ptatc Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 9, 2014 -> 08:23 AM) Wait, what? Are you saying Bassitt is the Gio of this trade or the possibility of Danish being involved is the Gio of this trade? I'm saying Bassitt is the one that will be the piece they will miss. If Danish is involved it not a good trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2014 -> 08:22 AM) I agree the white sox didn't give up a lot, but that doesn't mean I like the concept of going all in on 2015. I can satisfy myself with the fact that such an "all in" kind of move means that in the event it fails, which I still think is likely, I shouldn't have to put up with another Ventura coaching embarrassment season. I would have agreed with that if Abreu hadn't shown so much promise. Right now the sox have a 4 year or so window with a cost controlled team. Sale, Q and Abreu will start becoming really expensive so you need to start the playoff opportunities. It will be Venturas head on the block this year. He will have a fairly talented pitching staff to lean on. The pen killed him last year, part of which was Hahn dealing away one of his only semi-dependable pitchers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 9, 2014 -> 08:26 AM) Let's hope he is the next Nestor Molina/Zach Stewart... From another point of view, at the Winter Meetings last December, if Erik Johnson and Semien were traded for a one-year rental player, everyone on the board would have gone insane saying Hahn was pulling another KW and bankrupting the farm system. We're to the point where this type of move makes a lot more sense, especially if they can get an extension signed. If not, you don't have to worry about another $100+ million pitcher's arm falling off at least. Actually, I wish him well. The sox needed to give up something to get a quality pitcher, even if for one year. I hope he does well, which is not guaranteed, but I think he will be a capable 4-5 starter this year for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 9, 2014 -> 08:26 AM) Disagree with that. How many blown saves did they have last year? I'm not a fan of the "save" stat but what it says about last year's team is that they lost a lot of games late that they should have won. Robertson and Duke alone will improve this. Now add JS and RV won't need to go to the pen, let alone inferior pen talent as often, and you get to .500. I don't think they are a favorite for a playoff spot yet but they are getting close to competing for it. Plus, when you are playing 40 games or so out of contention and winning isn't the most important thing, the 73 win total may not be the most accurate number as to the talent level. Garcia should be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 9, 2014 -> 09:26 AM) Disagree with that. How many blown saves did they have last year? I'm not a fan of the "save" stat but what it says about last year's team is that they lost a lot of games late that they should have won. Robertson and Duke alone will improve this. Now add JS and RV won't need to go to the pen, let alone inferior pen talent as often, and you get to .500. I don't think they are a favorite for a playoff spot yet but they are getting close to competing for it. They had 21 blown saves in 57 chances. That was bad but it wasn't nearly the worst in the league. In fact, Oakland was worse and made the play in game, yet Billy Beane thinks his roster isn't there and is selling it all off. We also were towards the bottom of the league in going to the bullpen anyway, so "not needing to go to the pen" won't be very different from what we saw last year. Considering that teams often still win a small fraction of the games that they lose due to blown saves, getting to .500 with just improvement in the bullpen would require the White Sox not just to improve the pen to average, it would require them to improve to the best bullpen in the league from one of the worst. Do you think this pen is comparable to Kansas City? Oh, by the way, the White Sox's save percentage last year was 63%. The Yankees, with Robertson and Betances, was 69%. The Yankees were middle of the pack in that number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2014 -> 06:22 AM) I agree the white sox didn't give up a lot, but that doesn't mean I like the concept of going all in on 2015. I can satisfy myself with the fact that such an "all in" kind of move means that in the event it fails, which I still think is likely, I shouldn't have to put up with another Ventura coaching embarrassment season. Yeah, I feel the same way...I can deal with the Shark move I guess because of the draft comp, but the Robertson move frightens me a bit. I'm glad if we were stuck on committing a lot of money to a reliever in this FA class it was Robertson and not Miller, but it's still a frightening commitment. Other than the draft comp they'll give up for Robertson, they haven't done much to alter their path, which is likely why Kenny was able to convince Hahn to gamble a bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2014 -> 08:39 AM) The Yankees, with Robertson and Betances, was 69%. The Yankees were middle of the pack in that number. What the hell is this supposed to prove? Robertson was at 89 percent on his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2014 -> 08:39 AM) They had 21 blown saves in 57 chances. That was bad but it wasn't nearly the worst in the league. In fact, Oakland was worse and made the play in game, yet Billy Beane thinks his roster isn't there and is selling it all off. We also were towards the bottom of the league in going to the bullpen anyway, so "not needing to go to the pen" won't be very different from what we saw last year. Considering that teams often still win a small fraction of the games that they lose due to blown saves, getting to .500 with just improvement in the bullpen would require the White Sox not just to improve the pen to average, it would require them to improve to the best bullpen in the league from one of the worst. Do you think this pen is comparable to Kansas City? Oh, by the way, the White Sox's save percentage last year was 63%. The Yankees, with Robertson and Betances, was 69%. The Yankees were middle of the pack in that number. Great post Getting guys off the field who can't play D will help a lot as well. Alexei is really valuable to this team as it stands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 9, 2014 -> 09:41 AM) What the hell is this supposed to prove? Robertson was at 89 percent on his own. That fixing the bullpen with the additions we've done doesn't bring us nearly as far as people are thinking. It helps, no doubt, but people who are saying "oh if only we'd blown 10 fewer saves we'd have been a .500 team" are doing an exercise that doesn't work that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2014 -> 06:43 AM) That fixing the bullpen with the additions we've done doesn't bring us nearly as far as people are thinking. It helps, no doubt, but people who are saying "oh if only we'd blown 10 fewer saves we'd have been a .500 team" are doing an exercise that doesn't work that way. I smell what you're stepping in, but you've got to start somewhere. Bringing in two guys hopefully will really create some big incremental improvements. Edited December 9, 2014 by iamshack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2014 -> 08:39 AM) They had 21 blown saves in 57 chances. That was bad but it wasn't nearly the worst in the league. In fact, Oakland was worse and made the play in game, yet Billy Beane thinks his roster isn't there and is selling it all off. We also were towards the bottom of the league in going to the bullpen anyway, so "not needing to go to the pen" won't be very different from what we saw last year. Considering that teams often still win a small fraction of the games that they lose due to blown saves, getting to .500 with just improvement in the bullpen would require the White Sox not just to improve the pen to average, it would require them to improve to the best bullpen in the league from one of the worst. Do you think this pen is comparable to Kansas City? Oh, by the way, the White Sox's save percentage last year was 63%. The Yankees, with Robertson and Betances, was 69%. The Yankees were middle of the pack in that number. How many times was there not a save opportunity because of the bullpen? It never hurts strengthening the bullpen. The Royals were 71-1 when leading after 6 innings in 2014. They needed every one of those. I am a bit shocked the Sox went where they did for Robertson, but the guy is good. I was listening in the car last season and Farmio was going on about how Rivera taught Robertson his cutter, and Robertson got to 500 strikeouts faster than Mariano. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2014 -> 08:39 AM) They had 21 blown saves in 57 chances. That was bad but it wasn't nearly the worst in the league. In fact, Oakland was worse and made the play in game, yet Billy Beane thinks his roster isn't there and is selling it all off. We also were towards the bottom of the league in going to the bullpen anyway, so "not needing to go to the pen" won't be very different from what we saw last year. Considering that teams often still win a small fraction of the games that they lose due to blown saves, getting to .500 with just improvement in the bullpen would require the White Sox not just to improve the pen to average, it would require them to improve to the best bullpen in the league from one of the worst. Do you think this pen is comparable to Kansas City? Oh, by the way, the White Sox's save percentage last year was 63%. The Yankees, with Robertson and Betances, was 69%. The Yankees were middle of the pack in that number. It is no where near KC but it's substantially better. i think that teams with average bullpens may fall into the category winning a small fraction of games do to blown saves. Chicago's was awful. The new bullpen guys will make a significant difference and JS will help even more. The sox had one of the lowest "needing to go to the pen" because no one truted it. now they will be able to go to some with confidence. Another 200 inning starter will improve this even more. This is the primary advantage JS brings. A 200 inning pitcher is highly valuable especially with a staff where the top of the rotation doesn't pitch alot of innings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) Levine saying on the score that samardzija has not been told he's been traded yet. Made a good point...they're going for it all for this and next year....they have to spend more to reach that goal. Because this team even after these moves probably doesn't make the playoffs. Edited December 9, 2014 by Real Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlSoxfan Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 9, 2014 -> 09:26 AM) Disagree with that. How many blown saves did they have last year? I'm not a fan of the "save" stat but what it says about last year's team is that they lost a lot of games late that they should have won. Robertson and Duke alone will improve this. Now add JS and RV won't need to go to the pen, let alone inferior pen talent as often, and you get to .500. I don't think they are a favorite for a playoff spot yet but they are getting close to competing for it. I agree, although I might be a little more enthusiastic right now. The Robertson signing surprised me and I think will help a bunch. I'm not sure about others but I'm ready to watch some White Sox baseball right now. A corner OF would be nice of course but I'm pretty happy with how things have turned out so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 QUOTE (Real @ Dec 9, 2014 -> 08:47 AM) Levine saying on the score that samardzija has not been told he's been traded yet. As well as the other players which is why they haven't announced anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) Levine said it's going to be a minor league pitcher going as the third guy. Seemed like he just found out on the air, but won't say a name. Edited December 9, 2014 by Buehrle>Wood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 9, 2014 -> 08:50 AM) Levine said it's going to be a minor league pitcher going as the third guy. Seemed like he just found out on the air, but won't say a name. He doesn't know anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 9, 2014 -> 08:19 AM) Debatable. I take Q over Shark. But I'm extremely glad to have both. It is the kind of debate I am thrilled we get to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Dec 9, 2014 -> 08:08 AM) The rotation wouldn't be 2 lefties in a row, and Shark is better than Quintana anyway, he'd be #2. Not sure that Q is on the roster in the spring anyway. There was a rumor on here last week that he might be moved to upgrade the OF in the form of Jay Bruce. I still think Jose Hernandez could be in play at 2B when he is declared a FA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 9, 2014 -> 08:28 AM) I'm saying Bassitt is the one that will be the piece they will miss. If Danish is involved it not a good trade. Pretty much everyone thinks the writing is on the wall for him to be a reliever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2014 -> 08:39 AM) They had 21 blown saves in 57 chances. That was bad but it wasn't nearly the worst in the league. In fact, Oakland was worse and made the play in game, yet Billy Beane thinks his roster isn't there and is selling it all off. We also were towards the bottom of the league in going to the bullpen anyway, so "not needing to go to the pen" won't be very different from what we saw last year. Considering that teams often still win a small fraction of the games that they lose due to blown saves, getting to .500 with just improvement in the bullpen would require the White Sox not just to improve the pen to average, it would require them to improve to the best bullpen in the league from one of the worst. Do you think this pen is comparable to Kansas City? Oh, by the way, the White Sox's save percentage last year was 63%. The Yankees, with Robertson and Betances, was 69%. The Yankees were middle of the pack in that number. Blown saves may literally be one of the worst stats out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 QUOTE (flavum @ Dec 9, 2014 -> 08:51 AM) He doesn't know anything. He probably does, he is just more worried about protecting his source than actually reporting. But once it comes out, he will be sure to say he knew it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 9, 2014 -> 10:07 AM) Blown saves may literally be one of the worst stats out there. I think it does make one important point - that it takes an exceptionally good bullpen to make a large difference in a team's record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 lol, just got the email about how the "pick 14" ticket plans go on sale in 1 hour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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