Andrew Miller signs with Yankees

[Dick Allen]

 

Is Miller more Damaso Marte or Matt Thornton? . If he's Thornton, he's probably worth paying $8 million a year for 4 years. If he's Marte, you probably are regretting his contract in May.

 

Marte's first 2 seasons with the White Sox were better than Miller is right now.

[LittleHurt05]

I am just torn on Miller. There's no doubt that he has the stuff, but 2014 was the first time he really harnassed his control. If that wildness comes back, he's just another reliever. Given that someone always overpays for bullpen help, I feel like the price will end up way too high for me to want the Sox to sign him.

[LDF]

I am just torn on Miller. There's no doubt that he has the stuff, but 2014 was the first time he really harnassed his control. If that wildness comes back, he's just another reliever. Given that someone always overpays for bullpen help, I feel like the price will end up way too high for me to want the Sox to sign him.

 

I am with you on this, that is why I was very reluctant to come up with any answer

in the beginning.

 

I still think there are many other options avail.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I am just torn on Miller. There's no doubt that he has the stuff, but 2014 was the first time he really harnassed his control. If that wildness comes back, he's just another reliever. Given that someone always overpays for bullpen help, I feel like the price will end up way too high for me to want the Sox to sign him.

 

 

Yep. Give me Zach Duke and Luke Hochevar for the price of Andrew Miller.

[witesoxfan]

Hochevar will be around $5 million, maybe two years $8.5-9 million. Or one of those options for 2016 based on appearances, like $5 million, then $7 million in 2016 with 65-70+ appearances, something attainable.

 

I think any contract Hochevar signs is going to be incredibly laden with incentives.

[LDF]

I think any contract Hochevar signs is going to be incredibly laden with incentives.

 

which will even be better. "perform to your best and get a better contract".

[witesoxfan]

which will even be better. "perform to your best and get a better contract".

 

It can't really be perform to your best though. Incentives can be based on playing time and awards, so while the awards make that to some extent, it would primarily be based on games pitched. $4 million base and an additional $500k for 35, 45, 55, 60, 65, and 70 games pitches. Possible total of an additional $3 mill and, assuming he's healthy, $6 million is easily within reach.

[2nd_city_saint787]

This has kinda morphed into a bullpen thread so I'll bring this up here.

 

Last year Hahn brought in a bunch of guys that didn't give up the long ball. If that philosophy (If it was indeed a philosophy) continues then none of K-Rod, Romo, or Janssen make sense. All rank in the "top" 20 in HR/9, Gregerson comes in at 60th while pitching predominately in a pitchers ballpark.

 

Conversely, Andrew Miller ranked 47th in least HR/9....Zach Duke 51st

 

I'm fairly content with the RH relievers sans maybe a closer, but Burke Badenhop(4th) and Joba Chamberlin(44th) are the only other FAs in the top 50 of least HR/9.

Edited November 13, 2014 by scs787

[LDF]

It can't really be perform to your best though. Incentives can be based on playing time and awards, so while the awards make that to some extent, it would primarily be based on games pitched. $4 million base and an additional $500k for 35, 45, 55, 60, 65, and 70 games pitches. Possible total of an additional $3 mill and, assuming he's healthy, $6 million is easily within reach.

 

nice catch. still it is a nice option to have.

[LDF]

This has kinda morphed into a bullpen thread so I'll bring this up here.

 

Last year Hahn brought in a bunch of guys that didn't give up the long ball. If that philosophy (If it was indeed a philosophy) continues then none of K-Rod, Romo, or Janssen make sense. All rank in the "top" 20 in HR/9, Gregerson comes in at 60th while pitching predominately in a pitchers ballpark.

 

Conversely, Andrew Miller ranked 47th in least HR/9....Zach Duke 51st

 

I'm fairly content with the RH relievers sans maybe a closer, but Burke Badenhop(4th) and Joba Chamberlin(44th) are the only other FAs in the top 50 of least HR/9.

 

that was 1 stat I wasn't even considering. but nice research. got me thinking

on the RH pitcher.

[Balta1701]

This has kinda morphed into a bullpen thread so I'll bring this up here.

 

Last year Hahn brought in a bunch of guys that didn't give up the long ball. If that philosophy (If it was indeed a philosophy) continues then none of K-Rod, Romo, or Janssen make sense. All rank in the "top" 20 in HR/9, Gregerson comes in at 60th while pitching predominately in a pitchers ballpark.

 

Conversely, Andrew Miller ranked 47th in least HR/9....Zach Duke 51st

 

I'm fairly content with the RH relievers sans maybe a closer, but Burke Badenhop(4th) and Joba Chamberlin(44th) are the only other FAs in the top 50 of least HR/9.

I feel like Hr/9 is a number that bounces around fairly often for starters, so just intuitively I'd guess that there's a ton of variation in HR/9 for relievers from year to year. Am I wrong in that assessment?

[witesoxfan]

I feel like Hr/9 is a number that bounces around fairly often for starters, so just intuitively I'd guess that there's a ton of variation in HR/9 for relievers from year to year. Am I wrong in that assessment?

 

You are not wrong. There are guys who are going to limit or be prone to home runs, but as is true with ERA for relievers, it can take one or two bad performances to really morph that number from something great to something terrible. I mean, Francisco Rodriguez has a pretty standard HR/9 of 0.83 and HR/FB of 9.9% for his career, and that comes after the 1.85 and 23.3% he put up this year. Which is more likely to be accurate, the outlier that still is following a trend (as it was worse in 2013) or the career rates of one of the best relievers of this generation? I would guess the latter. It doesn't mean it won't ever be a concern, but I think Rodriguez would be worth a look, personally.

[Whisox05]

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/11/13/lev...-andrew-miller/

[LDF]

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/11/13/lev...-andrew-miller/

 

I don't know, its a Levine story.

 

but if it comes to past and it is true. I won't be disappointed. the sox brass have way

more resources than us.

[Rooftop Shots]

I don't know, its a Levine story.

 

but if it comes to past and it is true. I won't be disappointed. the sox brass have way

more resources than us.

 

As I mentioned in the V-Mart signing thread. I know that it makes for fun conversation and speculations (and I am guilty of it as well) ...But geeeez thats all we here from EVERYWHERE about how we are showing INTEREST in someone. Can we actually count HOW MANY times we have heard that on big name guys but never sign them? Sure Abreu is an exception. But all the hype of Smardjiza, Panda, V-Mart, Kemp,Miller, Scherzer etc tc etc Forget it. We have a HISTORY of when Key people in their prime are on the market that somebody ELSE always ponies up and we alk away with squat. I don't mean to be a nay-sayer......but geez this goes back to the KW days of hearing about getting aggressive with Cabrera and Hunter and coming up empty. Then when the PRIME Candidates are all signed with someone else, then we try and get the leftovers and HOPE like heck that they have a good year to GET BY WITH. SELDOM do we ever do nothing more than HEAR of showing INTEREST by ("the human caskets with arms and legs such as Levine and Phil Rogers) but in reality seldom make signings (plural) where we can be looked at as ("WOW do the Sox look impressively lethal"). Sorry about my attitude right now. But geeeez ...ONCE again we hear from sox front office in the media about how they are going to be aggressive in the off season....and watch more key people go by the way side. Plus, still a littled pissed about V mart. I dont care about his age. Julio Franco wasnt NEAR the hitter Vamrt was and played well into his 40's. V Mart seldom strikes out and is a CONSISTENT contact hitter and a good clubhouse guy, and would be a LETHAL 1-2 punch with Abreu and put a huge dent in Detroit as well. So... Mr Hahn........ don't be like your predecessor KW and TALK about being agressive and competitive. Shut the mouth, open the wallet and use the pen....and BACK up with "action" the hope that you give the fans through your media hypes. ( I may be ay out of line with some of my comments......but at the same time...look at out history and some comments have some real validity to them. HYPE/INTEREST/PURSUING year in and year out while we watch others turn lethal and we struggle to break 500 every year

.

[witesoxfan]

It's not a bad thing to be involved or interested in these players and end up not signing them because they end up getting an absurd amount of money elsehwere. The Sox offered 5/$75 to Hunter and LAA offerd $90 mill. The Sox had what appeared to be the top offer on the table for Miguel Cabrera, but the Tigers willingness to take on Dontrelle Willis helped them seal that deal. These things happen and suggesting that the Sox have missed out on them because other teams are willing to risk more is OK.

 

Having no sources whatsoever, I've predicted that the Sox would be involved in both Victor and Miller and that they'll ultimately back out because the price will be too expensive. I also think they'll look into the Dodgers outfield situation and discuss moving Alexei, though I ultimately do not believe he will be moved. You identify holes and realize that the Sox are also in a more conservative mode right now where they won't break the bank on players they do not believe will be impact players for them 2-3 years down the road.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

As I mentioned in the V-Mart signing thread. I know that it makes for fun conversation and speculations (and I am guilty of it as well) ...But geeeez thats all we here from EVERYWHERE about how we are showing INTEREST in someone. Can we actually count HOW MANY times we have heard that on big name guys but never sign them? Sure Abreu is an exception. But all the hype of Smardjiza, Panda, V-Mart, Kemp,Miller, Scherzer etc tc etc Forget it. We have a HISTORY of when Key people in their prime are on the market that somebody ELSE always ponies up and we alk away with squat. I don't mean to be a nay-sayer......but geez this goes back to the KW days of hearing about getting aggressive with Cabrera and Hunter and coming up empty. Then when the PRIME Candidates are all signed with someone else, then we try and get the leftovers and HOPE like heck that they have a good year to GET BY WITH. SELDOM do we ever do nothing more than HEAR of showing INTEREST by ("the human caskets with arms and legs such as Levine and Phil Rogers) but in reality seldom make signings (plural) where we can be looked at as ("WOW do the Sox look impressively lethal"). Sorry about my attitude right now. But geeeez ...ONCE again we hear from sox front office in the media about how they are going to be aggressive in the off season....and watch more key people go by the way side. Plus, still a littled pissed about V mart. I dont care about his age. Julio Franco wasnt NEAR the hitter Vamrt was and played well into his 40's. V Mart seldom strikes out and is a CONSISTENT contact hitter and a good clubhouse guy, and would be a LETHAL 1-2 punch with Abreu and put a huge dent in Detroit as well. So... Mr Hahn........ don't be like your predecessor KW and TALK about being agressive and competitive. Shut the mouth, open the wallet and use the pen....and BACK up with "action" the hope that you give the fans through your media hypes. ( I may be ay out of line with some of my comments......but at the same time...look at out history and some comments have some real validity to them. HYPE/INTEREST/PURSUING year in and year out while we watch others turn lethal and we struggle to break 500 every year

.

 

I feel "almost" the same way. I temper it by telling myself it's early in the off season and there's a long way to go with a lot of money to spend . There are a lot of bad contracts out there given out by teams who over pay with resources the Sox don't have.

 

It's wait and see time but if Feb. rolls around and Hahn's done squat then I'll let 'er rip . But yeah not thrilled with the idea of guys like Rasmus, Aoki , Butler and some of the other names out there. The best will always cost the most and most likely we'll be settling once again for the middle level pieces.

Edited November 14, 2014 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[LDF]

 

the signing of free agents that came and past and the plain in-activity can be nerve

wrenching. however some has to remember there are teams with contracts that they

can not get rid of, b/c teams rush in to these contracts. the sox contract, Danks was

b/c of a injury so I am not counting that here.

 

sox are slow in signing who we thought they should. maybe it was a good deal, maybe

it wasn't, maybe it was not part of the team plans. I rather have to sox error on the side

of caution than not. as long as they make improvements, hopefully major additions.

 

there is a lot of time left.

[GreenSox]

I'm not a big fan of chasing bullpen pitchers, but this guy is the best of this crop, imo.

[AlSoxfan]

The best will always cost the most and most likely we'll be settling once again for the middle level pieces.

My biggest fear, always on the cheap an expect to compete

 

[LDF]

I'm not a big fan of chasing bullpen pitchers, but this guy is the best of this crop, imo.

 

I too am not a fan of spending lots of money on a closer. esp when the sox can

use that money to really focus on something else.

[peppers312]

we need some bullpen help and BAD. the Sox blew SO many games last season late in the games. you look at our bullpen the year we won it all our bullpen was rock solid. Cotts and Politte posted sub-2.00 ERAs all year. Marte and Vizciano were steady. and the mix of Shingo, Hermanson, Jenks held down the 9th.

 

last year, our bullpen was inconsistent. too many hits and too many walks. they showed flashes, but to me it seemed like we were missing a piece or two. maybe it was over-use from having to pitch more often because our #4 and #5 starters were garbage and the pen had to make up the difference...

 

in any case, getting a guy like Miller would be a huge addition. the price tag is probably too high for Hahn though.

 

 

[witesoxfan]

Shingo was awful in 2005. Also, the idea that steady is used to describe Damaso Marte in 2005 is funny. He was wild and inconsistent and it seems his ERA was as good as it was because guys like Politte and Cotts would come on and strand the runners he put on. It's hard to forget about the ALDS where he walked the bases loaded and El Duque came on and worked out of it.

 

It's not impossible to turn a bullpen around, but using the 2005 White Sox as a reason to spend a lot of money on the bullpen is reverse logic - the 2005 White Sox bullpen proves that bullpens can pull flukes out of their rears in any given year, because the bullpens were bad in both 2004 and 2006 with pretty much the same pitchers in the bullpen.

[southsider2k5]

Shingo was awful in 2005. Also, the idea that steady is used to describe Damaso Marte in 2005 is funny. He was wild and inconsistent and it seems his ERA was as good as it was because guys like Politte and Cotts would come on and strand the runners he put on. It's hard to forget about the ALDS where he walked the bases loaded and El Duque came on and worked out of it.

 

It's not impossible to turn a bullpen around, but using the 2005 White Sox as a reason to spend a lot of money on the bullpen is reverse logic - the 2005 White Sox bullpen proves that bullpens can pull flukes out of their rears in any given year, because the bullpens were bad in both 2004 and 2006 with pretty much the same pitchers in the bullpen.

 

I really feel like the end of the bullpen is in place. We have guys to be long relievers, middle relievers, and maybe even set up men. The problem in 2013 was that they were all asked to do jobs above their paygrade by a level or two.

 

If we find good guys for the back end of the pen, guys like Petricka, Putnam, and company all slide back an inning or two, and will be in much better shape.

[caulfield12]

I really feel like the end of the bullpen is in place. We have guys to be long relievers, middle relievers, and maybe even set up men. The problem in 2013 was that they were all asked to do jobs above their paygrade by a level or two. If we find good guys for the back end of the pen, guys like Petricka, Putnam, and company all slide back an inning or two, and will be in much better shape.

 

Last year I think you mean.