Michael Saunders

[GreenSox]

How about this guy?

Well, can you give me a name?

 

The idea below of a roving DH with 4 outfielders. That's fine, although I think a DH may be easier to find than a real 4th outfielder that can hit. But if the Sox can find that (essentially 2 outfielders) taht's great. I'd also like an upgrade at 3B - been wondering if Gillaspie can play outfield. He appears reasonably athletic.

Might use Viciedo as DH, per the Gonzales article. They don't want to sell low on him, understandably. Although Gonzales is nutty when he says that the Sox would use Ramirez to get Parnell from the Mets.

Edited November 8, 2014 by GreenSox

[2nd_city_saint787]

That picture is of David Peralta, and is actually a fairly decent name to bring up.

 

DBacks still have a bit of a log jam in the OF with Peralta, Inciarte, Ross, Trumbo, and Pollock

 

And while we're talking DBacks outfielders, former DBack, current Brewer, and Chillihead favorite Gerrado Parra could make some sense as well. Brewers OF has Parra (who's arb elgible), Braun, Khris Davis, and Carlos Gomez.

Edited November 8, 2014 by scs787

[SoxAce]

Not a fan of his at all. I remember the org banking the same thing as far as power numbers on Teahen when he got here. He's a better fielder, but older. He's an upgrade, but not one I'd jump the gun to get rid of Viciedo for and this is comming from someone who probably hates Viciedo the second most next to Eminor3rd.

[Lillian]

Don't tell the Mariners, sshh, but Viciedo derives his power from a violent, very hard swing. It may inhibit his ability to ever become a decent hitter. Saunders probably has a better chance to become a decent hitter, while displaying some power. Unlike Viciedo, it doesn't appear that he is trying to kill the ball.

 

That certainly is a nice, fluid swing. It's a little long, which is accentuated by his height, but it is pretty.

 

[caulfield12]

Don't tell the Mariners, sshh, but Viciedo derives his power from a violent, very hard swing. It may inhibit his ability to ever become a decent hitter. Saunders probably has a better chance to become a decent hitter, while displaying some power. Unlike Viciedo, it doesn't appear that he is trying to kill the ball.

 

That certainly is a nice, fluid swing. It's a little long, which is accentuated by his height, but it is pretty.

 

Lol.

 

See similar comments about Ryan Sweeney.

 

Nearly all lefties look beautiful mechanically.

[BlackSox13]

Is it possible Canseco has tried to teach Tank the helicopter swing?

[Vance Law]

First, I have no objection to flipping Viciedo for him. do I think that Viciedo has more upside. Yes, but he's yet to grab it.

through c. 1700 at bats, Saunders has a career OPS of .685.

Viciedo, with a similar number of at bats, is .722.

Saunders is off of a career year (although with 1/2 season of at bats and some significant split differentials) so he may be on the upswing.

 

I have no suggestion. I don't want rents, I don't want decliners, and I don't want to trade real assets for guys like Saunders who is okay but that's it. Switch him with Viciedo or something? Fine.

Have to wait for a good FA class (terrible in the outfield this year) and for the farm to develop depth.

Maybe Hahn can find an undervalued player like Eaton was in CF.

 

First off, comparing guys who play in such drastically different home ballparks using OPS is less than ideal. Their career OPS+ are 96 for Viciedo, 94 for Saunders. But more importantly, Suanders' career numbers are dragged down by his age 22, 23, 24 seasons. His last 3 seasons wRC+ are 108, 100, and 126. Viciedo's last 3 are 98, 96, 88.

 

 

I'll reiterate again because so many posters continue to have some rigid old notions about what a typical corner outfielder "needs to provide" that don't have a basis in the current state of MLB offense. There were 21 outfielders in MLB who hit 20 home runs last year. 16 of those were corner outfielders. So about half of the baseball teams have even 1 corner outfielder who hit 20 home runs last year. Of those, some are such a liability defensively that you'd ideally have them at DH or 1B or not on the team. Viciedo leads that list which probably includes Matt Kemp, George Springer, Oswaldo Arcia, maybe Khris Davis.

 

There are less than 20 players in all of MLB who hit 20 home runs last year who should be playing in the outfield. There are 30 baseball teams.

[caulfield12]

First off, comparing guys who play in such drastically different home ballparks using OPS is less than ideal. Their career OPS+ are 96 for Viciedo, 94 for Saunders. But more importantly, Suanders' career numbers are dragged down by his age 22, 23, 24 seasons. His last 3 seasons wRC+ are 108, 100, and 126. Viciedo's last 3 are 98, 96, 88.

 

 

I'll reiterate again because so many posters continue to have some rigid old notions about what a typical corner outfielder "needs to provide" that don't have a basis in the current state of MLB offense. There were 21 outfielders in MLB who hit 20 home runs last year. 16 of those were corner outfielders. So about half of the baseball teams have even 1 corner outfielder who hit 20 home runs last year. Of those, some are such a liability defensively that you'd ideally have them at DH or 1B or not on the team. Viciedo leads that list which probably includes Matt Kemp, George Springer, Oswaldo Arcia, maybe Khris Davis.

 

There are less than 20 players in all of MLB who hit 20 home runs last year who should be playing in the outfield. There are 30 baseball teams.

 

Yes but you also have to take uscf into consideration, too.

 

Those players who are consistently going to be in the 675-725 ops range need to bring something else to the table like gold glove defense or game-disrupting speed.

 

Saunders hasn't proven he can stay healthy or put those wRC numbers up playing 150+ games a season. He's probably fine in a platoon but he's unlikely to be an everyday solution.

 

Let's look at it this way...safeco is a park where defense is even more important than uscf. Why wouldn't the m's want to keep him? Because ackley is preferable? The m's had trouble getting offense from cf all last season...and Corey hart Morrison and morales all underperformed. Why trade him? Why not just get victor Martinez and play Rasmus in cf?

 

What would cause him to transform into some type of offensive force in Chicago?

 

 

 

[Eminor3rd]

First off, comparing guys who play in such drastically different home ballparks using OPS is less than ideal. Their career OPS+ are 96 for Viciedo, 94 for Saunders. But more importantly, Suanders' career numbers are dragged down by his age 22, 23, 24 seasons. His last 3 seasons wRC+ are 108, 100, and 126. Viciedo's last 3 are 98, 96, 88.

 

 

I'll reiterate again because so many posters continue to have some rigid old notions about what a typical corner outfielder "needs to provide" that don't have a basis in the current state of MLB offense. There were 21 outfielders in MLB who hit 20 home runs last year. 16 of those were corner outfielders. So about half of the baseball teams have even 1 corner outfielder who hit 20 home runs last year. Of those, some are such a liability defensively that you'd ideally have them at DH or 1B or not on the team. Viciedo leads that list which probably includes Matt Kemp, George Springer, Oswaldo Arcia, maybe Khris Davis.

 

There are less than 20 players in all of MLB who hit 20 home runs last year who should be playing in the outfield. There are 30 baseball teams.

 

Excellent post. Frame of reference is important.

[caulfield12]

And war for Saunders?

[BlackSox13]

Excellent post. Frame of reference is important.

Most certainly agree!

 

Very well said Vance!!!

[Whisox05]

Ran across this. I would be up for swapping viciedo and saunders

http://southsideshowdown.com/2014/11/09/wh...chael-saunders/

[caulfield12]

The problem is how much in addition to Viciedo that the White Sox would have to give up...if it's anything inside the Top 6-7 minor leaguers, forget it.

 

I'm not even sure I would be willing to give up Bassit and Viciedo unless Maurer came back, an arm with at least bullpen upside.

 

Bassit could end up having a lot of value to the White Sox in 2015 in a number of different roles.

 

 

 

 

http://seattle.cbslocal.com/2014/10/08/chu...-with-saunders/

Lots of insights in this article...seems the Mariners would be better off moving him, with the situation being what it is.

 

As much I love/d Viciedo, it might be the right time for a parting of the ways...and I'm torn about trading Dayan versus using some of our other minor leaguers.

 

 

http://blogs.seattletimes.com/mariners/201...ship-gone-awry/

 

 

In the end, Eaton and Saunders are both injury concerns....and Avisail's coming off his own season of rehab, so it's not unreasonable to think you need FOUR really capable outfielders (and DH candidates).

 

The question is whether you give Dayan one more season or deal him for Saunders and then end up with Jordan Danks/Jared Mitchell or Sierra/Taylor types having to fill in if any of them go down to injury.

 

I'm okay with Saunders, Viciedo, Eaton and Garcia....and then adding one more bat, maybe Michael Morse, even though he's not LH. Saunders essentially replaces DeAza, with Viciedo/Morse getting the majority of DH time and Eaton/Garcia/Saunders sharing AB's there once every couple of weeks.

 

I think that would have been an expected White Sox offseason. Adding someone like Lind/Morse/Morales, Michael Saunders....then patching up the bullpen without going overboard for the top tier guys and finding a couple of additional veteran candidates for the starting rotation.

Edited November 10, 2014 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

On second thought, I'm going for Saunders with either Rasmus or Morse being added and Viciedo subtracted.

 

Rasmus and Saunders give you better defense...along with Eaton. Then you have Garcia.

 

With Morse and Saunders, Morse is going to be pretty much the primary/full-time DH instead.