Sox acquire Jeff Samardzija and Michael Ynoa

[Y2Jimmy0]

I agree here. If Anderson were traded for Shark and he didn't extend right away, we'd be waiting all season to see what he'd do. And if he goes to free agency, I don't think the Sox have a great chance to re-sign him.

 

If the Sox extend him right away to a decent contract, I could see it being a good deal.

 

 

It'd be an overpay though. The deal would still be Anderson for 1 year of Samardzija regardless of what he does when he gets here.

[Al Lopez's Ghost]

Probably but if you showcase each of these players correctly, you may be able to get him for less that you thought you could play.

 

For example, if you approach him promoting the speed and versatility of Leury and how he would fit Oakland's ethic. You then tell him about the promise of Erik Johnson and that he was a top 100 prospect that had a down year last year due to injury, then you mention the Charlotte total home run record holder in Jordan Danks and that as a sweetener you have the top pitcher in Brazil in Andre Rienzo.

 

If Toronto can trade for Josh Donaldson for Brett Lawrie and a couple of prospects. Why can't we deal for a year of the Shark for 4 AAAA players.

You forget that Oakland has seen Leury, Johnson, Danks and Rienzo play baseball.

[glangon]

You forget that Oakland has seen Leury, Johnson, Danks and Rienzo play baseball.

 

True but you use that as your starting offer and then see what Billy Beane wants for him, then you up your offer slightly with some conversation,

 

That offer could then turn into Carlos Sanchez, Erik Johnson, Tank and Rienzo for Samardijia.

 

If we start too high we could end up paying the earth for a 1 year rental.

[Dick Allen]

He is going to cost something decent because you get him for a season under market price and if you don't re-sign him, you most likely will give him a QO get a comp pick in the draft.

 

If the White Sox truly aren't totally going for it now, just hoping this goes right and that goes right, which could happen, it doesn't make very much sense giving up one of their top 3 or 4 prospects and then something for a guy they can sign next offseason if they need him so badly.

 

If JR is willing to up the payroll to $125 million or so now, and adding pieces, then it may make sense.

[Al Lopez's Ghost]

Maybe this would work. Have a base package, say, Semien and a lesser prospect, plus future considerations. Have the future consideration be player x if shark extends, air player y if he doesn't.

[Al Lopez's Ghost]

Maybe this would work. Have a base package, say, Semien and a lesser prospect, plus future considerations. Have the future consideration be player x if shark extends, air player y if he doesn't.

[hogan873]

It'd be an overpay though. The deal would still be Anderson for 1 year of Samardzija regardless of what he does when he gets here.

I wouldn't want the deal to happen unless Samardzija extended right away for a decent contract. Otherwise, it's a year of Samardzija and a crap shoot.

[Al Lopez's Ghost]

Oops

[AlSoxfan]

True but you use that as your starting offer and then see what Billy Beane wants for him, then you up your offer slightly with some conversation,

 

That offer could then turn into Carlos Sanchez, Erik Johnson, Tank and Rienzo for Samardijia.

 

If we start too high we could end up paying the earth for a 1 year rental.

Beane's no dummy...I think he'd just quit taking your calls.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I wouldn't want the deal to happen unless Samardzija extended right away for a decent contract. Otherwise, it's a year of Samardzija and a crap shoot.

 

 

I would trade for 1 year of Samardzija and take my chances re-signing him. I would not trade a premium price for 1 year of Samardzija though.

[lasttriptotulsa]

I do know the Top 10 second basemen all finished higher than .975. So a minor leaguer fielding at .950 has a long way to go.

 

Without context, fielding percentage means next to nothing. Let's compare Derek Jeter and Jose Valentin just for fun. As most probably remember, Jose Valentin made a lot of errors but had great range.

 

Let's use 2004 as an example. This was the first year that Derek Jeter won the Gold Glove.

 

Jeter made just 13 errors (good for a .981 fielding percentage), his range factor per 9 was 4.46. If he were to play all 1458 innings that year he would have had 723 chances and his .981 fielding percentage would mean he was successful on 709 of them.

 

Valentin made 20 errors (good for a .965 fielding percentage), his range factor per 9 was 4.91. If he were to play all 1458 innings that year he would have had 795 chances and his .965 fielding percentage would mean he was successful on 768 of them.

 

So despite the fact that Jeter had a higher fielding percentage, Valentin actually would make an additional 59 plays over the course of the year that Jeter's limited range would not allow him to even field. Yet because people still like to just look at archaic stats like fielding percentage, Jeter wins the Gold Glove.

[Dick Allen]

Without context, fielding percentage means next to nothing. Let's compare Derek Jeter and Jose Valentin just for fun. As most probably remember, Jose Valentin made a lot of errors but had great range.

 

Let's use 2004 as an example. This was the first year that Derek Jeter won the Gold Glove.

 

Jeter made just 13 errors (good for a .981 fielding percentage), his range factor per 9 was 4.46. If he were to play all 1458 innings that year he would have had 723 chances and his .981 fielding percentage would mean he was successful on 709 of them.

 

Valentin made 20 errors (good for a .965 fielding percentage), his range factor per 9 was 4.91. If he were to play all 1458 innings that year he would have had 795 chances and his .965 fielding percentage would mean he was successful on 768 of them.

 

So despite the fact that Jeter had a higher fielding percentage, Valentin actually would make an additional 59 plays over the course of the year that Jeter's limited range would not allow him to even field. Yet because people still like to just look at archaic stats like fielding percentage, Jeter wins the Gold Glove.

It does, but the fact remains, Semien was a bad defender in 2014. People are intriqued with his offense so they don't want to admit that, thinking whatever he screwed up is a simple fix. Players they don't like that make the same mistakes are awful fielders.

 

I will give him the benefit of the doubt because he is young and improving defensively happens all the time. But to think he is anything but bad now is ridiculous.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Russell is one of the top 5 prospects in baseball. He was a top 10 prospect in the game when he was traded last year. That was a really bad trade last year.

Where is Anderson in the top 100 ? I think he'll have a huge year in AA Birmingham and be near top 10 status soon after.

 

Lillian did you say he had a weak arm ? The Kiley McDaniel in depth review of the top Sox prospects says he has a plus arm and a shockling low amount of problems for a guy his age.

New top 100 lists come out in February so I guess we'll see how he ranks then.

Edited December 2, 2014 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[AlSoxfan]

Without context, fielding percentage means next to nothing. Let's compare Derek Jeter and Jose Valentin just for fun. As most probably remember, Jose Valentin made a lot of errors but had great range.

 

Let's use 2004 as an example. This was the first year that Derek Jeter won the Gold Glove.

 

Jeter made just 13 errors (good for a .981 fielding percentage), his range factor per 9 was 4.46. If he were to play all 1458 innings that year he would have had 723 chances and his .981 fielding percentage would mean he was successful on 709 of them.

 

Valentin made 20 errors (good for a .965 fielding percentage), his range factor per 9 was 4.91. If he were to play all 1458 innings that year he would have had 795 chances and his .965 fielding percentage would mean he was successful on 768 of them.

 

So despite the fact that Jeter had a higher fielding percentage, Valentin actually would make an additional 59 plays over the course of the year that Jeter's limited range would not allow him to even field. Yet because people still like to just look at archaic stats like fielding percentage, Jeter wins the Gold Glove.

that was an interesting comparison, thanks. I remember hearing Hawk say one time that Ripken was the luckiest ss in the history of baseball, every ball was hit right at him. I didn't know whether to laugh or scream at him.

[Dick Allen]

that was an interesting comparison, thanks. I remember hearing Hawk say one time that Ripken was the luckiest ss in the history of baseball, every ball was hit right at him. I didn't know whether to laugh or scream at him.

He meant it as a compliment. Ripken didn't have much range but like the shifts of today, a nice thought process can make up for it.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Where is Anderson in the top 100 ? I think he'll have a huge year in AA Birmingham and be near top 10 status soon after.

 

Lillian did you say he had a weak arm ? The Kiley McDaniel in depth review of the top Sox prospects says he has a plus arm and a shockling low amount of problems for a guy his age.

New top 100 lists come out in February so I guess we'll see how he ranks then.

 

I think Anderson will be between 30-35 on most lists.

 

[southsider2k5]

That was a good suggestion, and I did indeed just look at his Minor League fielding stats. He never performed anywhere near as poorly as Anderson did.

Moreover, have you ever seen a scouting report that suggests Anderson even has the tools to become an elite SS?

 

Every scouting report states that Anderson has the tools. The question is with as raw as he is, does he have the time to get there. His ceiling isn't the question, as the kid is a veritable tool shed.

[Lillian]

Clarification:

1) I did not, and am not, advocating a trade of Anderson for Samardjiza. I was addressing the "untouchable" label some attach to him.

2) There is much more substance to Anderson's defensive short comings than his 31 errors, in just 302 chances.

3) Most scouting reports that I have read indicate that he is a "fringy" defensive SS, with an average arm.

 

Here are some quotes from said scouting reports:

 

From Scouting Book.com: "A good but not standout shortstop, he shows plus range but only a so-so arm, which suggests a move to second base might be coming in the future".

 

From Adam Wells, Bleacher Report:

Defense: 45/55

"Fringy range with below-average footwork and instincts; ability to use speed makes up for deficiencies right now; needs to position himself better to get better reads off the bat; average arm

strength makes it difficult to throw from the hole; quicker release and repetitions could make him average or better in the big leagues."

 

Arm: 50/50

"Average arm strength; transfer from glove and release are solid, but overall velocity leaves plenty to be desired; chance lack of arm necessitates move to second base or center field, with the

latter maximizing his overall skill set; with better positioning, could stay at short in pro ball."

 

Baseball America: "Winston-Salem’s Tim Anderson (White Sox) lacks efficiency in the field, with an .897 fielding percentage and Carolina League-leading total of 31 errors in just 66 games,

but he also used electric athleticism and range to record +12 assists in that time. Plus, he continued to rack up assists in 10 games Double-A Birmingham (3.20 A/G)"

 

MLB.com: "Leading up to the 2013 Draft, some scouts projected Anderson more as a center fielder than a shortstop, but the White Sox have no plans to move him off his current position.

Anderson has the actions, range and arm to play short, and he has the work ethic to make the necessary refinements".

This scouting report is more favorable, regarding his defense, but even then, it suggests that he will need to "make refinements". The emphasis is on the tools, not the skills.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Lillian

[Y2Jimmy0]

Clarification:

1) I did not, and am not, advocating a trade of Anderson for Samardjiza. I was addressing the "untouchable" label some attach to him.

2) There is much more substance to Anderson's defensive short comings than his 31 errors, in just 302 chances.

3) Most scouting reports that I have read indicate that he is a "fringy" defensive SS, with an average arm.

 

Here are some quotes from said scouting reports:

 

From Scouting Book.com: "A good but not standout shortstop, he shows plus range but only a so-so arm, which suggests a move to second base might be coming in the future".

 

From Adam Wells, Bleacher Report:

Defense: 45/55

"Fringy range with below-average footwork and instincts; ability to use speed makes up for deficiencies right now; needs to position himself better to get better reads off the bat; average arm

strength makes it difficult to throw from the hole; quicker release and repetitions could make him average or better in the big leagues."

 

Arm: 50/50

"Average arm strength; transfer from glove and release are solid, but overall velocity leaves plenty to be desired; chance lack of arm necessitates move to second base or center field, with the

latter maximizing his overall skill set; with better positioning, could stay at short in pro ball."

 

Baseball America: "Winston-Salem’s Tim Anderson (White Sox) lacks efficiency in the field, with an .897 fielding percentage and Carolina League-leading total of 31 errors in just 66 games,

but he also used electric athleticism and range to record +12 assists in that time. Plus, he continued to rack up assists in 10 games Double-A Birmingham (3.20 A/G)"

 

MLB.com: "Leading up to the 2013 Draft, some scouts projected Anderson more as a center fielder than a shortstop, but the White Sox have no plans to move him off his current position.

Anderson has the actions, range and arm to play short, and he has the work ethic to make the necessary refinements".

This scouting report is more favorable, regarding his defense, but even then, it suggests that he will need to "make refinements". The emphasis is on the tools, not the skills.

 

Of course he needs to make refinements. He was primarily a basketball player coming up. Hasn't played much baseball. Good lord.

 

[Dick Allen]

Clarification:

1) I did not, and am not, advocating a trade of Anderson for Samardjiza. I was addressing the "untouchable" label some attach to him.

2) There is much more substance to Anderson's defensive short comings than his 31 errors, in just 302 chances.

3) Most scouting reports that I have read indicate that he is a "fringy" defensive SS, with an average arm.

 

Here are some quotes from said scouting reports:

 

From Scouting Book.com: "A good but not standout shortstop, he shows plus range but only a so-so arm, which suggests a move to second base might be coming in the future".

 

From Adam Wells, Bleacher Report:

Defense: 45/55

"Fringy range with below-average footwork and instincts; ability to use speed makes up for deficiencies right now; needs to position himself better to get better reads off the bat; average arm

strength makes it difficult to throw from the hole; quicker release and repetitions could make him average or better in the big leagues."

 

Arm: 50/50

"Average arm strength; transfer from glove and release are solid, but overall velocity leaves plenty to be desired; chance lack of arm necessitates move to second base or center field, with the

latter maximizing his overall skill set; with better positioning, could stay at short in pro ball."

 

Baseball America: "Winston-Salem’s Tim Anderson (White Sox) lacks efficiency in the field, with an .897 fielding percentage and Carolina League-leading total of 31 errors in just 66 games,

but he also used electric athleticism and range to record +12 assists in that time. Plus, he continued to rack up assists in 10 games Double-A Birmingham (3.20 A/G)"

 

MLB.com: "Leading up to the 2013 Draft, some scouts projected Anderson more as a center fielder than a shortstop, but the White Sox have no plans to move him off his current position.

Anderson has the actions, range and arm to play short, and he has the work ethic to make the necessary refinements".

This scouting report is more favorable, regarding his defense, but even then, it suggests that he will need to "make refinements". The emphasis is on the tools, not the skills.

The other thing is, offensively he makes Dayan Viciedo look as selective as Frank Thomas, but he is very raw. He could be a star. He could be a bust, but he definitely appears to be headed in the right direction, and his talent is off the charts.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Clarification:

1) I did not, and am not, advocating a trade of Anderson for Samardjiza. I was addressing the "untouchable" label some attach to him.

2) There is much more substance to Anderson's defensive short comings than his 31 errors, in just 302 chances.

3) Most scouting reports that I have read indicate that he is a "fringy" defensive SS, with an average arm.

 

Here are some quotes from said scouting reports:

 

From Scouting Book.com: "A good but not standout shortstop, he shows plus range but only a so-so arm, which suggests a move to second base might be coming in the future".

 

From Adam Wells, Bleacher Report:

Defense: 45/55

"Fringy range with below-average footwork and instincts; ability to use speed makes up for deficiencies right now; needs to position himself better to get better reads off the bat; average arm

strength makes it difficult to throw from the hole; quicker release and repetitions could make him average or better in the big leagues."

 

Arm: 50/50

"Average arm strength; transfer from glove and release are solid, but overall velocity leaves plenty to be desired; chance lack of arm necessitates move to second base or center field, with the

latter maximizing his overall skill set; with better positioning, could stay at short in pro ball."

 

Baseball America: "Winston-Salem’s Tim Anderson (White Sox) lacks efficiency in the field, with an .897 fielding percentage and Carolina League-leading total of 31 errors in just 66 games,

but he also used electric athleticism and range to record +12 assists in that time. Plus, he continued to rack up assists in 10 games Double-A Birmingham (3.20 A/G)"

 

MLB.com: "Leading up to the 2013 Draft, some scouts projected Anderson more as a center fielder than a shortstop, but the White Sox have no plans to move him off his current position.

Anderson has the actions, range and arm to play short, and he has the work ethic to make the necessary refinements".

This scouting report is more favorable, regarding his defense, but even then, it suggests that he will need to "make refinements". The emphasis is on the tools, not the skills.

 

Who said that he was untouchable?

 

[Harry Chappas]

I wonder if Avi Garcia would come up in talks.

 

This trade is a tough one as the farm finally has some traction and this move could really knock it down but also could push it over the top.

 

Personally I offer Montas and Semien/Johnson and leave it there.

 

Levine was on the SCORE last night and stated the Samardzija will be a life long Chicagoan as a resident but that does not mean much.

 

Personally I do not get why Boston would not just go after Lester.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[southsider2k5]

I do know the Top 10 second basemen all finished higher than .975. So a minor leaguer fielding at .950 has a long way to go.

 

Since Omar was mentioned earlier, Vizquel sported a .955 fielding percentage as a minor league SS.

 

Ozzie Smith was at .943 his only year in the minors.

 

Ozzie Guillen was at .943 during his minor league career, including .931 with 38 errors in 327 chances during his season at AA.

 

Cal Ripken was at .925 as a minor league SS, including a .933 effort at AA, making 28 errors in 268 chances.

 

And trust me, there are plenty more.

[fathom]

Anderson dramatically cut down on his errors in the AFL. I wonder if it had something to do with the quality of the first baseman he was throwing to? I know I mentioned this during the year, but it seems like Barnum might be a butcher at first base.

[witesoxfan]

Anderson dramatically cut down on his errors in the AFL. I wonder if it had something to do with the quality of the first baseman he was throwing to? I know I mentioned this during the year, but it seems like Barnum might be a butcher at first base.

 

Never thought about that. I was hoping to see if they split the errors in the minors between throwing and fielding, but in my quick look, I couldn't find it. He was perfect in 34 innings for the AZL Sox and while he did make 3 in 10 games for the Barons, that was 3 errors in 52 total chances, which isn't a terrible number at the MLB level and is something that can be improved upon.