Sox acquire Jeff Samardzija and Michael Ynoa

[witesoxfan]

I think I'm mostly upset in this in that the Sox finally get a guy to the majors who looks like he could be a very nice player and the first thing they do is trade him for a starting pitcher who is about to get expensive as hell.

 

Question WAR all you want to, but Brian Dozier hit .242/.345/.416, played mediocre defense, and stole 20 bases at a 75% clip and he was just worth 4.6 WAR this past season. That means, if nothing else, that he was a very good player for the Minnesota Twins. If Marcus Semien hit .230/.310/.390, stole 15 bases, hit 15 homers, and played mediocre defense, he'd probably be worth 1.5-2 WAR and that could easily improve to the point where he was worth 3+ WAR or more.

 

I think we are underrating depth quite a bit, and Semien provides a ton of that for the current version of the Sox. Losing him would be very significant.

[RockRaines]

I don't know if 3B is easy to fill. 2B just has such a low bar.

I was referring to 2B and utility IF. Those are literally the last two positions I fill on a squad.

[ptatc]

Then sign Brandon McCarthy. He's slightly inferior and doesn't anything other than money.

 

Those positions may be "easy" to fill but the Sox have struggled filling them for 5+ years now. Their backup plan for LF and RF right now is seemingly a guy who has a sub .300 OBP for his career and has never been regarded as good defensively. If Semien goes, their plan at 2B is a guy whose role on an MLB team should be that of a utility player or a player who has dealt with injuries seemingly every year of his career thus far. Hell, even their 3B is mediocre defensively and absolutely brutal against lefties. Are you telling me that you couldn't see their current options failing and burning the Sox because they have a lack of depth again?

 

At the very least, we know Semien is going to be average to slightly below average at the plate, and I think there's a strong chance he's way better than that. Trading a talented kid because the positions he plays are "easy to fill" is the reason the Sox haven't made the playoffs in 6 years and have only done so twice in the last 15 years.

He is more than slightly inferior, especially considering the health issues. JS has been in the 200 inning range every year as a starter. If you sign McCarthy you better have quality starters waiting.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

@philgrogers: Jeff Samardzija-Alexei Ramirez deal makes sense for both teams, provided A's have postseason aspirations.

 

@philgrogers: Not sure White Sox give up Tim Anderson in possible Samardzija rental but could piece SS together in 2015 to develop Anderson in AA/AAA.

[ptatc]

@philgrogers: Jeff Samardzija-Alexei Ramirez deal makes sense for both teams, provided A's have postseason aspirations.

 

@philgrogers: Not sure White Sox give up Tim Anderson in possible Samardzija rental but could piece SS together in 2015 to develop Anderson in AA/AAA.

I need to go home. Everything I've said agrees with Phil Rogers. I'm in a deep state of depression.

[witesoxfan]

He is more than slightly inferior, especially considering the health issues. JS has been in the 200 inning range every year as a starter. If you sign McCarthy you better have quality starters waiting.

 

Then sign Scherzer. I find it hard to believe that Samardzija wouldn't at least get 6/$130 on the open market, and frankly Scherzer isn't going to cost that much more and then you don't have to give up a player with a name for him.

 

I'll be done now. I just don't think Semien is the right guy for this franchise to give up.

[Dick Allen]

I need to go home. Everything I've said agrees with Phil Rogers. I'm in a deep state of depression.

The thing that scares me is the Sox are said to be in love with Micah Johnson at 2B. Get a new questionable defensive SS with him, and that up the middle defense, the one decent thing about the White Sox defensively, will become pretty bad. Do you blow off your defense 162 games for the 31 or 32 games Samardjia pitches?

 

They would really need to get a SS who was a plus defensively.

[southsider2k5]

Then sign Scherzer. I find it hard to believe that Samardzija wouldn't at least get 6/$130 on the open market, and frankly Scherzer isn't going to cost that much more and then you don't have to give up a player with a name for him.

 

I'll be done now. I just don't think Semien is the right guy for this franchise to give up.

 

I concur.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I think I'm mostly upset in this in that the Sox finally get a guy to the majors who looks like he could be a very nice player and the first thing they do is trade him for a starting pitcher who is about to get expensive as hell.

 

Question WAR all you want to, but Brian Dozier hit .242/.345/.416, played mediocre defense, and stole 20 bases at a 75% clip and he was just worth 4.6 WAR this past season. That means, if nothing else, that he was a very good player for the Minnesota Twins. If Marcus Semien hit .230/.310/.390, stole 15 bases, hit 15 homers, and played mediocre defense, he'd probably be worth 1.5-2 WAR and that could easily improve to the point where he was worth 3+ WAR or more.

 

I think we are underrating depth quite a bit, and Semien provides a ton of that for the current version of the Sox. Losing him would be very significant.

I have been advocating increasing the talent level also. Having 2 or 3 1.5-2.0 WAR utility players adds great value to a team knowing that in case of injury you have quality back ups. Every trade does not have to be a blockbuster. McCarthy would be just fine ,if we could get him, while we see how Rodon , Bassit, etc. develop . The Sox may want to compete this year but it shouldn't be at the expense of finding out what our very inexpensive prospects will become.

Edited December 8, 2014 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[ptatc]

Then sign Scherzer. I find it hard to believe that Samardzija wouldn't at least get 6/$130 on the open market, and frankly Scherzer isn't going to cost that much more and then you don't have to give up a player with a name for him.

 

I'll be done now. I just don't think Semien is the right guy for this franchise to give up.

I think when it's all said and done. JS will not get the same deal that Scherzer will. If it was even, I would agree but I don't think it will be.

 

Some of it depends on who is traded of course. I'm fine with Rameirez going. I think he is one of the better SS around but for a quality starting pitcher, I would do it everytime.

[ptatc]

The thing that scares me is the Sox are said to be in love with Micah Johnson at 2B. Get a new questionable defensive SS with him, and that up the middle defense, the one decent thing about the White Sox defensively, will become pretty bad. Do you blow off your defense 162 games for the 31 or 32 games Samardjia pitches?

 

They would really need to get a SS who was a plus defensively.

I agree. If the trade goes down, they need to look for that really good defensive SS. But with what they gain instarting pitching, I think it's worth it.

[witesoxfan]

I think when it's all said and done. JS will not get the same deal that Scherzer will. If it was even, I would agree but I don't think it will be.

 

Some of it depends on who is traded of course. I'm fine with Rameirez going. I think he is one of the better SS around but for a quality starting pitcher, I would do it everytime.

 

The more I think about it, the more I'd be perfectly content trading Ramirez for Samardzija, but that doesn't seem like the kind of move the Sox would make.

 

Frankly, I want this situation to be resolved so I can move on.

[Harry Chappas]

If Drew is looking for a short term deal Oakland would be a good fit for him to try and build up his resume again.

[ptatc]

I have been advocating increasing the talent level also. Having 2 or 3 1.5-2.0 WAR utility players adds great value to a team knowing that in case of injury you have quality back ups. Every trade does not have to be a blockbuster. McCarthy would be just fine ,if we could get him, while we see how Rodon , Bassit, etc. develop . The Sox may want to compete this year but it shouldn't be at the expense of finding out what our very inexpensive prospects will become.

No, but if you have the opportunity to acquire a really good dependable starting pitcher, he is worth more than all of those utility players. He will not only produce more but also save the team from over using the lower end of the bullpen. McCarthy, even if healthy will tax the bullpen. You don't give up the farm for JS but you do what you can to acquire him.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

The more I think about it, the more I'd be perfectly content trading Ramirez for Samardzija, but that doesn't seem like the kind of move the Sox would make.

 

Frankly, I want this situation to be resolved so I can move on.

Sounds like you don't want a divorce from Marcus.

[witesoxfan]

Sounds like you don't want a divorce from Marcus.

 

Well I don't

 

But really, I just want it resolved so we can figure out how the A's take way too much from the White Sox again while they seemingly give away guys like Donaldson and Moss to the opposition for jacksquat.

[cabiness42]

@philgrogers: Jeff Samardzija-Alexei Ramirez deal makes sense for both teams, provided A's have postseason aspirations.

 

@philgrogers: Not sure White Sox give up Tim Anderson in possible Samardzija rental but could piece SS together in 2015 to develop Anderson in AA/AAA.

 

I don't think the deal makes sense for both teams. Doesn't make sense for the Sox since Shark is only signed for one year and a replacement for Alexei is at least a year away.

 

Not sure how much it makes sense for Oakland either since they seem to be acquiring guys with more than 2 years of team control right now.

[BigHurt3515]

It doesn't seem like Oakland is looking to win now with trading their best players away so I don't think they would be wanting Ramirez back

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

No, but if you have the opportunity to acquire a really good dependable starting pitcher, he is worth more than all of those utility players. He will not only produce more but also save the team from over using the lower end of the bullpen. McCarthy, even if healthy will tax the bullpen. You don't give up the farm for JS but you do what you can to acquire him.

I'm all for a guy like Shark but not for 1 year. Giving up 2 decent prospects is like 10 yrs or more of control for 1 yr. and JS would have to be extremely good to outproduce productive bench players who might even eventually be starters that you control for a much longer period of time and McCarthy.

[harfman77]

I was referring to 2B and utility IF. Those are literally the last two positions I fill on a squad.

 

Agree, Marcus seems like a guy without a role in the long term. The Sox seem to really like Micah as the guy at 2B and Anderson at SS, so that would relegate Semien to 3B where Gillaspie has put up acceptable production.

 

Keeping a guy as a backup is not more valuable than adding a legitimate 2-3 starter to your rotation. If Shark leaves after next season you get a draft pick to select a prospect that probably has more long term value to the Sox than Semien does. If not you have a very formidable top three all signed through a period of time when the team should be very competitive.

[dpd9189]

Hahn is a smart guy and I think if he does acquire Samardjiza he does with two scenarios in mind. First is hope that the Sox make a run this year and Samardjiza is a big part of that. If the Sox can't re-sign him after the year then they'll gladly take the draft pick. However if the Sox aren't doing well this year then the plan may be to do what the Cubs did last year and flip him for some a high end prospect.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Well I don't

 

But really, I just want it resolved so we can figure out how the A's take way too much from the White Sox again while they seemingly give away guys like Donaldson and Moss to the opposition for jacksquat.

That was exactly the position I took in the Moss thread.

[harfman77]

It doesn't seem like Oakland is looking to win now with trading their best players away so I don't think they would be wanting Ramirez back

 

They are trying to re-tool with less expensive guys with more years of control. They are taking a big hit in free agency this year and have a lot of holes to fill and a bit of SP depth. Beane went all in this summer and now needs to retool his roster after losing his entire IF and needs to upgrade his OF.

[southsider2k5]

I think when it's all said and done. JS will not get the same deal that Scherzer will. If it was even, I would agree but I don't think it will be.

 

Some of it depends on who is traded of course. I'm fine with Rameirez going. I think he is one of the better SS around but for a quality starting pitcher, I would do it everytime.

 

Max is probably going to get $50ish million more than 6/$130

[southsider2k5]

The more I think about it, the more I'd be perfectly content trading Ramirez for Samardzija, but that doesn't seem like the kind of move the Sox would make.

 

Frankly, I want this situation to be resolved so I can move on.

 

With the prospects we have, I think this makes us a better team.