Sox acquire Jeff Samardzija and Michael Ynoa

[Eminor3rd]

Here's my thoughts for whatever they're worth

Alexei just won the silver sluggers award and was a finalist for the gold glove. I think he's one of the best SS in baseball right now and I do not see him declining as bad as most people seem to think he will. He's cheap at 10 mil for the next 2 yrs. Our defense was terrible the last 2 yrs. and to replace him with a lesser SS would only make it worse. He still steals bases pretty often an his bat is pretty darn good for a SS. Trading him to fill another hole just seems foolish right now, if indeed we're trying to win the div. I do not believe we have a good enough ss ready to fill in right now. I think the best we have ready is L. Garcia. The fact that so many other teams are looking for an established ss tells me maybe we should hang on to ours. Give em LGar or whoever else we have other than Anderson. ss's are worth more to me than outfielders or bullpen arms.(2 of our remaining holes). I guess I value Lexi more than most.

 

Alexei is good, but the Silver Slugger was propped up by a super strong first half that turned into a pretty ugly second half that feels closer to his true talent based on his career arc. I mean, he hasn't hit as well as he did during the first half of 2015 since the year he broke into the league. And the gold glove means nothing -- he's been robbed of it in the past, but both the eyeballs and the sabermetrics agree that he's lost a step on the field over the past couple years, and there's no reason to believe that won't continue as he ages.

 

I think Alexei is a good player who is pretty close to turning into an average player. We have a bunch of holes to fill, and he's our best chance at spreading our talent around the diamond and turning it into some more future control. I think our in house options for a replacement need a shot to stick, and I think that even if they all fail to hit, we have some good options defensively that will not be so bad as a fallback option.

 

I'd like to see us try to move him.

[Balta1701]

Do you rate Saladino as a better defensive SS than L. Garcia's and Diaz? Again, irrespective of offensive ability. I'm asking only about defensive prowess.

Do you think that Sanchez, who is purportedly much better suited for 2ND, is defensively behind all three of the players just mentioned? I'm surprised, as I

thought that Saladino was just barely adequate defensively, but had a decent bat.

I'd say that Sanchez seems to be behind those players.

 

I have no reason to have any confidence in Diaz and no one can figure out why you do. Just looking at the general numbers, Saladino gets more putouts per game, suggesting he gets to more balls, turns more DP/game, and has shown improvement in cutting down on his errors and improving his fielding %age that Diaz, despite being older, has not shown. I find no reason in the numbers to think that Diaz is as good as Saladino and that Saladino has much more potential to get better.

 

Maybe that's somehow all in the pitching staff and we can't make a 100% determination from minor league fielding statistics, but Saladino's season last year is solidly better than Diaz's season last year on a per-game basis. No one would look at a 25 year old piling up that many errors without picking up a high number of putouts and expect them to be an elite defender.

 

L. Garcia I can only go based on what I saw in the big leagues and he didn't overly impress at any position. Now that's certainly affected by the fact that they never put him at any position to give him a shot, but he looked like a jack of all trades, master of none. Put him at SS in AAA for a full half season and maybe I change my tune on that, but as of now Leury's in that "I can't ever remember being impressed by his fielding" file.

[iamshack]

Alexei is good, but the Silver Slugger was propped up by a super strong first half that turned into a pretty ugly second half that feels closer to his true talent based on his career arc. I mean, he hasn't hit as well as he did during the first half of 2015 since the year he broke into the league. And the gold glove means nothing -- he's been robbed of it in the past, but both the eyeballs and the sabermetrics agree that he's lost a step on the field over the past couple years, and there's no reason to believe that won't continue as he ages.

 

I think Alexei is a good player who is pretty close to turning into an average player. We have a bunch of holes to fill, and he's our best chance at spreading our talent around the diamond and turning it into some more future control. I think our in house options for a replacement need a shot to stick, and I think that even if they all fail to hit, we have some good options defensively that will not be so bad as a fallback option.

 

I'd like to see us try to move him.

Yeah, they need to move him while he still has value. You just know that come July his value will have taken a huge hit.

 

It's really the most obvious trade Hahn needs to make this offseason.

[Vance Law]

Do you rate Saladino as a better defensive SS than L. Garcia's and Diaz? Again, irrespective of offensive ability. I'm asking only about defensive prowess.

Do you think that Sanchez, who is purportedly much better suited for 2ND, is defensively behind all three of the players just mentioned? I'm surprised, as I

thought that Saladino was just barely adequate defensively, but had a decent bat.

 

To begin the year, Saladino played pretty much all of the first 35 games at shortstop and Sanchez all at 2nd base for Charlotte Is that because the Sox consider Saladino the better shortstop? Is it because they had Sanchez higher on the depth chart and foresaw Beckham being likely traded at some point in the season and Sanchez as a the next option at 2nd? I don't know. We can presume that Saladino has an arm more suited to SS I think. I did note his much higher DP totals compared to Semien or Sanchez at SS.

 

I'll assume Semien is considered the worst SS defender, Sanchez has the best range (and maybe hands) and Saladino the best arm.

[Dick Allen]

On a broadcast at the beginning of September, they showed a graphic which gave SS points, x amount for making a routine play, another amount for making plays considered out of regular range, and Alexei had basically clinched the win with a month to play. I think the story of his demise is being exaggerated just as they have been the past few years. If they do trade him and don't sign a replacement, I think many will find out he was a bit better than they think. A poor defensive team taking a step back defensively at SS is going to make all those who think the Sox don't have a chance next year correct.

 

Only 8 SS had a higher WAR in 2014, 3 of those only .1 higher, so for what he gets paid, and considering he was only going to get worse 2 years ago, I wouldn't get rid of him unless you are very sure you have a legitimate replacement.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Dick Allen

[Lemon_44]

Instead of Cespedes and Samardzija, I'd rather trade for Homer Bailey and Jay Bruce.

[Lillian]

I'd say that Sanchez seems to be behind those players.

 

I have no reason to have any confidence in Diaz and no one can figure out why you do. Just looking at the general numbers, Saladino gets more putouts per game, suggesting he gets to more balls, turns more DP/game, and has shown improvement in cutting down on his errors and improving his fielding %age that Diaz, despite being older, has not shown. I find no reason in the numbers to think that Diaz is as good as Saladino and that Saladino has much more potential to get better.

 

Maybe that's somehow all in the pitching staff and we can't make a 100% determination from minor league fielding statistics, but Saladino's season last year is solidly better than Diaz's season last year on a per-game basis.

 

L. Garcia I can only go based on what I saw in the big leagues and he didn't overly impress at any position. Now that's certainly affected by the fact that they never put him at any position to give him a shot, but he looked like a jack of all trades, master of none. Put him at SS in AAA for a full half season and maybe I change my tune on that, but as of now Leury's in that "I can't ever remember being impressed by his fielding" file.

 

Let me clarify my previous comments about Diaz. I've never seen him play, and really know nothing about him, except what I have recently read, and

sighted here. You may recall, I posted a bunch of quotes from various sources on the Net. Those comments seem to all suggest that he is a good defensive SS,

with a canon for an arm. I'm the one who can't figure out why so many here have an entirely different assessment.

 

I'm not advocating that he be given playing time, I'm simply trying to get an objective and accurate scouting report on him.

[caulfield12]

Is the uptick in production in LF, rotation and in the bullpen capable of compensating for the downgrade at SS? Can three spots be patched with $25 million and not trading Alexei?

 

Perhaps.

 

But it's still very hard to imagine competing in 2015 with any of our internal options playing SS for 145+ games.

 

Unless we had real information about what options were available to Hahn on the trade market, it's just impossible to calculate whether trading him is/was worth it or not.

[Vance Law]

While the speculation seems to have temporarily abated, could we step back for a moment and examine the bigger picture?

Most would agree that there are still 3 holes remaining to be filled. A corner outfielder, a RH Starting pitcher and a bullpen arm, preferably a closer.

There is still considerable money available, with estimates of around $25 Million of payroll flexibility for this coming season.

There is also the possibility of a trade, as evidenced by the recent rumors.

 

My question is which trade chip would you most willingly offer, to help fill at least one of the remaining holes?

 

I'd like the Sox to get creative in dealing Danks. If we can't get a salary swap for one of the Dodgers OFs, perhaps they could send him to Pittsburgh along with a bunch of cash for Travis Snider.

 

Someone says: but that's too much money to pay to get Snider!!

 

Yes, but Danks money is already spent. Danks + free agent OF costs WAY MORE than Snider/cash to Pirates + Bassit/Rodon

 

Other than that, I'd rather see Sanchez traded than Semien

[SoCalSox]

Welp, sure seems like Jim Benson was full of s*** or jumped the gun on his original tweet Friday night...

 

Hate getting myself overly excited for absolutely nothing to happen.

 

Ultimately, it seems to be better if the Sox don't trade valuable pieces for a 1 year rental when they could get something similar for simply money on the FA market.

[Dick Allen]

Welp, sure seems like Jim Benson was full of s*** or jumped the gun on his original tweet Friday night...

 

Hate getting myself overly excited for absolutely nothing to happen.

 

Ultimately, it seems to be better if the Sox don't trade valuable pieces for a 1 year rental when they could get something similar for simply money on the FA market.

I figured if it didn't go down yesterday, no dice for the weekend. I think Sunday news in the offseason is pretty rare. Plus the Tribune said nothing was close. I am still intriqued by Anderson's sad faces tweet. Apparently he blocked the people that asked him about Oakland.

[Bob Sacamano]

I'd like the Sox to get creative in dealing Danks. If we can't get a salary swap for one of the Dodgers OFs, perhaps they could send him to Pittsburgh along with a bunch of cash for Travis Snider.

 

Someone says: but that's too much money to pay to get Snider!!

 

Yes, but Danks money is already spent. Danks + free agent OF costs WAY MORE than Snider/cash to Pirates + Bassit/Rodon

 

Other than that, I'd rather see Sanchez traded than Semien

 

Not a big Snider fan personally

[Balta1701]

Let me clarify my previous comments about Diaz. I've never seen him play, and really know nothing about him, except what I have recently read, and

sighted here. You may recall, I posted a bunch of quotes from various sources on the Net. Those comments seem to all suggest that he is a good defensive SS,

with a canon for an arm. I'm the one who can't figure out why so many here have an entirely different assessment.

 

I'm not advocating that he be given playing time, I'm simply trying to get an objective and accurate scouting report on him.

For a guy to be a solid fielder, I'd expect to see 1 of 2 things in his stats, either he puts up few errors (is fairly reliable) or he gets to a ton of balls per game. Diaz does neither of those. Saladino outdid him on both of those last year. There's always a small caveat related to "Maybe Charlotte had a ton of ground ball pitchers and Diaz's team didn't" that could play into it, but even then Diaz still has piled up the errors at every single stop and shows no sign of getting better.

[AlSoxfan]

Welp, sure seems like Jim Benson was full of s*** or jumped the gun on his original tweet Friday night...

 

Hate getting myself overly excited for absolutely nothing to happen.

 

Ultimately, it seems to be better if the Sox don't trade valuable pieces for a 1 year rental when they could get something similar for simply money on the FA market.

lol...Yea I'm guilty of getting excited myself. I don't know weather to be happy or bummed because I don't know who we where trading, but I would have liked to have gotten Shark in our rotation.

[iamshack]

On a broadcast at the beginning of September, they showed a graphic which gave SS points, x amount for making a routine play, another amount for making plays considered out of regular range, and Alexei had basically clinched the win with a month to play. I think the story of his demise is being exaggerated just as they have been the past few years. If they do trade him and don't sign a replacement, I think many will find out he was a bit better than they think. A poor defensive team taking a step back defensively at SS is going to make all those who think the Sox don't have a chance next year correct.

 

Only 8 SS had a higher WAR in 2014, 3 of those only .1 higher, so for what he gets paid, and considering he was only going to get worse 2 years ago, I wouldn't get rid of him unless you are very sure you have a legitimate replacement.

I just think the reward is potentially greater than the slight risk that we are actually going going to be truly competitive in August/September.

 

Now if he don't get any decent offers, I'm not in favor of trading him for the sake of making a trade. But if we get a chance to acquire a piece for the next several years, you've got to take it.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

I figured if it didn't go down yesterday, no dice for the weekend. I think Sunday news in the offseason is pretty rare. Plus the Tribune said nothing was close. I am still intriqued by Anderson's sad faces tweet. Apparently he blocked the people that asked him about Oakland.

Ya that's weird. Why block em if they ask about Oakland? Seems about right.

[flavum]

Welp, sure seems like Jim Benson was full of s*** or jumped the gun on his original tweet Friday night...

 

Hate getting myself overly excited for absolutely nothing to happen.

 

Ultimately, it seems to be better if the Sox don't trade valuable pieces for a 1 year rental when they could get something similar for simply money on the FA market.

 

I don't think this guy was trying to get attention or made something up out of nothing. Like it was mentioned, they usually don't announce stuff on Sunday's during the football season, so maybe it will happen in the next few days. The Winter Meetings are in a week, and I think it's likely Samardzija is on a different team before they start.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Do you rate Saladino as a better defensive SS than L. Garcia's and Diaz? Again, irrespective of offensive ability. I'm asking only about defensive prowess.

Do you think that Sanchez, who is purportedly much better suited for 2ND, is defensively behind all three of the players just mentioned? I'm surprised, as I

thought that Saladino was just barely adequate defensively, but had a decent bat.

I don't think there are too many people qualified to say who is the best defensive SS among the AAA and above bunch on this website and even among scouts there might be differences of opinion considering all the young men involved are not finished products defensively or offensively.

 

I thimk you're trying to force the issue a little too much but that's ok because you enjoy the interaction with fellow fans. At this point I'll just let December January and February unfold and whatever happens the team should be improved for next year . Beyond that there are still more surprises to come. .

Edited December 1, 2014 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Chicago White Sox]

Other than that, I'd rather see Sanchez traded than Semien

100% agree. Sanchez is a nice little prospect, but his upside is incredibly limited. Semien has a ton of potential with the bat, but I think his lack of loud tools causes some posters to sleep on him a bit. That and him being forced onto the major league roster last year before he was ready and struggling as a result.

 

The kid outhit super prospect Joc Pederson in the Southern League in 2013 on his way to winning league MVP. Last year he was incredibly productive at AAA, which carried over into his second stint with the Sox last September. Marcus has pretty much dominated the upper level of the minors and deserves a legit shot at a starting job with the Sox. Giving Sanchez a starting job over Semien would be a huge mistake IMO.

[Balta1701]

100% agree. Sanchez is a nice little prospect, but his upside is incredibly limited. Semien has a ton of potential with the bat, but I think his lack of loud tools causes some posters to sleep on him a bit. That and him being forced onto the major league roster last year before he was ready and struggling as a result.

 

The kid outhit super prospect Joc Pederson in the Southern League in 2013 on his way to winning league MVP. Last year he was incredibly productive at AAA, which carried over into his second stint with the Sox last September. Marcus has pretty much dominated the upper level of the minors and deserves a legit shot at a starting job with the Sox. Giving Sanchez a starting job over Semien would be a huge mistake IMO.

The problem is I think you're counting only one side of the ball and I think that Sanchez is right now a much better defender than Semien at 2b. With development and work, Semien could improve, but that is an issue.

 

I think there's enough at bats for Semien moving around between 3b, DH, 2b, and maybe corner OF depending on who they bring in, and that might give him time to work on both the bat and the defense while we see if he can earn a permanent spot. That would take advantage of Sanchez being a better defender and give them both a chance to adapt to the big leagues.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On a broadcast at the beginning of September, they showed a graphic which gave SS points, x amount for making a routine play, another amount for making plays considered out of regular range, and Alexei had basically clinched the win with a month to play. I think the story of his demise is being exaggerated just as they have been the past few years. If they do trade him and don't sign a replacement, I think many will find out he was a bit better than they think. A poor defensive team taking a step back defensively at SS is going to make all those who think the Sox don't have a chance next year correct.

 

Only 8 SS had a higher WAR in 2014, 3 of those only .1 higher, so for what he gets paid, and considering he was only going to get worse 2 years ago, I wouldn't get rid of him unless you are very sure you have a legitimate replacement.

The "we love Alexei but father time never backs down" group which includes me isn't really thinking about a replacement for him but getting more controllable talent either in the farm or ML ready. He's a trade chip that still has plenty of value which is why many don't want him to go but the Sox are filled with stars and stiffs and we just need more talent. The fact that Alexei is pretty much our only realistic movable trade chip among the position players bears that out.

 

Are you confident that some of our better players from last year won't regress. ? Flowers ? Gillaspe ? Quintana , Sale, Eaton , Abreu may all have just had career years. It's hard to say that considering they all are just getting started but it might be true . We know Alexei isn't going to get better but others are also candidates for regression and more talent around the core needs to be addressed.

Edited December 1, 2014 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[LDF]

The problem is I think you're counting only one side of the ball and I think that Sanchez is right now a much better defender than Semien at 2b. With development and work, Semien could improve, but that is an issue.

 

I think there's enough at bats for Semien moving around between 3b, DH, 2b, and maybe corner OF depending on who they bring in, and that might give him time to work on both the bat and the defense while we see if he can earn a permanent spot. That would take advantage of Sanchez being a better defender and give them both a chance to adapt to the big leagues.

 

i have always thought that he might be the person to take over there, but

i was reminded by posters that he hardly ever played there.

 

nice conversation going btw.

[Balta1701]

i have always thought that he might be the person to take over there, but

i was reminded by posters that he hardly ever played there.

 

nice conversation going btw.

They worked him there a tiny bit in the minors last year and I wouldn't be surprised to see him there a few times this year if they bring in a LH hitting OF, but we absolutely can't pencil him in as a starter there on a plausibly competitive team.

 

Which of course, brings up the fact that this is decision week regarding what we're going to do with the corner OF on our roster.

[Dick Allen]

The "we love Alexei but father time never backs down" group which includes me isn't really thinking about a replacement for him but getting more controllable talent either in the farm or ML ready. He's a trade chip that still has plenty of value which is why many don't want him to go but the Sox are filled with stars and stiffs and we just need more talent. The fact that Alexei is pretty much our only realistic movable trade chip among the position players bears that out.

Are you confident that some of our better players from last year won't regress. ? Flowers ? Gillaspe ? Quintana , Sale, Eaton , Abreu may all have just had career years. It's hard to say that considering they all are just getting started but it might be true . We know Alexei isn't going to get better but others are also candidates for regression and more talent around the core needs to be addressed.

I don't know how we all know Alexei won't be better. 2 years ago he dropped to a 1.9 WAR and it was said he is on the downslope and only going to get worse. The next year he puts up a 3.1 WAR, and last season a 3.3 , when again, he is supposedly just going to get worse. Steamer projects a 2.3 next season, which supposedly is good for $10 million. If they do trade him, if it is for a Davidson like prospect that doesn't pan out, it will be a godawful trade, even if people post the "you make that trade 10 times out of 10". BS. Edited December 1, 2014 by Dick Allen

[Vance Law]

Not a big Snider fan personally

 

But do you like him more than John Danks?