6 year contract. They are then locked out of signings over $300k for 2015-16 and 2016-17. They'd finally be able to make signings over $300k within their slotted pool amount again on July 2, 2017.

 

Yes I understand the international piece, and I think Moncada is worth two Adolfo's or whatever else you could get over the next two signing periods. There are a lot of cases where the guys that sign smaller contracts end up with ML success and guys that sign big bonuses fizzle out. In addition, you can sign 8 guys for $300K each of the next two seasons which would still be a pretty good haul. As of this point, when many of the top names for next years class are agreeing to deals with ML teams, the Sox are not a team that seem to have any deals in place with any of the top players based on McDaniels last international breakdown.

[LDF]

 

wasn't there suppose to have been an update on Tomas and his movement today?

[LDF]

wasn't there suppose to have been an update on Tomas and his movement today?

 

I am dying here. I need news from the Cuban front.

[caulfield12]

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/mlb/kansa...cle3855792.html

 

This seems to be the consensus, in a nutshell, about Tomas from most teams' perspectives.

 

Like Rusney Castillo and Fernandez, there's much more limited information out there in terms of projections compared to when you look at prior Cubans such as Cespedes, Puig and Abreu (or even Soler, for that matter).

 

He's at that in-between age where he hasn't had a tremendous amount of international competition to measure him by.

 

It feels like his upside (at best) is Soler, downside is Viciedo but you're overpaying severely with the odds he's somewhere in the middle.

Edited November 19, 2014 by caulfield12

[Eminor3rd]

Yes I understand the international piece, and I think Moncada is worth two Adolfo's or whatever else you could get over the next two signing periods. There are a lot of cases where the guys that sign smaller contracts end up with ML success and guys that sign big bonuses fizzle out. In addition, you can sign 8 guys for $300K each of the next two seasons which would still be a pretty good haul. As of this point, when many of the top names for next years class are agreeing to deals with ML teams, the Sox are not a team that seem to have any deals in place with any of the top players based on McDaniels last international breakdown.

 

It's more than two Adolfos, it's like ten or twelve guys, unless you think they'll go bonkers this year and get a bunch of the OTHER top guys too since it's their last chance.

[Dick Allen]

Isn't one of the reasons teams are blowing through their limits is because they all know an International Draft is near?

 

 

[Kyyle23]

I like how international talent is now measured in how many Adolfos you could get. Move over bitcoin, this is the new new currency

[LDF]

It's more than two Adolfos, it's like ten or twelve guys, unless you think they'll go bonkers this year and get a bunch of the OTHER top guys too since it's their last chance.

 

let me go further by adding, the sox is in a nice position, great foundation of above

average prospects, now they need to get as many players in the org. you also have a

chance to get a heralded prospect for $$$. ok, blow thru the spending limits which you

may have to, to sign the young talent and go hog crazy in the int't market. sign

all that you can. you are going to get penalize, might as well be for something big.

 

it is the same penalty regardless of what you spend.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Isn't one of the reasons teams are blowing through their limits is because they all know an International Draft is near?

 

 

Probably so. There is a large incentive though in doing it DA. If you think the class of talent the following year isn't as good, I think it makes sense to go nuts and then sit out a year. Something I wish the Sox would do.

[harfman77]

It's more than two Adolfos, it's like ten or twelve guys, unless you think they'll go bonkers this year and get a bunch of the OTHER top guys too since it's their last chance.

 

They can still sign the 10 or 12 guys, just at $300K each. The Sox signed two guys this year for $900K and $750K respectively, everyone else has been under $300K. The can also double up by grabbing Andy Ibanez who has now defected as well. I used Adolfo as an example of high level players in the market so it would be two years of signing guys like Adolfo or two years of signing guys like Alfaro and Nunez. It is essentially trading four Domincan league players for one (or two) AA players and cash.

[harfman77]

Probably so. There is a large incentive though in doing it DA. If you think the class of talent the following year isn't as good, I think it makes sense to go nuts and then sit out a year. Something I wish the Sox would do.

 

Or if you can sign four years worth of talent in one year, it makes a lot of sense. You are not restricted from signing players in the other years, so you always have talent entering the system but you have top of the line talent entering the system every three years. Granted that the top of the line talent is very far from a sure thing, which is why I would not necessarily endorse that approach for 16 year old kids who spend most of their time showing off in batting practice and drills rather than in games. Some trainers will not let there kids play in games at all and will let scouts make their decisions based only on what they can see in the player showcases.

 

This is different to me because these players, Moncada and Ibanez, have played at a high level and had success both in their professional leagues and internationally. When you read McDaniels article that says Moncada is the most talented player to come from Cuba and that he can handle any position except for SS (though some think he could still stick there) it is a very appealing alternative to me.

[LDF]

Probably so. There is a large incentive though in doing it DA. If you think the class of talent the following year isn't as good, I think it makes sense to go nuts and then sit out a year. Something I wish the Sox would do.

 

it all depends on when a particular prospect gets posted, it will be that yr.

the 2016 yr of int'l prospects, If I remember right, seem to be the yr of good

potential. that class is headed by VLAD, I think son or some relative. I think

there was also talk of a very good pitcher.

 

either way, I am getting sidetrack. if the sox were really going for Yoan, it all depends

on when he gets posted.

[LDF]

Or if you can sign four years worth of talent in one year, it makes a lot of sense. You are not restricted from signing players in the other years, so you always have talent entering the system but you have top of the line talent entering the system every three years. Granted that the top of the line talent is very far from a sure thing, which is why I would not necessarily endorse that approach for 16 year old kids who spend most of their time showing off in batting practice and drills rather than in games. Some trainers will not let there kids play in games at all and will let scouts make their decisions based only on what they can see in the player showcases.

 

This is different to me because these players, Moncada and Ibanez, have played at a high level and had success

both in their professional leagues and internationally. When you read McDaniels article that says Moncada is the

most talented player to come from Cuba and that he can handle any position except for SS (though some think

he could still stick there) it is a very appealing alternative to me.

 

the main thing, if the sox signs Yoan or Ibanez, they are going to get penalize for surpassing the

signing limit. are they not?

[harfman77]

the main thing, if the sox signs Yoan or Ibanez, they are going to get penalize for surpassing the

signing limit. are they not?

 

Yes they will. It will be a large upfront investment, but, you gain high level controlled players. Basically you would be buying a top 10 prospect in the case of Moncada and a top 100 prospect in Ibanez. The upfront cost is steep, but if you look at the long term picture, Moncada can fill either or an OF spot or 3B for quite a while and Ibanez gives you depth at 2B with Semien and Sanchez graduated and Johnson not far behind. I think the penalties are worth the players as you cannot typically acquire this type of talent without dumping a major piece from your ML roster.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Ben Badler's latest doesn't even mention the White Sox as 8 most likely to sign Moncada: http://www.baseballamerica.com/internation...avorites-watch/

[BlackSox13]

If true, I suppose the Sox are look to spread their money out. Perhaps the Sox go after the Guerrero clan? Could mean the Sox already have deals in place so their money is already allocated. Suppose we will find out.

[Kyyle23]

Ben Badler's latest doesn't even mention the White Sox as 8 most likely to sign Moncada: http://www.baseballamerica.com/internation...avorites-watch/

 

Just out of curiosity, did he make a list like this last season with Abreu(and if he did, where did he have the Sox)

[Y2Jimmy0]

If true, I suppose the Sox are look to spread their money out. Perhaps the Sox go after the Guerrero clan? Could mean the Sox already have deals in place so their money is already allocated. Suppose we will find out.

 

 

I think the Cubs already have a deal in place with Vlad Jr.

[Dick Allen]

Just out of curiosity, did he make a list like this last season with Abreu(and if he did, where did he have the Sox)

In the comments section, someone mentioned why the Dodgers wouldn't be in on him and Badler replied who said they are not. So he is only speculating.

[BlackSox13]

I think the Cubs already have a deal in place with Vlad Jr.

No kidding? I missed that.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Ben Badler's latest doesn't even mention the White Sox as 8 most likely to sign Moncada: http://www.baseballamerica.com/internation...avorites-watch/

 

They don't hit his check lists. Personally I think the cap will keep the Sox from bidding.

[caulfield12]

Great, we can have Vlad Guerrero, Jr., Sandoval and Viciedo together...that should be pure entertainment. Talk about swinging at nearly ever ball thrown at them, no matter what the location.

 

Saw Guerrero's cousin play in Clinton (Midwest League) for the Mariners last year and he was far from impressive.

[witesoxfan]

Great, we can have Vlad Guerrero, Jr., Sandoval and Viciedo together...that should be pure entertainment. Talk about swinging at nearly ever ball thrown at them, no matter what the location.

 

Saw Guerrero's cousin play in Clinton (Midwest League) for the Mariners last year and he was far from impressive.

 

Vlad Jr is an elite level prospect who looks like incredibly similar to Vlad Sr.