Hank Conger traded to Astros

[Balta1701]

Yea, Flowers was 6th in the majors in CS %

I agree - how does one measure pitch calling or, for that matter, framing?

You've got 150 pitches or so caught per game by each catcher, you count up the number of strikes and balls per pitcher and compare it to the average. You can also measure how balls on the corner according to Pitch F/X are called.

[LDF]

You've got 150 pitches or so caught per game by each catcher, you count up the number of strikes and balls per pitcher and compare it to the average. You can also measure how balls on the corner according to Pitch F/X are called.

someone actually knows how it is done. great.

 

but let me ask, this doesn't include for a pitcher having a bad day.

it the pitcher has a bad day, it counts against the catcher. unless I

am reading this wrong.

[caulfield12]

someone actually knows how it is done. great.

 

but let me ask, this doesn't include for a pitcher having a bad day.

it the pitcher has a bad day, it counts against the catcher. unless I

am reading this wrong.

 

 

the idea is that over thousands of pitches, trends will develop between umpires and certain catchers getting the "benefit of the doubt" on "grey zone/corner or on the black" calls over others

 

of course, it would be hard to calculate exactly because some hitters are known for having such a precise strike zone that anything they don't swing at should be called a ball

Edited November 6, 2014 by caulfield12

[SoxAce]

No one has really said it, but Conger would have been a pretty good fit for us if they saw something they liked with him at the plate. Great defender, switch hitter, still surprisingly young.

He is also one of the best pitch framers in the game. Pretty nice trade for the Stros.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

No one has really said it, but Conger would have been a pretty good fit for us if they saw something they liked with him at the plate. Great defender, switch hitter, still surprisingly young.

I said it a whole bunch last year.

[AlSoxfan]

You've got 150 pitches or so caught per game by each catcher, you count up the number of strikes and balls per pitcher and compare it to the average. You can also measure how balls on the corner according to Pitch F/X are called.

In that case it doesn't look so good for Flowers, we seemed to walk quite a few batters this past season. Or maybe our pitchers just can't get it over the plate. In any case I'm also interested in how catchers are rated other than caught stealing%

I read something this past yr. on Lucroy an how he gets more strike calls than any other catcher. The thought was in part due to how low he sits behind the plate, giving the ump a better view...not sure how that would work but...I would think the relationship between the Ump an catcher might have a little to do with it also, just guessing though.

Our pitchers seem to like throwing to Flowers though and that says alot. But yea, looks like the the Astro's got a nice deal in Conger

[witesoxfan]

Tyler Flowers' 2014 is incredibly similar to Jason Castro's 2013? Except Flowers was worth 1.8 WAR and Castro 4.3? And yeah, no s*** to the other stuff, that's why we're even talking about the possibility of getting him.

 

No, we were talking about the possibility of gettnig him LAST offseason too. What I'm suggesting is that last year was the anomaly and this year was more normal. You're a numbers guy - look at Castro's career numbers and find the outlier.

 

This is also why I hate just saying "look at his WAR, that's how good he was!" Look into why he had a high WAR and you'll notice that he was due for some regression. He's better than Tyler Flowers, but he's not way, way better than Tyler Flowers.

 

I admittedly forgot how good Castro's numbers were in 2013, but he had a serious spike in his BABIP. Without cutting his strikeout rate a significant amount, I think we could see a similar regression for Flowers next year too. Just because you notice a spot of potential significant regression doesn't mean you splurge on someone who may simply not be that good.

 

If you can get him cheaply, that's fine, take a shot, but I can pretty much guarantee it's not going to be cheap.

[Eminor3rd]

Not that it's relevant to the Sox, but why did the Astros make this trade? They gave up 2 decent prospects for a player they don't seem to need.

 

Mike Fast works for the Astros, and he pretty much pioneered modern pitch-framing metrics. So, we don't really know how valuable pitch-framing is, but we know who the best framers are, and we know that Mike Fast thinks they're pretty valuable.

[harfman77]

This trade looks the Astros trying to get value out of a couple of guys they were going to need to move to open some spots on their 40 man roster.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I would definitely take Castro if the Astros are willing to sell low on him.

[LDF]

Mike Fast works for the Astros, and he pretty much pioneered modern pitch-framing metrics. So, we don't really know how valuable pitch-framing is, but we know who the best framers are, and we know that Mike Fast thinks they're pretty valuable.

 

with all the new info that was mention yesterday about how a catcher

gets rated.

 

thanks to all for sharing.

[Dick Allen]

with all the new info that was mention yesterday about how a catcher

gets rated.

 

thanks to all for sharing.

The different framing numbers show different results for many catchers. Flowers is awful in one and #11 in the other.

 

One thing is constant, Salty is the worst in baseball in both.

[GreenSox]

And one of the most important aspects, pitch calling, is unmeasurable. From what I've read, Flowers is highly favored in that regard.

 

[ILMOU]

Castro just 2 years from FA at this point. Not really fitting the profile of what Hahn wants. Ship has likely sailed and we'll be rolling with TFLow, imo, as bigger needs are now elsewhere.

[Jerksticks]

And one of the most important aspects, pitch calling, is unmeasurable. From what I've read, Flowers is highly favored in that regard.

Flo is fine to have on a competing team. Viciedo? No.