Sox acquire Jeff Samardzija and Michael Ynoa

[cabiness42]

Given the difference in what it would take to acquire each pitcher, why not Jon Niese over Jeff S? Yes, Jeff has a higher ceiling, but Niese is two years younger and under team control for 2-4 more years.

 

Please don't say it's because he's a lefty. The best starters are the best starters. There is no such thing as too many lefties.

[bmags]

I continue to say that as a GM I would not give up a "young bullpen arm" for Dayan Viciedo. I'd rather have the young bullpen arm.

 

I have a feeling that on other message boards, there are fellas clamoring to trade for Dayan Viciedo, who hit for high power and is still young. He can help blah blah blah.

 

 

Sort of like how Delmon Young was just mentioned.

 

 

[Jerksticks]

I have a feeling that on other message boards, there are fellas clamoring to trade for Dayan Viciedo, who hit for high power and is still young. He can help blah blah blah.

 

 

Sort of like how Delmon Young was just mentioned.

 

Haha yes. I have a new way of looking at Tank. For 5 springs and summers i was stuck in the image of gordon beckham's potential. No way we can trade him, remember '09?!? Then he was traded and i didn't give a f*** all of a sudden. Same thing with DV but now even longer. I'm ready to just not give a f*** anymore

[witesoxfan]

Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 10h10 hours ago

 

Pitches thrown in reg. season:Samardzija 12,567; Lester 26,321; Scherzer 20,944; Cueto 19,518; Hamels 27,886; Price 19,336; Shields 29,461.

 

I just want to note how much I hate these types of statistics. This acts as if Samardzija's arm is fresh and young despite his age. Between college, the minors, and the pros, Jeff Samardzija has thrown over 1,500 innings. Are they going to be saying the same thing about Jake Arrieta in 2 years too when he's "only" thrown 12,000 pitches? Because between college, the minors, and the pros, he's already thrown 1,269 innings.

 

I mean, if you looked at this and solely this, you'd assume that Lester has throws more than twice the number of innings. In reality, he's thrown fewer than 600 more. Max Scherzer has only thrown 100 more innings. Just because a guy has only thrown in the MLB for so long doesn't mean there isn't extra mileage on his arm.

[ptatc]

I just want to note how much I hate these types of statistics. This acts as if Samardzija's arm is fresh and young despite his age. Between college, the minors, and the pros, Jeff Samardzija has thrown over 1,500 innings. Are they going to be saying the same thing about Jake Arrieta in 2 years too when he's "only" thrown 12,000 pitches? Because between college, the minors, and the pros, he's already thrown 1,269 innings.

 

I mean, if you looked at this and solely this, you'd assume that Lester has throws more than twice the number of innings. In reality, he's thrown fewer than 600 more. Max Scherzer has only thrown 100 more innings. Just because a guy has only thrown in the MLB for so long doesn't mean there isn't extra mileage on his arm.

This is true to an extent. However, there is something to be said for the number of stressful pitches thrown. As someone cliombs the ladder from high school to college to the pro levels the competition increases and so does the quality of pitches they must throw. This will wear on the arm just like warmup throws are different than game situation. The same applies for the regular season vs. the post-season.

[Eminor3rd]

I just want to note how much I hate these types of statistics. This acts as if Samardzija's arm is fresh and young despite his age. Between college, the minors, and the pros, Jeff Samardzija has thrown over 1,500 innings. Are they going to be saying the same thing about Jake Arrieta in 2 years too when he's "only" thrown 12,000 pitches? Because between college, the minors, and the pros, he's already thrown 1,269 innings.

 

I mean, if you looked at this and solely this, you'd assume that Lester has throws more than twice the number of innings. In reality, he's thrown fewer than 600 more. Max Scherzer has only thrown 100 more innings. Just because a guy has only thrown in the MLB for so long doesn't mean there isn't extra mileage on his arm.

 

While all those other guys were in the minors, Jeff was working at Best Buy. Duh.

[witesoxfan]

This is true to an extent. However, there is something to be said for the number of stressful pitches thrown. As someone cliombs the ladder from high school to college to the pro levels the competition increases and so does the quality of pitches they must throw. This will wear on the arm just like warmup throws are different than game situation. The same applies for the regular season vs. the post-season.

 

I don't disagree with any of this, and frankly none of these would deter me from signing those players given the right circumstances, just that those "MLB pitches thrown" are misleading as hell. Just because a guy hasn't thrown a lot of pitches in the MLB because he came up late or started in the bullpen doesn't simply negate the effect the previous pitching experience has had on his arm. Frankly, some of those pitches were "saved" when he was throwing out of the bullpen, but those pitches don't include side work or warm up sessions nor does it include the ramped up intensity of those innings.

 

Samardzija seems like he has smooth mechanics and he was arguably better in the 2nd half than the 1st half last year (which has been a concern), but there are a lot of other things worth considering here.

 

Personally, I wouldn't give up Anderson nor Semien for him, but I absolutely love both players. I'd give up any other minor leaguer in the system eligible to be traded for him at this point. I just don't think trading Anderson or Semien bodes well for the long-term health of the organization because it seems to be that those two both provide very good value long-term in multiple different ways.

[ptatc]

I don't disagree with any of this, and frankly none of these would deter me from signing those players given the right circumstances, just that those "MLB pitches thrown" are misleading as hell. Just because a guy hasn't thrown a lot of pitches in the MLB because he came up late or started in the bullpen doesn't simply negate the effect the previous pitching experience has had on his arm. Frankly, some of those pitches were "saved" when he was throwing out of the bullpen, but those pitches don't include side work or warm up sessions nor does it include the ramped up intensity of those innings.

 

Samardzija seems like he has smooth mechanics and he was arguably better in the 2nd half than the 1st half last year (which has been a concern), but there are a lot of other things worth considering here.

 

Personally, I wouldn't give up Anderson nor Semien for him, but I absolutely love both players. I'd give up any other minor leaguer in the system eligible to be traded for him at this point. I just don't think trading Anderson or Semien bodes well for the long-term health of the organization because it seems to be that those two both provide very good value long-term in multiple different ways.

The side work and warm ups really fall into the less stressful category. I don't really think they make much of a difference. a great deal of warming up and sitting down only to warm up again would do it though.

 

[Rowand44]

While all those other guys were in the minors, Jeff was working at Best Buy. Duh.

Did they make him cut his hair?

[Eminor3rd]

Did they make him cut his hair?

 

They tried, but he wasn't having it. So he quit and got a job in baseball.

[Rowand44]

They tried, but he wasn't having it. So he quit and got a job in baseball.

Ahh, this all makes sense to me.

[SCCWS]

I don't disagree with any of this, and frankly none of these would deter me from signing those players given the right circumstances, just that those "MLB pitches thrown" are misleading as hell. Just because a guy hasn't thrown a lot of pitches in the MLB because he came up late or started in the bullpen doesn't simply negate the effect the previous pitching experience has had on his arm. Frankly, some of those pitches were "saved" when he was throwing out of the bullpen, but those pitches don't include side work or warm up sessions nor does it include the ramped up intensity of those innings.

 

Samardzija seems like he has smooth mechanics and he was arguably better in the 2nd half than the 1st half last year (which has been a concern), but there are a lot of other things worth considering here.

 

Personally, I wouldn't give up Anderson nor Semien for him, but I absolutely love both players. I'd give up any other minor leaguer in the system eligible to be traded for him at this point. I just don't think trading Anderson or Semien bodes well for the long-term health of the organization because it seems to be that those two both provide very good value long-term in multiple different ways.

 

Semien has so far shown to be a a below average infielder in majors and an average one in minors. Now maybe he can be a 4th outfielder but unless he makes a major improvment with his defense, his value is not great.

 

[Feeky Magee]

Semien has so far shown to be a a below average infielder in majors and an average one in minors. Now maybe he can be a 4th outfielder but unless he makes a major improvment with his defense, his value is not great.

What exactly was average about wRC+s of 167 at AA and 142 at AAA? And his defence is fine. Not as good as Sanchez, but the difference in the bat more than makes up for that. I sincerely hope the plan is for Semien to start at second barring something remarkable.

[GGajewski18]

What exactly was average about wRC+s of 167 at AA and 142 at AAA? And his defence is fine. Not as good as Sanchez, but the difference in the bat more than makes up for that. I sincerely hope the plan is for Semien to start at second barring something remarkable.

 

I agree. I want Semien to be the starting 2B next year and use Sanchez as trade bait.

[Balta1701]

I agree. I want Semien to be the starting 2B next year and use Sanchez as trade bait.

I don't imagine that either of them have that much trade value. Sanchez's tools don't sell me on "Here, spend a lot to trade for me" and Semien needs to now establish that he's a full time big leaguer to show that he's a high value asset, including being better on defense.

[bmags]

I'm really sick of the amount of "fine defensively" players who have not established themselves offensively we continue to peg onto our team. Our defense, collectively, is terrible. If we go into next year with an infield of Gillaspie - Semien - Johnson - Abreu I would cry watching our pitching squandered.

 

None of our infield prospects have forced their way on our team. They have been pretty good in AAA, and bad on the big league team. Until they prove otherwise I'm not going to hold a spot for Semien on this infield.

[LDF]

Given the difference in what it would take to acquire each pitcher, why not Jon Niese over Jeff S? Yes, Jeff has a higher ceiling, but Niese is two years younger and under team control for 2-4 more years.

 

Please don't say it's because he's a lefty. The best starters are the best starters. There is no such thing as too many lefties.

 

some writer was saying that he has a shoulder problem. either way, the sox will do

there due diligence. i will be very cautious of him.

[LDF]

 

i am on lunch at work, while i was reading about the sox wanting Shark. this

reminds me of when the sox had a chance of getting this young unproven pitcher

from Sea. it came down to a final yes from JR. JR said no. now my cuz and friends

were all for the trade. the pitchers Sea wanted where 4 and were in the minors. One

was Richard Dotson.

 

that pitcher was Randy Johnson. now i am not saying that Shark is going to be the

next Randy Johnson. but the cost is still too much for this trade. Anderson, no

freaking way.

[Feeky Magee]

I'm really sick of the amount of "fine defensively" players who have not established themselves offensively we continue to peg onto our team. Our defense, collectively, is terrible. If we go into next year with an infield of Gillaspie - Semien - Johnson - Abreu I would cry watching our pitching squandered.

 

None of our infield prospects have forced their way on our team. They have been pretty good in AAA, and bad on the big league team. Until they prove otherwise I'm not going to hold a spot for Semien on this infield.

Who is your starting second baseman as of now?

[Whisox05]

I like how alot of people are hardly mentioning johnson at second base. Keep putting semien and sanchez a head of him. Pretty sure sox have johnson going before the other two. If johnson can hit for average and gets on base then it's going to be fun watching that speed on the bases. I'm really hoping he works his way to the leadoff spot and eaton batting second is going to be alot of fun to watch.

[LDF]

I like how alot of people are hardly mentioning johnson at second base. Keep putting semien and sanchez a head of him. Pretty sure sox have johnson going before the other two. If johnson can hit for average and gets on base then it's going to be fun watching that speed on the bases. I'm really hoping he works his way to the leadoff spot and eaton batting second is going to be alot of fun to watch.

i am not, don't get me wrong, i like johnson. he needs at least 1/2 season more in the

minors. however, come spring things may be different.

 

Semien is my starting 2b for now.

[Rowand44]

I like Marcus better than Micah all together but the Sox clearly are in love with Johnson so it will be interesting to see how this 2b battle goes in the spring(assuming those 3 are still around).

[Dick Allen]

i am on lunch at work, while i was reading about the sox wanting Shark. this

reminds me of when the sox had a chance of getting this young unproven pitcher

from Sea. it came down to a final yes from JR. JR said no. now my cuz and friends

were all for the trade. the pitchers Sea wanted where 4 and were in the minors. One

was Richard Dotson.

 

that pitcher was Randy Johnson. now i am not saying that Shark is going to be the

next Randy Johnson. but the cost is still too much for this trade. Anderson, no

freaking way.

I do know I once read the Sox were so close to a deal to get Randy Johnson, and this was before he broke out as a good pitcher, they actually had a uniform hanging for him in their clubhouse. Johnson is a weird pitcher. Didn't become decent until he was 26. Didn't become dominant until he was 29, and was awesome pretty much through his entire 30s.

[LDF]

I do know I once read the Sox were so close to a deal to get Randy Johnson, and this was before he broke out as a good pitcher, they actually had a uniform hanging for him in their clubhouse. Johnson is a weird pitcher. Didn't become decent until he was 26. Didn't become dominant until he was 29, and was awesome pretty much through his entire 30s.

 

i know the story was when JR met with him, Randy was kind of a free spirit and that

do for JR. again, i do not have the time to really express myself on free spirit. fill

in the missing pieces.

[cabiness42]

I like how alot of people are hardly mentioning johnson at second base. Keep putting semien and sanchez a head of him. Pretty sure sox have johnson going before the other two. If johnson can hit for average and gets on base then it's going to be fun watching that speed on the bases. I'm really hoping he works his way to the leadoff spot and eaton batting second is going to be alot of fun to watch.

 

Every time somebody mentions Johnson I always think, "You can't steal first base*" I hope I'm wrong but I don't see him being able to get on base enough in the majors to be a full-time starter.

 

 

 

* - Unless you are AJ Pierzynski in Game 2 of the ALCS